Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[madmac]

"Comforting her" wouldn't satisfy me, I'd resent such an ending. She's done MORE than enough to deserve to find happiness. And if you plan to introduce alternate love interests, it would be much easier and much more logical to add those to Nagi's side (who already showed that she was susceptible to that in the past, e.g. with Ayumu's brother). People who fit her better.

Hina hasn't had any guys openly chasing her at this point, so you can't really say how she'd react. It's purely hypothetical. Nagi went on a date with a boy, treated him kindly, and calmly explained that she already had another love and wouldn't be seeing him again. Hina can only wish she had that kind of grace when it comes to dating, and she's the older one.

It's obvious that you're a huge Hina fan, and I respect that and all, but I can see there's no point in arguing with you. We'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

That's the thing. Except for the "I must care for and protect Milady", Hayate and Nagi have no bond, they have nothing in common. They're of different ages. They have different interests. They enjoy different things.

This, though, I find odd. Hayate and Nagi have an easy, relaxed companionship and are often seen conversing amiably about all sorts of random things. Hayate may not be an Otaku, but he's second only to Nagi when it comes to dropping anime references. Besides which, they both miss each other terribly when they're apart. Even if it's not love, I don't see how you can honestly argue that they don't enjoy each others company or have anything in common.

Hina's far too much like Hayate for my tastes. It makes their interactions about as entertaining as watching paint dry when Hina isn't getting all tsun tsun and making a mess of things. Which she does, frequently. That's just me, though.

but the leap to "this is the girl I love and want to spend my life with" in a romantic context seems very, very far to me.

Eh, if you say so.

When Maria suggested Hayate marry Nagi to pay off her debt, he had three objections.

1. I won't marry her for money.

This has already become a non-issue. Nagi is no longer filthy rich and his debt to her is more personal than financial.

2. I won't lay hand on a child.

This takes care of itself, given time. How much time is debatable.

3. There's no way a girl like her would like someone like me.

This is not exactly an insurmountable obstacle. I mean, it's just Hina redux, except Nagi has to wait an unspecified amount of time before it can work. Will Hina beat her to it? Maybe, but probably not, at least not by much. Hina's confession could even be the catalyst for Nagi taking action.

The way I see it, even if Nagi doesn't "win" she'll get her fair chance to compete on level ground with everyone else. Until Nagi is old enough to do so, nothing of any real consequence will happen. This way, no one auto-loses to Nagi because she's the little girl he has to protect, and Nagi doesn't auto-lose because Hayate doesn't see her as a woman. That's the real endgame, IMO.

[Game8910]

*walks in*
whats going on he-
*walls and walls of text*
its like we're back on the Royal Garden arc! so nostalgic!
*leaves*

[madmac]

Everyone has to get the girl debate out of their system once in a while. I'm all done though.

Instead, have a random twitter exchange from Hata:

Some Japanese Dude: 24巻のおまけ繋がりで、ナギが胸を大きくするために努力するってのは、どうですか？

Basically, "Dude! It's been 24 volumes! Are Nagi's boobs ever gonna sprout or what?

Hata: ナギはまだ13歳なので未来に希望が…

Nagi is still 13 years old. She has hope for the future...

Ah, good old Japanese fans, asking the important questions that need answering.

[GDB]

Rofl. 24 volumes may have passed, but they do realize it's only been 5 and a half months in-story, right? Combined with her likely poor nutrition from being a hikkikomori for so long, it'd be a miracle if she even got too much bigger than she already is.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by madmac

Everyone has to get the girl debate out of their system once in a while. I'm all done though.

Instead, have a random twitter exchange from Hata:

Some Japanese Dude: 24巻のおまけ繋がりで、ナギが胸を大きくするために努力するってのは、どうですか？

Basically, "Dude! It's been 24 volumes! Are Nagi's boobs ever gonna sprout or what?

Hata: ナギはまだ13歳なので未来に希望が…

Nagi is still 13 years old. She has hope for the future...

Ah, good old Japanese fans, asking the important questions that need answering.

Well, someone has no issue with being a pedo.
Though her mother saying she was an 'E' says that it's going to happen someday.

[madmac]

Though her mother saying she was an 'E' says that it's going to happen someday.

I probably can't post that comic here, can I?

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by madmac

Nagi went on a date with a boy, treated him kindly, and calmly explained that she already had another love and wouldn't be seeing him again. Hina can only wish she had that kind of grace when it comes to dating, and she's the older one.

You miss my point. This very episode you're referring to (S2 ep05) showed how much fun Nagi had with a boy her age sharing her interests. Nagi realized how much she enjoyed the time she spent with him before she felt guilty for having so much fun which could be considered "cheating on Hayate", and after she calmly told Kazuki off and returned home, she was downcast that Hayate wasn't in the least bit jealous. She then snapped at Hayate angrily, and then got jealous on Maria for cheering Hayate up with a piece of pie.

What this episode showed that when meeting with someone who fits her better in age and interests, she's having a happier time. She's showing integrity by eventually rejecting it and returning to her fantasy world, but for me, this is a potential way for her to grow and progress. To grow by eventually realizing her self-delusion and progress by looking for someone who is less of a guardian/butler and more of an eye-level PARTNER.

This, though, I find odd. Hayate and Nagi have an easy, relaxed companionship and are often seen conversing amiably about all sorts of random things. Hayate may not be an Otaku, but he's second only to Nagi when it comes to dropping anime references. Besides which, they both miss each other terribly when they're apart. Even if it's not love, I don't see how you can honestly argue that they don't enjoy each others company or have anything in common.

Outside of their Butler-Lady relationship, I simply don't see Hayate and Nagi sharing any common ground. Nagi is playing games with Sakuya or Chiharu, debating anime with Wataru, or going on expedition trips with Ayumu, but not with Hayate. Here, Hayate fills the role of a tolerant parent overseeing someone given in his care, and not of a partner who wants to share a particular experience with his loved one out of his own interest.

Can all this change? Yes, of course. But it's quite a long way to go, IMHO. Finding Nagi a better match feels easier to me *shrug*

When Maria suggested Hayate marry Nagi to pay off her debt, he had three objections.

Actually, he had a little more than that. He made clear that he could never marry Nagi ^_^;

1. I won't marry her for money.

This has already become a non-issue. Nagi is no longer filthy rich and his debt to her is more personal than financial.

2. I won't lay hand on a child.

This takes care of itself, given time. How much time is debatable.

3. There's no way a girl like her would like someone like me.

This is not exactly an insurmountable obstacle. I mean, it's just Hina redux, except Nagi has to wait an unspecified amount of time before it can work.

There's a little bit more in addition to that. It would require a total reversal of their roles. It would require Hayate to develop any kind of romantic feeling for her (at the moment, there is demonstrably none of that).

Could it happen? Yes, naturally it could. It's still the canonic ending which I consider the most likely conclusion to the story, unfortunately. So, Nagi is still the big favorite going into the race

But I for my part can say that I'm quite happy with Hina quietly continuing to rack up karma points. I don't even insist on her getting Hayate. I insist on her getting rewarded in a happy ending for her.

Will Hina beat her to it? Maybe, but probably not, at least not by much. Hina's confession could even be the catalyst for Nagi taking action.

The way I see it, if Hayate no Gotoku is to end with a clear match, the winning girl would require to be accepted and officially sanctioned by at least the vast majority of the competitors. Therefore, if Hina were to win, it couldn't be her confessing to Hayate, it would have to be Hayate confessing to her. You see how far away from an ending I am? ^_^;

[Game8910]

im glad to see we havent forgotten Kazuki yet....too bad Hata prob has ;__;

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Mentar

The way I see it, if Hayate no Gotoku is to end with a clear match, the winning girl would require to be accepted and officially sanctioned by at least the vast majority of the competitors. Therefore, if Hina were to win, it couldn't be her confessing to Hayate, it would have to be Hayate confessing to her. You see how far away from an ending I am? ^_^;

Except for Athena, all of the other girls act as a team, thus any confession/choice would probably happen in a group setting, as a choice from all parties.
Maybe that's why Ayumu hasn't felt truly rejected, it's only been Hayate's refusal of her feelings, while the other girls seem to respect her for the courage.

Even in the the fan-imagining I plan on writing, it's only because the confessing/choosing is done as a group that Hayate finally learns from the brick-to-the-head.

I can see the group confession happening rather soon, several of the girls have realized their feelings and are able to talk about it to each other. How long it takes before Hayate responds depends on that. (Personally, I have Nagi demanding he make a decision before the end of the trip). Each of the girls will likely be willing to accept his choice, they know by now that by not accepting it, they'll only hurt Hayate, as well as lose ground on getting accepted themselves.

And in Hayate's eyes, he'll probably ask for Nagi's acceptance directly because she's the one he's promised to protect.

[madmac]

Actually, he had a little more than that. He made clear that he could never marry Nagi ^_^;

As a summary statement, sure...You'll note that Maria decided they could still come to like each other given time, but the debt was the biggest problem in her mind.

I simply don't see Hayate and Nagi sharing any common ground. Nagi is playing games with Sakuya or Chiharu, debating anime with Wataru, or going on expedition trips with Ayumu, but not with Hayate.

There's examples of them doing all of these things together...seriously. I do see your larger point, but it is what it is. Hayate will stop treating her like a child when she no longer is, or at least continues showing greater maturity.

Agh, I have no time for this.


Must...stop...replying...

[Rah]

Ah, I see that you guys are still over analyzing every single bit of information you can come across from the anime and manga and trying to bring it up from an objective perspective as well.

*sigh*

Yeah, right....

Anyway, the latest chapter was quite nice. Thumbs up for Hata and how he pushed a step forward Ayumu & Nagi's relationships. I don't believe for a second that Nagi's excuse to bring Ayumu back was a lie. She actually overcame her tsundere personality for a moment, and told her her true feelings.

:3

A nice step forward. And Ayumu is direct like always, though perhaps a little overreacting, because of the moment.

Also I'd like to add how Hayate managed to masterfully outwit Ayumu when she was trying to make him realize that it was her birthday. Quite painful to watch, though....

Oh, and any idea when is the double issue? Will we see a chapter this week or the next? I remember a few months ago how there wasn't any HnG for at least two, if not three weeks. This place practically died. Hahaha...

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Rah

Oh, and any idea when is the double issue? Will we see a chapter this week or the next? I remember a few months ago how there wasn't any HnG for at least two, if not three weeks. This place practically died. Hahaha...

Next week is the double issue, so the week after won't have anything.

[madmac]

Anyway, the latest chapter was quite nice. Thumbs up for Hata and how he pushed a step forward Ayumu & Nagi's relationships. I don't believe for a second that Nagi's excuse to bring Ayumu back was a lie. She actually overcame her tsundere personality for a moment, and told her her true feelings.

:3

A nice step forward. And Ayumu is direct like always, though perhaps a little overreacting, because of the moment.

Also I'd like to add how Hayate managed to masterfully outwit Ayumu when she was trying to make him realize that it was her birthday. Quite painful to watch, though....

Pretty much this. I'd like more Ayumu time, but from how side-storyish her birthday arc felt, I take it she's not really part of the current story arc.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by madmac

Pretty much this. I'd like more Ayumu time, but from how side-storyish her birthday arc felt, I take it she's not really part of the current story arc.

Judging by the 'narrator' statement on the bottom of the last page, it's got another two chapters.

It did at least tell us that the daily life of Hayate and Nagi isn't going to change, they still work at the cafe apparently.

[madmac]

Judging by the 'narrator' statement on the bottom of the last page, it's got another two chapters.

Hmmm...you could take it that way, I suppose. Don't forget that next week is a double issue though. We'll see.

It did at least tell us that the daily life of Hayate and Nagi isn't going to change, they still work at the cafe apparently.

At this point, they could actually need the extra income. I imagine Nagi is still saving for that watch, though.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Mentar

To grow by eventually realizing her self-delusion and progress by looking for someone who is less of a guardian/butler and more of an eye-level PARTNER.

Yeah, like someone that actually appreciates her stories. Am I the only one that cringes sometimes at the reactions of Hayate and/or Maria whenever they read her manga? Poor Nagi, her audience is insensitive as hell.

[Used Can]

That's why she should write for Isumi only.

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Used Can

That's why she should write for Isumi only.

There's also fumi as well and at some extent, Machina.

[Used Can]

Fumi...?
As for Machina, were we ever told he liked manga? I remember his fascination for hamburgers, but I don't remember anything about him liking manga.

[leoblack9]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Fumi...?
As for Machina, were we ever told he liked manga? I remember his fascination for hamburgers, but I don't remember anything about him liking manga.

Hibino Fumi. And I'm just basing it on their airheadness and they have a higher probability of liking Nagi and Isumi's manga than anyone, of course, I have no other grounds to base it off on.