Hyouka - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Satoshi will accept her...he can't deny or escape the pressure in his heart... he'll accept her love...

This. Although in this show, nothing would surprise me. In any case, I think he will step out into the unknown, making himself vulnerable to the powerhouse of emotion and action that is Mayaka. I really, really want to see her reaction if he does. She'll probably remain just as sharp and aggressive toward him, lol, but with a tender edge.

You know, I can't really blame Satoshi for what he did -- and for hiding his attraction to Mayaka all along. He thought he had his life under control, was in a good place and on as good a path as was available to him. Uh, no. When he broke the chocolate heart, I don't think he was really refusing her, just awkwardly putting off the moment of reckoning. None of us is perfect. We all make mistakes. The thing is to eventually correct them.

[Jmac]

Satoshi, you just being wishy washy. Follow your feelings and everything will fall into place. Other than that, good episode.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

This. Although in this show, nothing would surprise me. In any case, I think he will step out into the unknown, making himself vulnerable to the powerhouse of emotion and action that is Mayaka. I really, really want to see her reaction if he does. She'll probably remain just as sharp and aggressive toward him, lol, but with a tender edge.

You know, I can't really blame Satoshi for what he did -- and for hiding his attraction to Mayaka all along. He thought he had his life under control, was in a good place and on as good a path as was available to him. Uh, no. When he broke the chocolate heart, I don't think he was really refusing her, just awkwardly putting off the moment of reckoning. None of us is perfect. We all make mistakes. The thing is to eventually correct them.

I personally thought that he breaking the heart was freighted with symbolism (Oreki himself flags it), and I can't be so optimistic about his character. Letting Chitanda get so upset, while standing around doing nothing? Only fessing up to Oreki until he was threatened with physical violence? His obvious problems with jealousy, where it seems as if he would almost prefer a friend stay mired in indifference, rather than grow and find a measure of happiness? I dare say there's something decidedly callous about how self centered Satoshi can be, and I'm not sure this is a characteristic he'll grow out of.

I don't think Satoshi hurts others out of malice, and if there are no costs to himself he'll help others, but he seems emotionally broken to me in some profound way.

[Hyper]

My gut feeling is Satoshi will reject Mayaka again. Don't get me wrong, I hope he say yes to her, but going by my impression of his character and the general theme of Hyouka, I think he is too afraid of being in a relationship with a serious girl like her. I mean, Mayaka is the polar opposite of what he becomes. She is passionate and not afraid to lose. He fear (too much, I'll add) about hurting himself and Mayaka if they become a couple. He said it was a joke, but I think if not for Eru showing up he might secretly push Mayaka to actually switch her target to Houtarou. He might be more relieve that way.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

This. Although in this show, nothing would surprise me. In any case, I think he will step out into the unknown, making himself vulnerable to the powerhouse of emotion and action that is Mayaka. I really, really want to see her reaction if he does. She'll probably remain just as sharp and aggressive toward him, lol, but with a tender edge.

You know, I can't really blame Satoshi for what he did -- and for hiding his attraction to Mayaka all along. He thought he had his life under control, was in a good place and on as good a path as was available to him. Uh, no. When he broke the chocolate heart, I don't think he was really refusing her, just awkwardly putting off the moment of reckoning. None of us is perfect. We all make mistakes. The thing is to eventually correct them.

In the end it seems like Satoshi tried to repeat last year with far less success. Trying to avoid having to accept the chocolate without having to reject Mayaka's feelings. Didn't work out so well this time around.

The situation changed. Chitanda became involved, couldn't use the same excuse, and Houtarou has developed as a person as well. This time trying to push back having to deal with this lead to him having to explain it to Houtarou. I really hope Satoshi can figure out where he's going to go from here. Be nice for Satoshi and Mayaka to end up happy somehow and someday.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

In the end it seems like Satoshi tried to repeat last year with far less success. Trying to avoid having to accept the chocolate without having to reject Mayaka's feelings. Didn't work out so well this time around.

The situation changed. Chitanda became involved, couldn't use the same excuse, and Houtarou has developed as a person as well. This time trying to push back having to deal with this lead to him having to explain it to Houtarou. I really hope Satoshi can figure out where he's going to go from here. Be nice for Satoshi and Mayaka to end up happy somehow and someday.

The previous year's refusal on the grounds the chocolate wasn't made from scratch was also just lame. Seriously?! Why not just say he's not ready for a relationship back then? A lot of what Satoshi has done reeks of self-centered cowardice.

He doesn't mean ill, but he does ill, and a theme that comes up in Hyouka is the complicated connection between a person's motivations and their acts. With the exception of the film arc, where he makes the mistake of avoiding the question of motivation altogether, Houtarou generally figures out what happened, but not necessarily why (the festival arc, for example). And he *acts* correctly with Chitanda, although he doesn't understand his own motivations for doing so--and is even more clueless about hers. But it works out--because he *acts* well. Satoshi *intends* well, but acts in a disastrous manner, hurting his friends, because it's like he can't help himself--even though, unlike Houtarou, he more or less understands his own motivations. The guy's a fascinating character, and helps make the series as special as it is, but in my view, he's as fascinating as he's unlikable and infuriating.

[NoemiChan]

If Satoshi will reject her again... he's the dumbest male tsundere out there...

[Kaoru Chujo]

A new campaign runs October 2-15 involving Hyouka, Lawson convenience stores, and Asahi Beverages: the "Asahi Beverages x Hyouka x Lawson Kanyasai." You buy an Asahi beverage at a Lawson's and get a number on your receipt that you can register on line to build up points that get you prizes such as a script signed by the seiyuus, special goods (Houtarou's special blend of coffee, Satoshi's yellow bike, Eru's wooden rice bin, Mayaka's how-to-draw-manga kit) -- all of those presented at a special ceremony with the seiyuus -- a special 3D poster, a special Hyouka x Lawson phone strap. I guess the timing is to correspond with sale of the BD/DVDs, even though the series first TV run will be over. Can I hope for a second season?

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Can I hope for a second season?

Hope it'd be a "married life" season....

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

The previous year's refusal on the grounds the chocolate wasn't made from scratch was also just lame. Seriously?! Why not just say he's not ready for a relationship back then? A lot of what Satoshi has done reeks of self-centered cowardice.

I think you're being a bit too hard on him. He's just trying to come up with a way to avoid rejecting Mayaka outright. Also, there's no guarantee that him telling Mayaka the truth (i.e. telling her the same thing he told Oreki) would go over much better than an outright rejection. Some people on this thread have taken Satoshi's reasoning to just be a cover for him being wishy-washy - Who's to say that Mayaka wouldn't do the same?

That being said, I think when he called Mayaka at the end of this episode, he did tell her much the same thing that he told Oreki. I think he probably told her that he's not ready for a relationship yet. So at least Oreki's talk with him managed to get Satoshi to realize it's time to address the issue front-on, because it's clearly not going away (as perhaps Satoshi hoped it would after rejecting Mayaka's chocolate the year before).

[linkinstreet]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Hope it'd be a "married life" season....

Have fun waiting. Discounting the special ep 11.5, it has been years since the writer wrote anything for Hyouka. With only vol 5 available KyoAni won't have any materials to do a 2nd season, and no, KyoAni usually won't make their own storyline if they are adapting

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by linkinstreet

Have fun waiting. Discounting the special ep 11.5, it has been years since the writer wrote anything for Hyouka. With only vol 5 available KyoAni won't have any materials to do a 2nd season, and no, KyoAni usually won't make their own storyline if they are adapting

0.16 years. The author wrote a short story in July's Wildnerness Era this year. No word on the next story.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by linkinstreet

Have fun waiting. Discounting the special ep 11.5, it has been years since the writer wrote anything for Hyouka. With only vol 5 available KyoAni won't have any materials to do a 2nd season, and no, KyoAni usually won't make their own storyline if they are adapting

The current series covers roughly 4 vols, right? I think I've read speculation that it's at least plausible they could do a movie for the last vol, but a second season doesn't sound like it's in the cards.

[linkinstreet]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

0.16 years. The author wrote a short story in July's Wildnerness Era this year. No word on the next story.

yeah forgot about that. but even that was a prequel right? Perfect for an OVA or two, but nothing to close the story

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by linkinstreet

yeah forgot about that. but even that was a prequel right? Perfect for an OVA or two, but nothing to close the story

Regardless, it does mean that the author is continuing to write in the series. We do not know if he will put the franchise on a higher priority and write more in a quicker pace to allow for a second season to be animated. Other sources have indicated that he wishes to continue writing the series for a while, so it is unlikely that he will stop any time soon.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think you're being a bit too hard on him. He's just trying to come up with a way to avoid rejecting Mayaka outright. Also, there's no guarantee that him telling Mayaka the truth (i.e. telling her the same thing he told Oreki) would go over much better than an outright rejection. Some people on this thread have taken Satoshi's reasoning to just be a cover for him being wishy-washy - Who's to say that Mayaka wouldn't do the same?

Allowances of course should be made for being a teenager, but Satoshi rejected the first chocolate on the grounds it wasn't *good enough*; only home-made chocolate was good enough for him. Maybe he didn't intend to imply this, and simply used the first dumb idea to pop into this brain (?!), but how can Mayaka not take this as saying she isn't trying hard enough? So she tries harder and comes back with the home-made chocolate. Which he then deliberately sabotages.

Yes, Mayaka is abnormally direct and aggressive, but Satoshi's a *really* smart guy. He could stay home from school. Pretend it's all a joke. Run away really fast. None of these methods would require the emotional tell-all he gave Oreki (and which he might very well have done in the phone call), but would still be refusals, albeit ones that didn't cause as much awkwardness as what he did. Instead, he comes up with two really humiliating and hurtful ways to refuse the gift.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

Allowances of course should be made for being a teenager, but Satoshi rejected the first chocolate on the grounds it wasn't *good enough*; only home-made chocolate was good enough for him. Maybe he didn't intend to imply this, and simply used the first dumb idea to pop into this brain (?!), but how can Mayaka not take this as saying she isn't trying hard enough? So she tries harder and comes back with the home-made chocolate. Which he then deliberately sabotages.

Yes, Mayaka is abnormally direct and aggressive, but Satoshi's a *really* smart guy. He could stay home from school. Pretend it's all a joke. Run away really fast. None of these methods would require the emotional tell-all he gave Oreki (and which he might very well have done in the phone call), but would still be refusals, albeit ones that didn't cause as much awkwardness as what he did. Instead, he comes up with two really humiliating and hurtful ways to refuse the gift.

Honestly, "pretending it's all a joke" and "run away really fast" have their own major pitfalls. The former could prove very hurtful itself, while the latter could prove quite infuriating (especially to someone like Mayaka).

"Staying home from school" might be ideal, but then it presumes both that there wasn't anything going on at school that day which Satoshi needed to be there (such as a test, for example) and also that Satoshi had foreknowledge of Mayaka planning to give him the chocolate.

If Mayaka surprised him with the first chocolate, then I can see how Satoshi could have been left scrambling for a way to reject it without rejecting Mayaka herself.

Honestly, I really can't fault Satoshi for how he handled the initial chocolate rejection. He had no good options there, at least in his own mind.


Now, sabotaging the latest chocolate - I agree with the idea that this was cowardly on Satoshi's part, but I think that he sincerely thought it would hurt Mayaka less than him rejecting the chocolate again and/or rejecting her outright. I also think that Satoshi was a bit surprised at how strongly Chitanda reacted to it, which probably left him feeling guilty (hence the call to Mayaka).

[Hyper]

Or maybe those weird ways of rejecting were meant to double as challenges for Mayaka. Eru just got caught in the crossfire. He may half-hoping that she'll finally get tired of him and move on. Instead, she is even more determined, and that both make him happy and at the same time frightening for him even more.

[Skane]

Mayaka enlists Kaho's help.

Satoshi: "Game... over."

[Warm Mist]

A lot of the discussion could be summed up in what Oreki told him at the end of the episode.

"You're good at what you do, but you need to work on how you do it."

Maybe it's this comment what ended pushing him to call Mayaka.