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GDB · 2011-01-21, 13:27

Been a while since I played it, but I thought that was only because it contained elements that no longer existed. I mean, he can replicate a conceptual weapon like Rho Aias, but not a cone-spiral sword? All it does is spin and exude a lot of power.

RadiantBeam · 2011-01-21, 13:33

Well, that was really just my own assumption about it. I don't think the VN ever gives an explicit reason for why Shirou can't trace Ea, it just says that he can't. I'd have to play back through the scene to see if more was said.

Haak · 2011-01-21, 13:39

Gilgamesh stated that he wouldn't be able to copy it but Shirou then flatly denied that aswell as his assertion that "No imitation can beat the orinigal".

Nasu has long habit of establishing rules, and then break them with a sledgehammer.

Heroslayer · 2011-01-21, 13:42

Quote:

Been a while since I played it, but I thought that was only because it contained elements that no longer existed. I mean, he can replicate a conceptual weapon like Rho Aias, but not a cone-spiral sword? All it does is spin and exude a lot of power.

Yes but there has to be a reason that spinning like that creates so much power. He can't understand what's going on inside the weapon like he can with a conceptual weapon (though from what I understood Rho Aias is basically the limit to what he can copy as it was "Archer's greatest projection" or something of the sort).

Cherry_Lover · 2011-01-21, 13:54

No, Shirou can't even comprehend Ea. When he sees it in Fate, he freezes up.

dragon20990 · 2011-01-21, 14:30

When I said he could put noble phantasms, I was thinking more along the lines of their abilities then the actual swords like how durandal can grant 3 miracles and such. When I say magic storing, I don't mean raw magic, but having it function like a magical crest,containing the spells of the wielder. And I never said Shirou made the sword by himself. He couldget help from Rin, or Zeltrech, or Even Blue (A super blade with her powers is a scary thought). Also, Shirou can do more then just copy as we've seen Archer turn swords into arrows. And if he knows over a hundred different ways to manually forge noble phantasms, who says he can't use that knowledge for more then simply copying into something more like synthesizing? I'm just saying the potential is there. I recall a fanfic where Shirou learned alteration magic I believe.

RadiantBeam · 2011-01-21, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon20990

When I said he could put noble phantasms, I was thinking more along the lines of their abilities then the actual swords like how durandal can grant 3 miracles and such. When I say magic storing, I don't mean raw magic, but having it function like a magical crest,containing the spells of the wielder. And I never said Shirou made the sword by himself. He couldget help from Rin, or Zeltrech, or Even Blue (A super blade with her powers is a scary thought). Also, Shirou can do more then just copy as we've seen Archer turn swords into arrows. And if he knows over a hundred different ways to manually forge noble phantasms, who says he can't use that knowledge for more then simply copying into something more like synthesizing? I'm just saying the potential is there. I recall a fanfic where Shirou learned alteration magic I believe.

Then why not outline it as a short fic and post it here? It would a better impression of what you're saying, instead of just describing it.

Heroslayer · 2011-01-21, 15:33

Quote:

When I said he could put noble phantasms, I was thinking more along the lines of their abilities then the actual swords like how durandal can grant 3 miracles and such. When I say magic storing, I don't mean raw magic, but having it function like a magical crest,containing the spells of the wielder. And I never said Shirou made the sword by himself. He couldget help from Rin, or Zeltrech, or Even Blue (A super blade with her powers is a scary thought). Also, Shirou can do more then just copy as we've seen Archer turn swords into arrows. And if he knows over a hundred different ways to manually forge noble phantasms, who says he can't use that knowledge for more then simply copying into something more like synthesizing? I'm just saying the potential is there. I recall a fanfic where Shirou learned alteration magic I believe.

I'm pretty sure the abilities are a part of the Noble Phantasm. It's their history. You couldn't take the effect of Excalibur and apply it to another blade because then it wouldn't Excalibur. The history would be gone and the effect would disappear.

As for synthesizing, he has no talent for that. Archer can alter things yes, he's shown that with various weapons, but altering a function (from slashing to be more aerodynamic) is something completely different from taking elements and creating an effect. Not to mention the process probably eats up Prana like crazy.

We also have to remember that Archer has decades perhaps even centuries of practice over Shirou.

For help. I don't think they would be able to help. This magic something completely knew and unique to Shirou. The process while described to use is something that he understands only because of his odd and very specialized talents in magic. Structural scanning, Reinforcement and projection.

As for the magical crest thing, like I said it's a Mystic Code. It's something that has been invented in the Type Moon Verse.

Spoiler for Mystic Codes:

Flere821 · 2011-01-25, 21:22

Hi people, I found that the authors for In the Rain and Chaos Theory hang out in this thread and decided to come and keep an eye on it. Definitely looking to more updates of Chaos Theory (and to a lesser extent In the Rain) here

On another topic, anyone here read the FSN crossover In Flight? That's something I find to be on the same level as Chaos Theory at least, and a good read.
Another good FSN fic in my opinion is Fate/Black Reflection, even if it's a crossover with Bleach.

RadiantBeam · 2011-01-25, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

On another topic, anyone here read the FSN crossover In Flight? That's something I find to be on the same level as Chaos Theory at least, and a good read.

Hm, I've never read it before. Is it posted on FF.net?

Moczo · 2011-01-25, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

Hi people, I found that the authors for In the Rain and Chaos Theory hang out in this thread and decided to come and keep an eye on it. Definitely looking to more updates of Chaos Theory (and to a lesser extent In the Rain) here

... I like you. Welcome to the thread.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-25, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

... I like you. Welcome to the thread.

So you like anyone who sucks up to you?

Moczo · 2011-01-25, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

So you like anyone who sucks up to you?

Pretty much.

Erm, I mean... no. No, I'm not that shallow.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-25, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

Pretty much.

No wonder we don't get along.

Moczo · 2011-01-25, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

No wonder we don't get along.

You could stand to tell me how amazing I am a bit more often. Just throwing that out there.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-25, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

You could stand to tell me how amazing I am a bit more often. Just throwing that out there.

I'll compliment you when you do something that warrants complimenting.

Moczo · 2011-01-25, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

I'll compliment you when you do something that warrants complimenting.

Well, for me I've found that mostly just existing is enough, really. So, y'know, feel free to start any time.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-25, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

Well, for me I've found that mostly just existing is enough, really. So, y'know, feel free to start any time.

From where I'm standing you're just an annoying little ant eater with a cane.

Not much to brag about.

Moczo · 2011-01-25, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

From where I'm standing you're just an annoying little ant eater with a cane.

Not much to brag about.

A failure to recognize magnificence when you see it merely marks you as a mongrel. 'Twas my efforts which rose this thread from nothing to the glory it knows today and okay yeah I guess RB did a little bit too, So it is only proper that I be praised in it.

As the King, this thread belongs to me.

Kuroi Hadou · 2011-01-25, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moczo

A failure to recognize magnificence when you see it merely marks you as a mongrel. 'Twas my efforts which rose this thread from nothing to the glory it knows today and okay yeah I guess RB did a little bit too, So it is only proper that I be praised in it.

As the King, this thread belongs to me.

You know, I seem to recall shoving that drill-sword of yours up your gilded ass.

2011-01-21, 13:39	Link #583
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	Gilgamesh stated that he wouldn't be able to copy it but Shirou then flatly denied that aswell as his assertion that "No imitation can beat the orinigal". Nasu has long habit of establishing rules, and then break them with a sledgehammer. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2011-01-21, 13:27	Link #581
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Been a while since I played it, but I thought that was only because it contained elements that no longer existed. I mean, he can replicate a conceptual weapon like Rho Aias, but not a cone-spiral sword? All it does is spin and exude a lot of power.

2011-01-21, 13:54	Link #585
Cherry_Lover Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Age: 39	No, Shirou can't even comprehend Ea. When he sees it in Fate, he freezes up.

2011-01-21, 14:30	Link #586
dragon20990 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	When I said he could put noble phantasms, I was thinking more along the lines of their abilities then the actual swords like how durandal can grant 3 miracles and such. When I say magic storing, I don't mean raw magic, but having it function like a magical crest,containing the spells of the wielder. And I never said Shirou made the sword by himself. He couldget help from Rin, or Zeltrech, or Even Blue (A super blade with her powers is a scary thought). Also, Shirou can do more then just copy as we've seen Archer turn swords into arrows. And if he knows over a hundred different ways to manually forge noble phantasms, who says he can't use that knowledge for more then simply copying into something more like synthesizing? I'm just saying the potential is there. I recall a fanfic where Shirou learned alteration magic I believe.

2011-01-25, 21:22	Link #589
Flere821 Lurker Join Date: Aug 2010	Hi people, I found that the authors for In the Rain and Chaos Theory hang out in this thread and decided to come and keep an eye on it. Definitely looking to more updates of Chaos Theory (and to a lesser extent In the Rain) here On another topic, anyone here read the FSN crossover In Flight? That's something I find to be on the same level as Chaos Theory at least, and a good read. Another good FSN fic in my opinion is Fate/Black Reflection, even if it's a crossover with Bleach.