2008-12-03, 17:57 | Link #223 | ||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Justin's "Silvergun" seem much closer to performing a Resonance than what Stein does, but there's too little info on that to say. Quote:
But that was after Soul helped bring out her "latent potenial". My point is B*S's Wavelength had been at similiar size from the beginning, not that Maka's own Wavelength wouldn't grow overtime. Quote:
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Besides, B*S being able to attack with his Wavelength is what separates him from Maka with her Demonslayer Wavelength and Soul Perception. and Kid with his Shinigami powers. The three are meant to develop differently, and will likely end up equal in the end. Quote:
Last edited by Iron Maw; 2008-12-03 at 18:24. |
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2008-12-03, 20:58 | Link #224 | ||||||||
Radical Dreamer
Join Date: Apr 2008
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BTW: It's perfectly possible (I'd even say probable) that Black☆Star's soul wavelength at the beginning was less than Maka's current soul wavelength, but still greater than the average person's. Quote:
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Spoiler for Manga spoiler, I guess.:
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Also, the ability to release a soul wavelength unarmed requires a strong soul wavelength, which she now possesses, and the ability to pay careful attention to one's own soul. Black☆Star has had the former from the beginning and does the latter naturally by virtue of his egomaniacal megalomania, but Maka seems to be starting to fit the bill in her own way too. Maka does have a large soul wavelength now, and as for sensing her own soul, well... We've seen Maka look at her own soul in the Crona fight, and there have been incidents later too, ESPECIALLY in the Clown arc, where we see Maka's awareness of her own soul. Moreover, Maka has a very capable Soul Perception which she can use to look at herself. Plus we've seen her release her own soul wavelength now (and that was practically an attack by itself, the way it blew crap out of the way), so it really seems to me like she's only a short step away from being able to fight unarmed now. |
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2008-12-03, 22:41 | Link #225 | |||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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B*S used a Ninja Blade which like a Short Sword so, using a Sword later won't be too new to him, and it's more Tsubaki's ability than his. Quote:
His true power is seen when he's with her not without, whether he will is ever admit that is another story. Also during the Clown arc, after getting "Demon Hunter" She look like some one who had truly gotten her confidence back in her own power for the first time since her first fight with Crona. This was possible thanks to Soul. Quote:
Last edited by Iron Maw; 2008-12-03 at 23:06. |
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2008-12-04, 00:01 | Link #226 | |||||||
Radical Dreamer
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Only when if you can point out where Black☆Star's soul release does anything remotely close to this. Spoiler for No spoilers in this pic really - just a picture of Maka's soul wavelength causing a big shockwave.:
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What I'm saying is that she should be capable of launching soul wavelength attacks now or pretty soon. Spoiler for manga:
What I'm saying is that Maka does get dragged into fights where she uses her bare hands, and sometimes she does this of her own will. The fight with Chrona, for instance, was one she could have completely avoided. Quote:
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Of course, I don't deny that he's better off with Tsubaki, at all. I'm just saying he's plenty strong without her too. Quote:
EDIT: Woops. forgot to comment here. What I meant to write here is that I agree she'll possibly use it like Stein's, but I'd also like to point out that Stein's method includes Black☆Star's. Last edited by Stream; 2008-12-04 at 14:02. |
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2008-12-04, 03:12 | Link #228 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Soul doesn't have any training in fighting, he pretty much sucks at it and he should. But we have seen him use his form to fight with, and he can transform pretty quickly.
I simply don't understand why Maka, with her natural disadvantages, would not want to learn how to use one of her natural abilities to her benefit. It doesn't make sense. Even "That's how much she hates Papa" doesn't follow, since she can tolerate him better than rejecting what she inherited from him would suggest. Shibusen is unlikely to care unless she starts eating souls. You can say that she can be stubborn and reckless, and I won't disagree, but those are in-the-moment things. She can be impulsive, but she's too serious to sustain stupidity for .. eh.. days? Weeks? Certainly not years. The SE world is changing under her feet and she knows it. Even if she started out not wanting to use an ability she has, she'd be super-stupid to not be beginning to use it now. Quote:
Is this right: 'Maka wouldn't be fast enough to use her Weapon as defense in a fight, proof is Soul's not that good, but if she finds herself in another major pinch she might break through her barrier to find yet another totally new thing and it will be *this*!' ---how I'm reading it. But the only truly new thing Maka has gained in a pinch was the Soul Perception. Everything since then has only been building on what is already there. Her bases are Soul Perception/ Resonance/ Black Blood, every new ability is rooted in those. Or am I forgetting something? Honestly, the burden here should be on you to better explain (if you care to) what evidence you can show that suggests Maka could be a Weapon. I discount the other theory (Maka doesn't know) for the same reason I discount her willful refusal for the same single reason: a total lack of any suggestion, hint, tease, or bit of evidence that it's possible for a Weapon to never use/not know what they are and that Maka could be such a person. Seriously, I love fan theories, but some are just fun musings, others spun of thin air, and don't have much to do with canon. I like them when they're presented and treated that way. There are also theories that seem to answer questions nicely and may be possible, but there's no good reason to believe it yet, there may be other answers. I see the Maka-as-Weapon theory as the former, unless I'm missing some clues from the manga or something. If there were some tease in the canon to support the theory, I'd accept it as a valid possibility. Can point me to some? I would be interested In addition, does the plot seem to need her to be revealed as a Weapon? She seems to be doing fine without it. BTW, if your position is that Maka's not a weak useless character, I totally agree with you. She has a place in fights, and it's not just hanging out in the back waiting for a chance to unleash some UBER:not-a-real-fighters-technique technique. But I just don't get the Weapon theory, I think it's distracting from the talents she DOES show. Quote:
Hehe, this doesn't have much to do with the subject I think? But I'm not sure SE is really just a generic shounen action series. I've read my share, and I'd put SE closer to FMA than Bleach. The series is plot driven, the fights are a part of the story. The plot doesn't exist just to give a framework to have fights. SE is a really smart shounen that alters/cuts out a lot of the generic-fight type crap. I get the sense Okobu is trying to write the kind of smart shounen he wanted to read, and we love it because of that. Quote:
Maka's issues had revolved around her feelings of inadequacy, not exclusive to the physical. She didn't believe she had resolve, inner strength, dedication, courage, wisdom, ect, in addition to ability to fight with the scythe. After the Italian incident, she felt she didn't compare to Soul - not his physical strength (something he's never demonstrated), but the other types of strength she credited him with. She had built up this idea of him and didn't meet up to it herself. That was part of her problem back then. And she doesn't want to go toe-to-toe vs B*S, let alone unarmed. It's not her deal, she knows it. edited to add, sorry: I wouldn't interpret her temper-punches as a desire to fight major enemies unarmed. It's an outlet of anger and frustration, not a planned fighting style. With B*S, she was just trying to settle a dispute the way the boys often do it. She chose not to take him up on his duel offer. She tried punching Crona because attempts to cut didn't do anything, while at least punching had an effect of slowing/bewildering Crona even if it wasn't a fight winning move. It's not enough. I guess I had thought you meant she wanted to go solo because of her 'I need to get stronger' stuff after Italy. Sorry. I got the Free fight stuff below. On an off-topic aside since this is the Maka/Soul thread: I expect her negative self-feelings derive in a major way from the way Spirit treated her family. She was shown from a young age that no matter how much she was loved by her Papa, it wasn't enough to stop his family-damaging behavior. His love for her and her mother didn't outweigh whatever was driving his womanizing. She may not think "I'm not worth enough to my father for him to try to meet my needs" but it's terribly common in real world psychology for children from families like hers to have that subconscious belief unknowingly driving her sense of self-worth. Since Okubo appears to have put alot of thought into the psychology of the story, I think Maka's self-feelings make sense. But she doesn't show so much hatred or spite to her Papa that it seems realistic she's shoving aside something like Weapon ability. She could seriously spurn him but she doesn't because she still hopes he'll become the father she wants. She's hoping sometimes angry treatment of him will prompt him to behave better. (proof- the way she looked through her child photos/ the way Soul realizes Maka's love for reading came from Spirit's encouragement/ her willingness to accept his post-exam gift (before she opened it!)/ her willingness to ask him out on the date, it was just a stupid bet and she's stubborn enough she could have refused to honor it.) Quote:
I know most series DO pigeonhole characters (typical fighter crap), but SE is smarter than that. Seems to be too smart even for its fans, judging by how long it took people to accept the Weapons=genetics thing IMO B*S is the most obvious pigeonholed character- in a magical/soul-based world like this one, what is a muscle-based guy gonna do? Brute force doesn't win the cake here. But his role is pretty interesting, in a typical fighter he'd be the main character, he's be kicking butts, he'd be the assassin who can keep his mouth shut, ect... and here he isn't. Meanwhile, Maka's the main girl, but she's not one of those girls who needs to hide in the safe corner. She can, and is willing, to take a beating when it's involved in what she wants. Quote:
I didn't like them cutting the Tsubaki bit, but I really disliked them toning down the crazy fight. BONES doesn't have the guts that Okubo has- to show the main female character going disturbingly out of her gourd. When I first read the manga, I was totally blown away by how we never see such a thing, so explicitly, but there it was. It was almost hard to look at, which made it awesome. It's why SE is smart. I had thought BONES just wimped out, but adding it with the other cuts I think they just like drama too much. Make Maka seem weaker, makes it more tragic for the boys around her when something happens to her. I don't think it's screentime balance, it's attitude tuning. BONES probably thinks she is more sympathetic if she seems more vunerable, which is sad. I could see this: they think the audience (boys) will like her better if she's weaker. But are they right? Western fans don't seem to agree, but its not made for us. My first real complaint about the anime, I guess. Quote:
I got the impression that in the end of that fight, Maka was influenced by the new insanity of the BB. Free even says something to the effect of how insane she must be. She definitely felt the post-BB change in resonance, then. Add the effect to her determination and desperation.. well... Going unarmed wasn't typical of her. Probably she does secretly wish she were a fighter of B*S's type, but it's not a goal. Sorry, I know I addressed some stuff, probably repeated some of what was already said today, long class/work days suck. I should have read the rest more before I started this I'd rather see some interesting discussion about SE, even if its disagreements or just telling each other what we all already know in new ways... then the usual type posts that happen Last edited by JunkKitty; 2008-12-04 at 03:23. Reason: because I just read something interesting |
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2008-12-04, 03:34 | Link #229 | |||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Ex, if Jackie was asked to perform the technique instead of lighting burning out the snake, fire would. This hinges on of course if only a unique ability available to Marie. Quote:
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Maka might be able to attack with her Wavelength but, certainly looks like it will be in another fashion. Quote:
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Against Medusa, he stands more of a chance having Tsubaki then by himself. Quote:
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Last edited by Iron Maw; 2008-12-04 at 03:48. |
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2008-12-04, 16:30 | Link #230 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Radical Dreamer
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Whee!
I knew I picked a winner for starting a good, long discussion! It's a pity I have to defend the theory like it's fact though. :-/ O wellz, lets get going. Quote:
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Indeed. That's not the problem. Quote:
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Spoiler for Manga - Covers most of the Maka fights.:
What I'm pointing out right here is that Maka isn't so much reliant on her preexisting abilities as much as she just gains the strength to win the fight during the fight. Quote:
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Generic shounen action series is more or less a genre. As far as these types of action series are concerned, I like Claymore and Soul Eater the most. Quote:
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Agreed, all the way. Quote:
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Exactly, and Maka's soul wave surge was the most badass one we've seen. Quote:
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I think he'd fare well against Kilik without Tsubaki, imo. It'd be a match worth seeing. Quote:
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Fair enough, but the keyword is seems. We still have to find out if those issues have really been resolved. Plus, there are good odds that her new wavelength lets her pack a serious punch without soul now. Last edited by Stream; 2008-12-07 at 06:39. |
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2008-12-04, 18:21 | Link #231 | ||
World Inverse Creator
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Sorry , it's not because I don't respect all of your posts guys , but it's just too long for me. I'm not a fluent native speaker and my English was bad (especially reading and vocab) , so I'll just point to what I can give my theory to.
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Sometimes she isn't reckless , but she has miscalculation when thinking of strategies. (She has said this during her first meeting with Chrona "I'm way too careless")
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2008-12-04, 19:38 | Link #232 | ||
Radical Dreamer
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I agree with you on the rest. |
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2008-12-07, 08:33 | Link #235 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Reading, England
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Yumi uses a version it to stake out the Arachnaphobia base with senrigan (sp?) for she identifies the powerful of Mifune and the "monster" Mosquito, and Spirit recognises the increase in Asura's wavelength when the Kishin is freed. Also, his ability to affect both Stein and Medusa's wavelength with the sewing technique suggests that he has Soul Perception to some extent. |
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2008-12-07, 18:30 | Link #236 |
World Inverse Creator
Join Date: Aug 2008
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^ really? In my opinion her senrigan is due to her ability as a weapon. Also for Spirit's case , he controlled Stein's wavelength as well , as a weapon. But it doesn't mean they have that ability. Soul Perception ability is all about seeing into a person's soul , to look at the personality and all.
that's why I said , 'soul' and 'soul wavelength' are different. Also , Patty and Liz can use each other , doesn't mean they can do resonance. It's just because their wavelength matched each other. This weapon thingy sure is complex to describe. They are like mediator for their mesiter's wavelength , yet they have their own ability and wavelength too , so yeah .. I am not really sure about this. correct me if I'm wrong
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2008-12-07, 22:24 | Link #237 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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2008-12-10, 09:32 | Link #239 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Reading, England
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I would guess the two abilities go hand in hand, but differ between one individual and the next. So, what Stein and Maka can do is Soul Perception, as is Yumi's use of it. Maka's is apparently impressive amongst the kids, whereas at the other end of the scale you have Stein and Spoiler:
I'd argue that Spirit must have Soul Perception to some extent, given that to manipulate both Stein's and Medusa's wavelength he must be aware of their souls and their respective wavelengths. Also, it's said to be a skill of powerful weapons to alter their Technician's wavelength the way the sewing technique works; not just any of them, and we've only seen it in Spirit so far (which, given his Tech was Stein, I find curious to say the least). Possibly another indication - along with Yumi's precise mapping - of the power and abilities of the Death Scythe group (incidentally, Sid's phrasing when he compliments Asuza confused me...but anyway). |
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2008-12-10, 10:07 | Link #240 |
World Inverse Creator
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Wait wait wait. B*S can once feel Sid's presence through Tsubaki.
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Spirit and Yumi are Death Scythes , which it's possible that they are special from any of Shibusen students after eating those 99 bad souls and 1 witch soul. but...Soul perception ability isn't special then?? That's a bit disappointing Spoiler:
but still argue about Maka being a weapon. Actually it's for my egoism opinion , I want Maka keep struggling to keep stronger for the way she is , being a meister , not being a weapon or anything else. It just seems interesting to see her jealousy , or rather , her stubborn way of thinking 'I want to be stronger' while maybe some of you guys find it quite annoying. But for me , it makes her being on my top list of coolest girl I've ever seen in shounen manga. That goes same for Soul. His personality is quite mysterious. While I know Black Star indeed is self-centered and Kidd has his OCD yet mature , Soul is somtimes mature , but sometimes not. Sometimes he's calm , sometimes he's as freak as B*S.
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