Nanoha StrikerS - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[Comartemis]

Pardon, it's not "Bridge Over Troubled Waters", it's "Through Troubled Waters" by Akuma-sama. And it's not an AU; it's canon-compliant up until the very tail end of StrikerS because the author started writing before episode 25 had been subbed, so there was no Adult!Vivio and there was no splitting up of RF6 afterwards. He hasn't yet mentioned what did happen in his version, but I think he'll probably get around to it sooner or later. He also says he's going to make Teana get over her inferiority complex even if Vita has to beat it out of her, something I'm looking forward to.

Spoiler for Best Part of Chapter 1:

“Nanoha isn’t that bad,” Fate protested.

Hayate snickered. “And here we have the girlfriend defending her lover…”

Fate grew crimson. “Wh—Wha…No! We’re…I mean…” she stammered awkwardly.

Hayate blinked, and Fate almost heard the gears rolling around inside her head. “Wait… are you saying… you’re saying you’re… not? Not lovers, I mean? I mean… I just…everyone just assumed…”

“We’re just friends,” Fate protested.

“Who sleep in the same bed?” Hayate pressed. “And I’ve seen what you wear to sleep.”

“It’s just a habit we got into when she was hurt. And I like lingerie.”

“Who take showers together?”

“Not very often—and it’s more convenient—”

“Who have a child together?”

“Vivio isn’t—I mean—”

“Who kiss in front of everyone during the inauguration party?”

“She was drunk!”

“You weren’t.”

Prologue and Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3 (still in progress)

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Pardon, it's not "Bridge Over Troubled Waters", it's "Through Troubled Waters" by Akuma-sama. And it's not an AU; it's canon-compliant up until the very tail end of StrikerS because the author started writing before episode 25 had been subbed, so there was no Adult!Vivio and there was no splitting up of RF6 afterwards. He hasn't yet mentioned what did happen in his version, but I think he'll probably get around to it sooner or later. He also says he's going to make Teana get over her inferiority complex even if Vita has to beat it out of her, something I'm looking forward to.

Spoiler for Best Part of Chapter 1:

“Nanoha isn’t that bad,” Fate protested.

Hayate snickered. “And here we have the girlfriend defending her lover…”

Fate grew crimson. “Wh—Wha…No! We’re…I mean…” she stammered awkwardly.

Hayate blinked, and Fate almost heard the gears rolling around inside her head. “Wait… are you saying… you’re saying you’re… not? Not lovers, I mean? I mean… I just…everyone just assumed…”

“We’re just friends,” Fate protested.

“Who sleep in the same bed?” Hayate pressed. “And I’ve seen what you wear to sleep.”

“It’s just a habit we got into when she was hurt. And I like lingerie.”

“Who take showers together?”

“Not very often—and it’s more convenient—”

“Who have a child together?”

“Vivio isn’t—I mean—”

“Who kiss in front of everyone during the inauguration party?”

“She was drunk!”

“You weren’t.”

Prologue and Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3 (still in progress)

LOL
Now I remember the fic, that scene was priceless

I read it time ago, it is posted at ff.net too, but the last update was back in May

Is a good fic, I hope that the author keeps writing this... but at least I can read what is done of chapter 3 in the meanwhile (since it isn't in ff.net), so thanks Comartemis.

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[RadiantBeam]

As I learned early on that StrikerS was 26 episodes compared to the original 13-episode format of Nanoha and A's I came into it with differen expectations. In general a shorter series gets you quicker because it doesn't have the time to build things up and make the plot complicated; in the case of StrikerS, however, they had this chance.

On that note, I immensely enjoyed StrikerS; I loved it just as much as I loved the original Nanoha and A's. The role of Nanoha as a mother was extremely sweet, and Vivio was the most adorable thing. The Fowards were well characterized, with the exceptions of Caro and Erio near the end, as I felt they got a little shafted. Jail was a worthy villian to the story, right on par with Precia in my mind.

The season wasn't without its shortcomings; I was paticularly displeased with the lack of characterization for Lutecia, Zest, and Agito (seeing the three of them more would have been awesome) and even the Numbers felt a little flat to me (even now I can't remember who is who with the exception of a few). The plot had its holes, but every plot usually does.

Overall, I enjoyed StrikerS. So, I give it an 8/10. It was really good, but it could have been better.

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

As I learned early on that StrikerS was 26 episodes compared to the original 13-episode format of Nanoha and A's I came into it with differen expectations. In general a shorter series gets you quicker because it doesn't have the time to build things up and make the plot complicated; in the case of StrikerS, however, they had this chance.

You hited the point, they had the chance, but they didn't used it

And to the people discuysing about NanoFate, in the 3 seasons, never, and I say never, is anything pointing at a Yuri relation between Nanoha and Fate, the fans are the ones who craeted that concept

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

You hited the point, they had the chance, but they didn't used it

I think the biggest problem in StrikerS wasn't so much that they didn't use the chance to have 26 episodes to build up a plot, but rather they tried to use it too much. Honestly, 26 isn't a very big number to begin with. I get the feeling that the producers wanted to do a lot more with StrikerS (at least I think they did, since they introduced Lutecia, Zest, and Agito early on and Ginga getting brainwashed), but in the end they didn't really have the time or the episode number to make it all come together.

That was a problem with StrikerS; you got a feeling that the plot was supposed to be bigger than it actually turned out to be.

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

And to the people discuysing about NanoFate, in the 3 seasons, never, and I say never, is anything pointing at a Yuri relation between Nanoha and Fate, the fans are the ones who craeted that concept

Spoiler for Spanish:

En el hilo de relaciones ya se ha discutido y rediscutido esto ^^U
Si es verdad que hay indicios por todos lados de su relación, no hay prueba concluyente de que sea real, ni tampoco hay nada que lo deniegue, por lo que cada quien es libre de pensar lo que sea. Considerando que el fandom de NanoFate es uno de los fandoms yuri más grande del mundo (si es que ya no es el más grande) no era de esperarse menos del estudio ^^

Take care and keep smiling

[Evil Rick]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I think the biggest problem in StrikerS wasn't so much that they didn't use the chance to have 26 episodes to build up a plot, but rather they tried to use it too much. Honestly, 26 isn't a very big number to begin with. I get the feeling that the producers wanted to do a lot more with StrikerS (at least I think they did, since they introduced Lutecia, Zest, and Agito early on and Ginga getting brainwashed), but in the end they didn't really have the time or the episode number to make it all come together.

That was a problem with StrikerS; you got a feeling that the plot was supposed to be bigger than it actually turned out to be.

Someone bring a bottle of Champagne, this member couldn't say it better

Originally Posted by BPHaru

Spoiler for Spanish:

En el hilo de relaciones ya se ha discutido y rediscutido esto ^^U
Si es verdad que hay indicios por todos lados de su relación, no hay prueba concluyente de que sea real, ni tampoco hay nada que lo deniegue, por lo que cada quien es libre de pensar lo que sea. Considerando que el fandom de NanoFate es uno de los fandoms yuri más grande del mundo (si es que ya no es el más grande) no era de esperarse menos del estudio ^^

Take care and keep smiling

Spoiler for :

Eso dije, cada fan puede decidir tener su Yunoha, su NanoFate o la pareja que más prefiera dado que en el anime no se confirma nada

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Someone bring a bottle of Champagne, this member couldn't say it better

Heh, thank you.

It was just a feeling I got while watching the show, honestly; like they meant to do more, but in the end they couldn't.

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

Spoiler:

Eso dije, cada fan puede decidir tener su Yunoha, su NanoFate o la pareja que más prefiera dado que en el anime no se confirma nada

Spoiler:

Pero no es como si el anime no guiará a la pareja de NanoFate tampoco, después de todo eso es lo que vende aunque aún no lo hayan confirmado de manera absoluta.
Dado el escenario de StrikerS emparejar a Nanoha y Fate con otros personajes puede resultar complicado después de visto lo visto, pero los fans son libres de hacer lo que quieran y modificar el universo a su antojo si así lo desean para incluir hombres en la relación o lo que quieran ^^

Take care and keep smiling

[Comartemis]

Alright, let's move the NanoFate conversation into the Relationships thread before this goes any farther.

[9taileddemon]

Wow. This was fascinating to read. I have not seen a battle like this for awhile. (I arived at animesuki after all of the huge wars had finished.) Its like watching a train wreck, horrible and yet you can't look away. At least you guys used logic unlike a lot of other battles.

I think there could have been less NanoFateVivio moments as well and I would have preferred more FateErioCaro moments.

However, I think that if you want more FateErioCaro there were a lot of other things that could have been removed that people would have cared less about their removal. Like maybe one of the training episodes or the whole 3 brain council stuff that nobody cares about.

Stuff like that.

Since the whole Fate-mama thing ended up getting axed by 7arcs in soundstages to more Fate-sister, it probably could have been toned down.

However it was so adorable watching it. Hmm. I don't need anyone else. I can go around in circles and battle myself quite easily. Damn multiple personalites.

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by 9taileddemon

Since the whole Fate-mama thing ended up getting axed by 7arcs in soundstages to more Fate-sister, it probably could have been toned down.

I think this that's mostly a rumor than anything else, in my opinion it's an open scenario as always, yours interpretation of the track doesn't need to be that pessimist, that's only the worst case scenario, but you can interpret the track in other ways, even positive ones . This was discussed at music thread IIRC, so you can check the backlog there if you want. If you ask me, nothing has changed at all ^^

And yes, the happy family moments were so adorable~

Cuídense y sigan sonriendo

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I think the biggest problem in StrikerS wasn't so much that they didn't use the chance to have 26 episodes to build up a plot, but rather they tried to use it too much. Honestly, 26 isn't a very big number to begin with. I get the feeling that the producers wanted to do a lot more with StrikerS (at least I think they did, since they introduced Lutecia, Zest, and Agito early on and Ginga getting brainwashed), but in the end they didn't really have the time or the episode number to make it all come together.

That was a problem with StrikerS; you got a feeling that the plot was supposed to be bigger than it actually turned out to be.

Hmm, well I partially agree here. They did try to do too much, or rather they tried to do too much in a separate fashion. All the plotworks that should have been linked unraveled by the end to become their own separate plot points.

I do disagree that 26 isn't a big number. 26 is a big number, and more then enough to properly introduce all the characters and their plot points. If done in the right way. Several characters should have been cut or have their screentime reduced to face-fillers. Like I said, Vice's sub plot added nothing to the story and took up valuable screentime, which would have been far better used at developing Fate/Erio/Caro in the first half, and Jail and the numbers in the second half.

[Nightengale]

You guys sure know how to give one a headache for a return gift.

26 episodes is only a problem when you pace the series the way it is. Even in the Sound Stages, some of the filler scenes really drag out unnecessarily, even if they have the freedom of doing so since it's sound-only. To be fair, the pacing of StrikerS was not horrible, but it had no need to do the way it was done either. Repetitive foreshadowing, glossing tricks and structuring only works when you're dealing with a really large scale and a lot of intrigue, but StrikerS doesn't even scratch that in terms of plot and world-building. For one, did we even need the scene where they explained the history of how Jail got the Cradle and the prophecy discussions? The former barely shed anything to add to the depth of the conflict other than 'lol Belka' and the latter just piled 30 tons of bricks called 'horrible leadership and nepotism' on Hayate.

I refer to Toward the Terra for an example of a series that, with more than twice the scale of Nanoha in terms of epic, world-building and character development (( over 30 characters )), did everything it failed to do in merely 24 episodes. And it's not like it had horribly fast pacing either, but rather it understood how to prioritize story-boarding.

Judging StrikerS from a whole script (( from the anime material to the Sound Stages )), other than Jail/Brains, it's quite well-written. A lot of characters undergo interesting growth, and minor characters have elements of characterization to them that stands out, even if low in development. Keroko's points of NanoVivio-Fate-ErioCaro have their points left and right. Now, barring subjectives of what one prefers over another, there's a clear lean that horribly ruins both aspects of story-telling, one oversaturated and ruining the mood of the execution as a whole while the other undersaturated and demeaning the presence of both one who is well developed, even if disregarding the one who went through little development.

There's really no denying that much, unless you're blind, illiterate or never went through middle-school literature classes.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

You guys sure know how to give one a headache for a return gift.

To an Outer Cadia no Khrack Meister like yourself, it's just small change I suppose.

[Vivio Testarossa]

Originally Posted by Evil Rick

You hited the point, they had the chance, but they didn't used it

And to the people discuysing about NanoFate, in the 3 seasons, never, and I say never, is anything pointing at a Yuri relation between Nanoha and Fate, the fans are the ones who craeted that concept

Sure, yuri isn't the "selling theme" of Nanoha, unlike Mariamite, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist as you say...

In season 1, Nanoha wants to save Fate no mater what (even when others would of abandoned Fate)

Nanoha goes on about how beautiful Fate's eyes and hair are...

They both blush in each other's presence...

Therefore, NanoFate exists!

[Evangelion Xgouki]

Originally Posted by Vivio Testarossa

Sure, yuri isn't the "selling theme" of Nanoha, unlike Mariamite, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist as you say...

In season 1, Nanoha wants to save Fate no mater what (even when others would of abandoned Fate)

That's not 100% true. Nanoha's initial intention towards Fate was to discover why she was also out to gather the Jewel Seeds. After several skirmishes it changed to find out why Fate was so hostile and locked into that mindset rather than wanting to team up or at least talk (mind you this is a 9-year-old not an adult). It was only after Arf talked with her and the TSAB that she discovered the chains that bound the girl to Precia and wanted to free her from them.

Originally Posted by Vivio Testarossa

Nanoha goes on about how beautiful Fate's eyes and hair are...

Actually, Nanoha refers to the girl with 'sad eyes' and for someone who was raised in Japan natural blond hair is an unusual sight. For girls to remark that another is 'beautiful' or 'cute' or 'pretty' is not unusual in casual conversation regardless of age.

Originally Posted by Vivio Testarossa

They both blush in each other's presence...

Blushing, especially in anime, is not isolated to romantic feelings. The use of redness in the cheeks can be used for a variety of emotions/physical states like romance, tiredness, drunkenness, embarrassment, happiness, innocence, etc. For Fate, her interaction with other people outside of Precia and Arf is extremely limited, if not non-existent. To have such a sudden change like making a friend, especially after trying to kill them, would bring out a mix of feelings like embarrassment and happiness. For Nanoha, the blushing is possibility of showing that, regardless of all she's been through, she's still a child at her core. It also emphasizes her happiness of being able to save Fate and become friends rather than enemies with her in the end. Not to mention she cries, in which red cheeks is a common aspect.

Originally Posted by Vivio Testarossa

Therefore, NanoFate exists!

The engineer has reviewed your proposal and handed it back scribbled with red corrections

[BPHaru]

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

The engineer has reviewed your proposal and handed it back scribbled with red corrections

But you can also interpret the scenes as Vivio said, so both are right ^^

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[Tempy]

At nine years old, romance is hardly a topic a child that would truly understand beyond puppy love, crushes, and cooties. While they understand what love is, they cannot differentiate between platonic, romantic, familial, and other kinds of love. Perhaps in the future, when they are older and wiser, but at this point in life friendship would be the biggest and most likely condition I see these kids turning to.

Unless, of course, the two are exceedingly mature for their age, behaving at the mid-to-late teen developmental stage. This however, seems exceedingly unlikely and frankly, just plain silly to make Nanoha and Fate of all people far more advanced than their contemporaries. They may be magically skilled and intelligent, but that does not make them superior to other humans in ever aspect. In all the children I've worked with, I've met plenty of very intelligent kids, but very few emotionally advanced ones. And no, I'm not going to accept "but it's an anime!" as a counterargument.

From my POV, I can't accept evidence of their emotional states as hints of a budding love. Also, I agree with all of Eva's points.

[BPHaru]

Yeah, it's not very realistic, but this is anime, and that happens often there and in manga, or at least more often than IRL.

Have you already seen Hito Ni Yasashiku and Sekai wa kagayaku? Those are pretty good doujins if you ask me ^^

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