AnimeSuki Forums

Mad Pierrot · 2013-08-25, 19:50

That confused me more than the Nen XD

Eragon · 2013-08-28, 03:48

Whoever made that chart needs a better hobby >.>

I didn't read more than 6 words of it, btw.

Mr. DJ · 2013-08-30, 16:00

seems like a fair explanation

Guernsey · 2013-08-30, 17:09

Agreed. I dropped bleach but ti still bothers me that it should had stayed anime ghostbusters as opposed to being that shonen. Kubo didn't have to focus on every Soul Society and cahracters at the cost of the core (Renji, Chao, Orihime and Uryuu) cast but it is a Japanese manga for Japanese fans so I cannot judge it. The Japanese Bleach fans really like the Soul Society characters so they get more focus.

Mad Pierrot · 2013-11-06, 14:45

I think one big problem is that Kubo is afraid of focusing on human relationships. I mean the death of Ichigo's mother could have been worse if we had actually seen her talking with Isshin. I think the only reason we had that flashback was to explain Ichigo's true zanpakuto was the hollow. Ichigo and Rukia had a strong bond early in the series but now the friendzone is super strong. Ichigo's current comrades are shinigamis he barely talks to.

While I know many complain the female characters have it really bad I think Hitman Reborn treated them far worse. (no, seriously, try liking a female character there)

Mr. DJ · 2013-11-08, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Agreed. I dropped bleach but ti still bothers me that it should had stayed anime ghostbusters as opposed to being that shonen. Kubo didn't have to focus on every Soul Society and cahracters at the cost of the core (Renji, Chao, Orihime and Uryuu) cast but it is a Japanese manga for Japanese fans so I cannot judge it. The Japanese Bleach fans really like the Soul Society characters so they get more focus.

sounds like Kubo should have went the Young Justice route.

Ichigo, Renji, Orohime, Rukia, Chad, Uryuu = Young Justice that takes care of lower to mid level threats

Gotei 13 = Justice League that takes care of bigger threats

Guernsey · 2013-11-09, 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

sounds like Kubo should have went the Young Justice route.

Ichigo, Renji, Orohime, Rukia, Chad, Uryuu = Young Justice that takes care of lower to mid level threats

Gotei 13 = Justice League that takes care of bigger threats

That would be a good thing except that it is shonen and shone is all about battle and what not. That is actually a good idea though, Gotei 13 could deal with the big threats while Young Justice could deal with the little threats.

GDiddy · 2013-11-10, 21:51

I don't read too much shonen manga....but I swear to god that this is the only series that I've read that the mangaka continues to crap on EVERYONE in the cast just to amp up certain characters. And the only series in which the creator pretty much throws the main cast aside to focus more on the supporting cast.

I wish SJ would just cancel this already.

Knjaz · 2013-11-14, 02:55

Nice, structured explanation.

Eragon · 2013-11-14, 21:31

Spoiler for Bleach manga chpater something-something:

Tornado The Dragon · 2013-12-18, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jays

2. The introduction of the Vizards and Shinji. It's redundant no matter how you look at it. The "new mysterious transfer student" thing wears thin after the first time. Furthermore, their participation up to now just blows, like why even make all of them, if you are never going to do anything with them.

6. Ichigo's lack of character development. You'd figure that after assaulting two places, (Soul Society, Las Noches) he'd get the picture that you simply can't win with the idea of "wanting to save your friends". Zaraki, Dordoni, and Grimmjow have all said that his attitude is the reason why he is weak, because he never fights for himself. If he always relies on the feelings and situations of other people, how the hell can he ever defeat anyone? But I might be wrong about this one.

Your other points are good but I just want to focus on these 2. Even in this final arc the vizards are getting brushed aside by the token characters. Its too late to save the viards face now even if the other don't screw up that badly.

Ichigo is the 3rd worst protag that I have read in shonen. I did have a discussion with 2 other people before about this one of them is very much in fanboyism with the Ichigo character unfortunately.

Tornado The Dragon · 2013-12-18, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernsey

It is the series greatest attribute and the series greatest folly.

True.

Quote:

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

this is what went wrong in bleach. an explanation like this is needed to describe the main character's power...

Spoiler:

This is pretty good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

sounds like Kubo should have went the Young Justice route.

Ichigo, Renji, Orohime, Rukia, Chad, Uryuu = Young Justice that takes care of lower to mid level threats

Gotei 13 = Justice League that takes care of bigger threats

omg this would have been perfect.

Deal with menos like gillians to adjuchas level. While the captains deal with vastro lorde level threats.

I have thguht of this since after the ss arc. Good to know I'm not the only one.

Kurohane · 2013-12-18, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

this is what went wrong in bleach. an explanation like this is needed to describe the main character's power...

This is nice. Who made this?

itachi-san314 · 2013-12-19, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurohane

This is nice. Who made this?

unfortunately i have no idea

Tornado The Dragon · 2013-12-25, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

Chad should have taken over the fullbring arc. instead they are all just useless like rukia now

I know. When Chad's power was revealed back in HM and then FB arc came along I thought I was in for something sweet. And then shit hit the fan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

It was also annoying how Rukia is becoming the series' Yamcha next to Sado since she has been beaten several times.

And well this. But then again there is always a "Yamcha" of any series almost mind you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Butcher

Main problem with Bleach is its character cast. THERE ARE TOO DAMN MUCH!

The reason why I can't bring myself to like most of them is due to the miniscule panel time they get.

Agreed. Btw aren't you the same person on that other forum? One that shall not be named?

AnimeFan188 · 2015-11-07, 23:23

Whatever Happened to Bleach?:

"Bleach, on the other hand, is a full-blown has-been, a shell of its former
self that subsists on the memory of its glory days. It is well past its
expiration date, yet it continues to grind on, sluggishly approaching its
conclusion on a seemingly parabolic trajectory. The manga's volume
sales have dwindled, the anime was cancelled several years ago, and
many former fans have just flat-out given up on it. How did things come
to this?"

See:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feat...-bleach/.95031

The article contains an interesting analysis of what went wrong with
this series.

itachi-san314 · 2015-11-09, 22:49

^that's a pretty harsh article. I agree with it but it's kind of depressing lol. They could have at least mentioned the Isshin flashback or some of the random good parts in this current arc. They also ignored the TBTP arc when discussing the arrancar saga.

seiftis · 2015-11-10, 10:31

I am probably the only one who stopped reading and watching Bleach as I got annoyed with Ichigo. To me he's the most boring one of all others. Just spam him with defeat-training-super power up each time like a typical, boring shonen manga. Make him as if he's trying hard to appear cool all the time. All the mary-sue elements as well.

i have only read the few chapters again recently as Ichigo and his gang are not the current main focus. Yay for nanao and shunsui.

itachi-san314 · 2015-11-10, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by seiftis

I am probably the only one who stopped reading and watching Bleach as I got annoyed with Ichigo. To me he's the most boring one of all others. Just spam him with defeat-training-super power up each time like a typical, boring shonen manga. Make him as if he's trying hard to appear cool all the time. All the mary-sue elements as well.

i have only read the few chapters again recently as Ichigo and his gang are not the current main focus. Yay for nanao and shunsui.

I agree. Ichigo and friends are all horrible characters. They have little to no character arcs and never do anything original, creative or interesting. Even when given a huge window to do something interesting like Inoue in Arrancar Saga, Chad in Fullbring and Ishida in the current arc, they all still manage to do nothing somehow. It's always been the side characters who make this story interesting.

Kafriel · 2015-11-10, 12:59

I actually really enjoyed the original cast of Ichigo, Ishida, Inoue and Chad, even in their school life time. Ichigo was intriguing because, unlike so (sooooo) many other protagonists, he's not a complete idiot who acts first and thinks later, he doesn't have a huge dream or any kind of great responsibility (like becoming #1 in his world, the boss of an organization, god, etc.) and almost all of his fights were to save one of his friends (Rukia, Orihime, Chad and now Ishida). While it's true that they've done next to nothing, Orihime is a very weak character, so it wasn't surprising that she did nothing against Aizen. Chad's arc was a true disappointment though... (remember back before HM when Ichigo blocked his direct and Chad was all "you can't ignore me nao!" well, GG)

IMO BLEACH stopped being as good as it used to be when the HM arc kicked off - the whole vizard story gave the finger to the previously established power levels, just in order to make the arrancar look stronger by comparison. One of my favorite fights of that arc was Kira vs Abirama Redder. They were both relatively weak, but it felt true to the mood of a war, with Kira mercilessly beheading his opponent while establishing his own character at the same time.

As for the current arc...the quincy are all boring as shit. Zero division was okay (just okay), Ichigo's new powers raise a whole ton of questions, even while answering some that people have had for a long time, and the biggest flop of the arc is the Soul King entity: doesn't talk, doesn't quite live, doesn't think...shouldn't exist.

2013-08-28, 03:48	Link #1062
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	Whoever made that chart needs a better hobby >.> I didn't read more than 6 words of it, btw. __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2013-08-30, 17:09	Link #1064
Guernsey The GAP Man Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Agreed. I dropped bleach but ti still bothers me that it should had stayed anime ghostbusters as opposed to being that shonen. Kubo didn't have to focus on every Soul Society and cahracters at the cost of the core (Renji, Chao, Orihime and Uryuu) cast but it is a Japanese manga for Japanese fans so I cannot judge it. The Japanese Bleach fans really like the Soul Society characters so they get more focus. __________________

2013-11-10, 21:51	Link #1068
GDiddy Sisterhood of the Desu Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: in a van by the river	I don't read too much shonen manga....but I swear to god that this is the only series that I've read that the mangaka continues to crap on EVERYONE in the cast just to amp up certain characters. And the only series in which the creator pretty much throws the main cast aside to focus more on the supporting cast. I wish SJ would just cancel this already. __________________

2013-11-14, 21:31	Link #1070
Eragon Still Alive Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Somewhere far far away Age: 30	Spoiler for Bleach manga chpater something-something: Kubo kept writing after Aizen's defeat __________________ Signature courtesy of rikikai

2015-11-10, 10:31	Link #1078
seiftis ~defying fate Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bodhum	I am probably the only one who stopped reading and watching Bleach as I got annoyed with Ichigo. To me he's the most boring one of all others. Just spam him with defeat-training-super power up each time like a typical, boring shonen manga. Make him as if he's trying hard to appear cool all the time. All the mary-sue elements as well. i have only read the few chapters again recently as Ichigo and his gang are not the current main focus. Yay for nanao and shunsui. __________________ Escaping reality

2013-08-25, 19:50	Link #1061
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 33	That confused me more than the Nen XD

2013-08-30, 16:00	Link #1063
Mr. DJ Schwing! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Central Texas Age: 39	seems like a fair explanation

2013-11-06, 14:45	Link #1065
Mad Pierrot Corrupted fool Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: I'm everywhere Age: 33	I think one big problem is that Kubo is afraid of focusing on human relationships. I mean the death of Ichigo's mother could have been worse if we had actually seen her talking with Isshin. I think the only reason we had that flashback was to explain Ichigo's true zanpakuto was the hollow. Ichigo and Rukia had a strong bond early in the series but now the friendzone is super strong. Ichigo's current comrades are shinigamis he barely talks to. While I know many complain the female characters have it really bad I think Hitman Reborn treated them far worse. (no, seriously, try liking a female character there)

2013-11-14, 02:55	Link #1069
Knjaz Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Latvia, Riga	Nice, structured explanation.

2015-11-07, 23:23	Link #1076
AnimeFan188 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	Whatever Happened to Bleach?: "Bleach, on the other hand, is a full-blown has-been, a shell of its former self that subsists on the memory of its glory days. It is well past its expiration date, yet it continues to grind on, sluggishly approaching its conclusion on a seemingly parabolic trajectory. The manga's volume sales have dwindled, the anime was cancelled several years ago, and many former fans have just flat-out given up on it. How did things come to this?" See: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feat...-bleach/.95031 The article contains an interesting analysis of what went wrong with this series.

2015-11-09, 22:49	Link #1077
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	^that's a pretty harsh article. I agree with it but it's kind of depressing lol. They could have at least mentioned the Isshin flashback or some of the random good parts in this current arc. They also ignored the TBTP arc when discussing the arrancar saga.

2015-11-10, 12:59	Link #1080
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	I actually really enjoyed the original cast of Ichigo, Ishida, Inoue and Chad, even in their school life time. Ichigo was intriguing because, unlike so (sooooo) many other protagonists, he's not a complete idiot who acts first and thinks later, he doesn't have a huge dream or any kind of great responsibility (like becoming #1 in his world, the boss of an organization, god, etc.) and almost all of his fights were to save one of his friends (Rukia, Orihime, Chad and now Ishida). While it's true that they've done next to nothing, Orihime is a very weak character, so it wasn't surprising that she did nothing against Aizen. Chad's arc was a true disappointment though... (remember back before HM when Ichigo blocked his direct and Chad was all "you can't ignore me nao!" well, GG) IMO BLEACH stopped being as good as it used to be when the HM arc kicked off - the whole vizard story gave the finger to the previously established power levels, just in order to make the arrancar look stronger by comparison. One of my favorite fights of that arc was Kira vs Abirama Redder. They were both relatively weak, but it felt true to the mood of a war, with Kira mercilessly beheading his opponent while establishing his own character at the same time. As for the current arc...the quincy are all boring as shit. Zero division was okay (just okay), Ichigo's new powers raise a whole ton of questions, even while answering some that people have had for a long time, and the biggest flop of the arc is the Soul King entity: doesn't talk, doesn't quite live, doesn't think...shouldn't exist.