Why do so many people want to come and live in America?

[WanderingKnight]

French-bashing is one of the white-listed racisms in the English-speaking world and diffused around the world from there. You will now probably say that you were in Paris personally and then this or that happened which I can neither disprove nor does it matter in larger scheme of things.

While I would say that the US is an easier target to immigrate than Europe (though maybe I'm biased by myself), France never occurred to me to be inhospitable place compared to the rest of Europe or the world.

French people will probably disagree the loudest with me. But that's in accordance to my observation that in general the hospitality of a country is proportional to the ratio of self-bashers to hurr-durr-patriots.

I want to agree with you in the big picture of things, but a completely unbiased workmate of mine (seriously, he had absolutely no preconceptions about that and, if anything, most people idolize France in my country) toured Europe during the winter there and told me he was treated like shit in Paris (actually, he told me it was more or less so everywhere he went, except for London, but in Paris it was even more noticeable). My own father told me so, even though he had worse things to say about Greece, heh.

And if my own experience counts I felt treated pretty badly in Germany (even though it was just Lufthansa ground staff... )

[Kusa-San]

Paris != of France.

I will not answer about people who said that Sarko is a racist when these people don't know what they're talking about (and of course, it's not true, Sarko is not a racist and I don't like him either).

To answer the question of this topic, I don't want to come and live in America, don't want it at all. I don't like how this country works. It's the symbol of how bad the capitalism is for me and how dangerous it is for the world. But I'm glad that Obama is the actual president because I think it's this kind of man than can do something good for this country.

[Vexx]

My aunt and uncle travel to France quite a lot... basically their story is that Paris is big city... most big cities have an abundance of jerks. Outside of Paris, they've been treated wonderfully on average... less so in Paris.

But the reputation is one even the French acknowledge and revel in. Certainly British comedy capitalizes on it for decades.

[Reckoner]

There is so much negativity about my country here. I don't know exactly how many of you have actually traveled to the US, or have taken time to note the large regional differences, (ex: The WEST, EAST, SOUTH, MIDWEST). But the country can be very different depending on where you go.

Many of the criticisms flying around here can also be easily applied to other countries, and those countries also have many other faults as well.

Also... Remember that living in a country and visiting a country is much much different. It's like, I'd love to go into forests, and embrace the nature around me, but I wouldn't live in them. So to those that say they might want to live in country "X," you may have not quite realized this difference. This is something that affects many people who choose to go live in Japan for example.

[yoropa]

Originally Posted by Kusa-San

I will not answer about people who said that Sarko is a racist when these people don't know what they're talking about (and of course, it's not true, Sarko is not a racist and I don't like him either).

To answer the question of this topic, I don't want to come and live in America, don't want it at all. I don't like how this country works. It's the symbol of how bad the capitalism is for me and how dangerous it is for the world. But I'm glad that Obama is the actual president because I think it's this kind of man than can do something good for this country.

I'd like to clarify once again, if only for personal purposes, that me hating France is solely the fault of the government and I have nothing against French people. I know many; they're all nice people. I studied French for six years, and Le Petit Prince is one of my favorite books ever, and I read it entirely in French. And even though I don't take French any longer I still have it on my bookshelf and I still occassionally will read it for personal enjoyment Just so you know I'm not the stereotypical redneck France-hating American.

While many Americans criticized France for not participating in Iraq, I was one of the view praising such a decision, and should France end its push on banning religious headgear in public and adopt something more of the British system, which developed a specific police hardhat turban for the Sikh members of their police force, and work together on integrating these immigrants into their own culture without trying to force them out as being anti-French, then I would be more than happy with your country.

I'm not calling for an end to diplomatic and trade relations with France, I'm just calling for improved human rights as I have been doing with every country including the United States of America. My respect for human rights and free speech is one of the main reasons I've stayed in America and have not returned to my family overseas.

Now Canada also has the same thing as America in terms of free speech (more or less) so really the only difference is that I grew up in America and feel more at home here than I do in Canada. Had I grown up in Canada I'm sure I'd be more inclined to them than to here.

The fact that the American Congress has representatives of a plethora of races and religions (including Buddhism and Islam), regardless of war times, is something I feel is highly positive about the country and speaks well about us.

And do note the differences in the regions here. I'm an East Coast guy. I probably wouldn't feel this way if I was living in Texas, to be perfectly honest. The same would be of France. Nice and Paris are vastly different. Need I even mention how distinct the Basque areas near the border with Spain are?

Generally I feel that the main force that makes people immigrate is war and money. Personal interest immigration (Western otaku going to Japan) does happen but I don't feel it's as significant.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Samari

My entire point was that America could improve upon some issues like universal health care and role capitalism can be corrupt.

We're working on that health care thing. The Healthy Americans Act will finally erase our title as the only industrialized nation without universal health care. Silly Republicans, saying socialism is bad.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Samari

I wondering myself why so many people apparently want to come to America? Sure this is the land of opportunity and it's better than a lot of third world countries in various aspects. But at the same time, we have major problems like no universal health care, the education ratings aren't anything to brag about, a lot of people are in poverty, a high violence rate, expensive colleges/universities, plus the job market is garbage right now. What is the deal with us compared to other established top tier nations? I personally like some aspects of my country, but I also wouldn't mind getting out of here for a good while assuming I had the money. The no health care thing really bothers me.

The fact that we don't have universal healthcare, helps America in terms of our Healthcare being superior to any other country in the world. Isn't it ironic how leaders from other countries(-cough- Canada -cough-) come to America for major treatment/surgery?

If you have cancer, you have a FAR better chance of surviving if you are in America, than in any other country in the world.

Seriously, America is one of the few countries you can come to, with practically nothing, and with a little hard work and intelligence, you can become successful.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

The fact that we don't have universal healthcare, helps America in terms of our Healthcare being superior to any other country in the world. Isn't it ironic how leaders from other countries(-cough- Canada -cough-) come to America for major treatment/surgery?

If you have cancer, you have a FAR better chance of surviving if you are in America, than in any other country in the world.

Seriously, America is one of the few countries you can come to, with practically nothing, and with a little hard work and intelligence, you can become successful.

Our health care is better, but it costs more too. Not to mention that before HAA, medical corporations could pick and choose who they wanted to begin long-term care for; having terminal illnesses would make the chances of a hospital accepting you lower, which is pretty darn unfair. Just because a patient with terminal illnesses costs a lot more to take care of than a healthy patient who only comes in for vaccines and regular check-ups, they turn them down.

But I agree with you about the starting with little and making it big that America offers.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Komari

Our health care is better, but it costs more too. Not to mention that before HAA, medical corporations could pick and choose who they wanted to begin long-term care for; having terminal illnesses would make the chances of a hospital accepting you lower, which is pretty darn unfair. Just because a patient with terminal illnesses costs a lot more to take care of than a healthy patient who only comes in for vaccines and regular check-ups, they turn them down.

But I agree with you about the starting with little and making it big that America offers.

There's other ways we could have gone about taking care of those who were getting turned away by Health Insurance companies. Having the Government FORCE everyone to buy into Health Care coverage or be fined/jailed, is unconstitutional, and entirely un-American. As is forcing Insurance Providers to provide insurance at the same cost to everyone, regardless of their conditions.

Truth be told, this Healthcare Reform Bill that passed, is a bloody mess, that will greatly increase our national debt, and decrease the quality of healthcare for all(Doctors are already retiring, Healthcare Providers are stopping new policies, hospitals are turning away medicare/medicaid patience). We do not have the hospitals, or doctors to support the same level of care we have had in the past, and increasing those who can use it, by 30 million people. There will be rationing of healthcare just on the fact that there's not enough staff/medicine/facilities on hand to support the increases.

And I hate to break it to people, but life is unfair. America was never about 'fairness'. It was about equal opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. But you are not guaranteed the same results as anyone else.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

There's other ways we could have gone about taking care of those who were getting turned away by Health Insurance companies. Having the Government FORCE everyone to buy into Health Care coverage or be fined/jailed, is unconstitutional, and entirely un-American. As is forcing Insurance Providers to provide insurance at the same cost to everyone, regardless of their conditions.

Truth be told, this Healthcare Reform Bill that passed, is a bloody mess, that will greatly increase our national debt, and decrease the quality of healthcare for all(Doctors are already retiring, Healthcare Providers are stopping new policies, hospitals are turning away medicare/medicaid patience). We do not have the hospitals, or doctors to support the same level of care we have had in the past, and increasing those who can use it, by 30 million people. There will be rationing of healthcare just on the fact that there's not enough staff/medicine/facilities on hand to support the increases.

And I hate to break it to people, but life is unfair. America was never about 'fairness'. It was about equal opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. But you are not guaranteed the same results as anyone else.

I'm not talking about that mandatory auto insurance thing; the reform bill will take money from the government, taxes, and big corporations to pay for universal health care. No one's forced to buy health care for themselves; the only paying people may be doing is tax paying, which will be pooled into a reserve for all Americans to use to get health care.

Coming to America thinking it's more "fair" than wherever the heck someone came from is not smart at all. We're having problems adapting just one socialist aspect, do you really think we'll go communist just so it can be "fair"? Sorry, America doesn't like communism for a reason.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Komari

I'm not talking about that mandatory auto insurance thing; the reform bill will take money from the government, taxes, and big corporations to pay for universal health care. No one's forced to buy health care for themselves; the only paying people may be doing is tax paying, which will be pooled into a reserve for all Americans to use to get health care.

Coming to America thinking it's more "fair" than wherever the heck someone came from is not smart at all. We're having problems adapting just one socialist aspect, do you really think we'll go communist just so it can be "fair"? Sorry, America doesn't like communism for a reason.

We don't like socialism or communism because they don't work. And they punish those who produce and work, and reward those who don't.

[Xion Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

And I hate to break it to people, but life is unfair. America was never about 'fairness'. It was about equal opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. But you are not guaranteed the same results as anyone else.

I think this sums up a lot. Although one can argue equal opportunity isn't as equal as it were maybe 5-10 years ago, especially since we're in the middle of a recession, but the general idea still holds true.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

And I hate to break it to people, but life is unfair. America was never about 'fairness'. It was about equal opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. But you are not guaranteed the same results as anyone else.

There also has never been equal opportunity in America. Believing such is just as childish as those who believe in Utopian socialist societies. The fight for just suffrage is enough to tell you that equal opportunity has never been on the table, but as long as your white and wealthy, then you have "equal" opportunity.

[WanderingKnight]

People vote in America? That's news.

(yes, I am being intentionally offensive just to prove a point)

[mg1942]

Originally Posted by Komari

Impatient illegal immigrants can get the heck out. The ones who apply for citizenship just can't become president.

well the governor of arizona just signed the toughest immigration enforcement in teh nation today

methinks they're just trying to shame the Feds into doing their job.


and btw i won't be shocked when illegals from Arizona start start running to California due to Sanctuary Laws (especially in Los Angeles)

[Zero Shinohara]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

We don't like socialism or communism because they don't work. And they punish those who produce and work, and reward those who don't.

QTMFT.

The problem here begins with the Government requiring you to do anything - and truly this isn't the first time something like this has gone through. The healthcare bill, which many don't want, most don't understand, and nobody has read, which just passed is simply another iteration of things such as "You must wear your seat belt when driving", and "You must purchase insurance before driving". You can get fined for those, yes, but you can also choose not to own a car or drive. The healthcare deal is, as many say, universal, so everyone will have to either be in it or pay for it regardless or using it or not.

And anyone who says this is not going to cost more than what it takes in is just delusional, gullible, or insincere.

In my opinion, there are two types of people: those who want the government to get out of their way and those who want to lay down comfortably on its lap. You can say there are varying degrees, but every State out there is just like quicksand. Once it begins to expand, only a bottomless pit awaits you. What is next? A Draft? What, is the U.S. Government going to start cooking gas for the needy?

Well, the government always does what buys their party votes anyway. I, for one, would require each and every person running for public office ever to have at least owned some type of business, worked in the public sector or to know what it really means having to work hard for your money. No more Ivy league lawyers who have no idea how to manage a payroll and who don't know where the hell the money they're shredding comes from. Sounds good?

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Komari

...
Coming to America thinking it's more "fair" than wherever the heck someone came from is not smart at all. We're having problems adapting just one socialist aspect, do you really think we'll go communist just so it can be "fair"? Sorry, America doesn't like communism for a reason.

I just figured out one thing as a non-american. You people use the words communism and socialism more often in a wrong context than anywhere else in the world (except maybe for countries like China, where it is clearly used in the wrong context as a propaganda means). If people for example believe that China is a communist system, I just think... yeah that (anti)communism propaganda must have had a serious impact on your common sense.
America doesn't like communism, but most part of it clearly has not a clue about what communism actually is, and which systems in the world are by a matter of fact (reality) clearly not communist. It appears that everything "un-american" can be labeled socialist/communist these days.
Another thing is this "we are the good guys" and "we are the victim" meme. I sometimes wonder if people actually realize how biased they are.
Nobody is without bias, but these points stand out very clearly in the average US citizens mind in my oppinion.

[mg1942]

Originally Posted by Komari

But I agree with you about the starting with little and making it big that America offers.

if your an immigrant, starting with *little* (the legal way) means saving as much as five figures to pay for decent immigration lawyer

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by Jinto

I just figured out one thing as a non-american. You people use the words communism and socialism more often in a wrong context than anywhere else in the world (except maybe for countries like China, where it is clearly used in the wrong context as a propaganda means). If people for example believe that China is a communist system, I just think... yeah that (anti)communism propaganda must have had a serious impact on your common sense.
America doesn't like communism, but most part of it clearly has not a clue about what communism actually is, and which systems in the world are by a matter of fact (reality) clearly not communist. It appears that everything "un-american" can be labeled socialist/communist these days.
Another thing is this "we are the good guys" and "we are the victim" meme. I sometimes wonder if people actually realize how biased they are.
Nobody is without bias, but these points stand out very clearly in the average US citizens mind in my oppinion.

Communism is a word reserved for the detractors of America, it's a word that has powereful meaning to those because the Great Leader of the Free World, Ronald Reagan single handedly defeated the communists with his Reagan Smash. Everytime people (americans) claim that China is a communist regime, maybe in their social construct yes they have socialist tendencies but as a economic system they are MUCH close to laisse fairez ecomonics then America ever will be.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

Communism is a word reserved for the detractors of America, it's a word that has powereful meaning to those because the Great Leader of the Free World, Ronald Reagan single handedly defeated the communists with his Reagan Smash. Everytime people (americans) claim that China is a communist regime, maybe in their social construct yes they have socialist tendencies but as a economic system they are MUCH close to laisse fairez ecomonics then America ever will be.

Their social construct is clearly an autocracy of a single party consisting of elites. Considering lobbying powers in the capitalist world (autocracy of the powerful lobbies/politicians), the driving traits are pretty much the same (egoism, craving for power, elitism). These traits are fundamentally incompatible with communism. Communism/socialism is something that can be seen for example in insect colonies, but that requires a trait/mind-set that the average human does not have yet.