2010-01-02, 13:37 | Link #501 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Why? Again, the red is not dependant to "what the person believes". The red truth can only be invoked if it is the absolute truth. By this definition, Erika cannot state something that is wrong, even if she believes it is true. Otherwise, she would have been gagged like Battler or Beato in Episode 4. The last riddle is nothing but again a tricky wordplay, otherwise, the concept of the red truth collapse for this kind of mistake. It can't be otherwise. That might be a clue for "shkanon", but it can also be a giant red herring. Before being obnoxious, saying if anyone has read episode 6, I would like you to read again the arguments given so far.
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2010-01-02, 13:40 | Link #503 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Unless there were more dead people before the meeting... which seems unlikely at this time.
A variation to Shannon=Kanon is that Shannon has mutiple personalities: she escapes the neighboring room, switch to Kanon to save Battler, then switch back to Shannon and hides in the closet/under the bed.
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2010-01-02, 13:46 | Link #507 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Actually the problem is not Shakanon theory is true in EP6, the problem is whether this is also true in other episodes.
My position is that only in EP6, Shakanon theory holds, in other episodes, it is just a red herring (or Ryukishi07 did not deliberately wrote that Battler never saw the two at the same time in the beginning, it was a mere coincidence. Just that after some readers pointed this out, he made this a red herring). Only in EP6 there was hint about Sayo killing Yoshiya and Yoshiya having the courage to profess to Jessica. WHile at the same time in EP6 Erika never saw Yoshiya actually. THus, there were no some unbelievable cloth-changing involved. In other episodes, since Battler and Erika saw either one of them alternately, this entailed ridiculous cloth-changing and make-ups, so Shakanon theory in other episodes was not implausible. And if you believe in Ryukishi07, will you foresee that he would break up GeorgeXSayo and JessicaXYoshiya afterall by validating Shakanon theory in other episodes? No. So, once again, without love, the truth cannot be seen. TRUST RYUKISHI07!! |
2010-01-02, 13:47 | Link #508 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Instead of saying "17th" (17人目), they say "17 people" (17人), while 人 is used here for "counting humans" (unless I'm mistaken). Because of this, either circumstances are clearly different between the basis of Erika and BB's claims, or they are talking about things totally different. However, because both are in red, their statements are true, that cannot be contested.
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2010-01-02, 13:57 | Link #510 |
Radiant as the sun;
Graphic Designer
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He's very original and what he wants is to make us brainstorm countless theories, and then in the end totally surprise us with something unexpected and different from what we thought. So, everything is possible. In the end, everything will eventually make sense. Or almost everything. xD
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2010-01-02, 14:08 | Link #511 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Quote:
The biggest problem is how to figure the "pattern" and "triggers" in that mad island of Rokkenjima. Even if you have that 2 persons as 1, it doesn't explain everything as you said. To be honest, I didn't care one bit about the number of humans on the island in Episode 6. The problem is how ep5 and ep6 confirmed that there is a giant plot, with people playing dead. But more importantly, Ep5 and Ep6 introduce the fact that cousins do that as well, which is very hard to grasp (especially Jessica, Maria and Battler). The reason behind such situation is obviously linked to the culprit(s?) motive, but it doesn't help regarding the motives of the victims to do that charade. Which is actually a bother, because Episode 1-4 have a distinctly different pattern for the first six. And it isn't a conjuncture, because of Erika's red.
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2010-01-02, 14:31 | Link #512 |
Kupo
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sleeping
Age: 32
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Right, it kind of disturbed me how easily he was able to formulate situations where "Person X helped/played dead". Why are so many people able to help stage the murder? Why do they want to help? What's the purpose of staging a murder?
...oy I'm just too mindfucked to even think about anything yet (especially a way around Shkanon, because that's just not a good solution in my mind). I need a few days
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2010-01-02, 15:04 | Link #513 |
Blue Wizard
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The problem if you count multiple personalities as different persons is that you would have to add a Beatrice personality in Shkanon. ^^
Unless it's something like soulmates count as one. Or Kanon is Asumu's son , so his real name is Battler therefore there are 2 Battler's who are Rudolf's son on the island and you could count them as one since officially Rudolf has only one son named Battler? <Ok this is totally twisted> |
2010-01-02, 15:54 | Link #516 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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It just makes me wonder how often people play dead. The only time we know for sure it can't happen is when Beato confirms their status in red or not. EP 5 and 6 were a little obvious with it. EP 5 Erika didn't even check the wounds and EP 6...well lets just say that after what she did I can't even defend anymore like I use to.
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2010-01-02, 16:00 | Link #517 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Oh, and for the last time, red truth is not "subjective", it is "literal". It means nothing more or less that what it actually says.
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2010-01-02, 16:32 | Link #519 | |
Blue Wizard
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I see what you mean. (I think) So for example : Kanon might be Asumu's son; his real name is then Ushiromiya Battler. We have two Ushiromiya Battler on the island. But officially there is only one. Therefore you could pass them for the same person, since "person" was never defined! |
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