Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid Manga Discussion

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

I wouldn't be bothered by the named characters being more powerful than the 'grunt soldiers'... but the setting is that of an intermediate-level tournament for what is essentially a junior age-group. The same setting acknowledges that there's a level/age group that's higher than their current playing field.

It's the same sense as Prince of Tennis. The setting is that of a U-15 National-level tournament. The anime's mainly the one guilty of this, but it's difficult for me to take it seriously when you put in The US Open in the same magnitude. And every now and then, the so-called 'tennis pros or semi-pros' are humiliated before them 'Princes of Tennis' when it logically doesn't make any sense that 13-15 year olds are wrecking 'professional-tier grunts.'

well.. I get the feeling that this tournament is more limited that what it seems

It says 10~19, but I think it's mostly for school kids

returning veteran top rankers so far are: a banchou, an iinchou, an oujou, a kendo club captain? and Sieglinde

I have yet to see a "professional" in this tournament, grunt or not, baring that one theoretical instance of Erio and Caro possibly joining the tournament. How common are child soldiers in midchilda anyway?

Maybe things will step up at the city level

[itanshi1]

How common? They seem pretty common. They are quick learners. Living Weapons need a handler.

[ssc2good]

The DSAA Inter Middle Championship should be an amateur tournament. So even if you're in the age limit, if you work for TSAB you wouldn't be able to participate.

Originally Posted by Keroko

The reason for Erio and Caro not participating was, and I quote page 12 of chapter 18 here, "I don't think they're the type to do it though." Subaru talks about their participation as possible, so bureau personnel can participate.

The full conversation from the translations I read was
Subaru: Wouldn't it be fun if Erio and Caro could also participate in their world?
Teana: I don't think those two are the type to do it though.

Looking at the full conversation, it seems that "professional" mages (Erio, Caro, Nove, etc.) are not allowed to participate.

[Jimmy C]

I don't agree that those lines imply that pro mages (within the age group) are not allowed to participate.
I did suggest that having a job would get in the way of participating in a tournament. Just imagine having to forfeit because you were needed on a case instead.

[Keroko]

What separates an amateur martial artist from a professional anyway? The amount of training these girls pour into this tournament is way beyond casual, and the skills these girls perform are of a level that rivals what we've seen throughout the series.

[Skane]

We see their training, but the girls have a fair amount of "off-time" too, and it is not a matter of life or death for them. A professional generally does it for a living. Eats, sleeps and breathes the sport he/she is doing. If you read what pro-athletes do on a daily basis, there is simply no comparison to an amateur.

Cheers.

[Meltyred]

Originally Posted by Keroko

What separates an amateur martial artist from a professional anyway? The amount of training these girls pour into this tournament is way beyond casual, and the skills these girls perform are of a level that rivals what we've seen throughout the series.

I dunno, it looks extremely flashy and not really that strong....

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Skane

We see their training, but the girls have a fair amount of "off-time" too, and it is not a matter of life or death for them. A professional generally does it for a living. Eats, sleeps and breathes the sport he/she is doing. If you read what pro-athletes do on a daily basis, there is simply no comparison to an amateur.

Cheers.

Noted.

Originally Posted by Meltyred

I dunno, it looks extremely flashy and not really that strong....

Given the damage to its surroundings we've been shown, all the cracked and outright shattered walls are quite up to par with what the series showed so far. And Shante made physical clones. Even Teana has never been shown making physical clones.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Keroko

What separates an amateur martial artist from a professional anyway? The amount of training these girls pour into this tournament is way beyond casual

What Skane said.

Honestly, StrikerS and the random Nanoha side-materials is the best testament to this. We are told that Nanoha and co. are literally so busy they're joined in their hips to their job,but the series has a lot of screentime dedicated to their 'extremely rare' off-hours.

Besides, we must take into perspective that the girls, are for most parts, benefiting from the best professional. It does look impressive, but think if The Nanoha Coaching Brigade was just Nove.

Suddenly the training looks less impressive, even if what the girls learn probably aren't any less under Nove.

Originally Posted by Keroko

and the skills these girls perform are of a level that rivals what we've seen throughout the series.

And this is what bothers me a bit. Their skills seem to pretty much rival 'professionals' who are deemed excellent and overall, above the average. Purely based on what we've seen.

I'd love to be proven otherwise and be told that their skillset, as flashy as it looks, are around Mage Rank C at most... but I have a hard time telling myself that.

Sure, they're wood-league compared to Nanoha and co., but at the same time... it's like comparing professional world-ranking athletes to age-bracket school children who's in the district level tournament, not even the national or world-meet.

[Skane]

This brings me back to my previous statement about the skewed perspective that we have of the Nanoha universe. Nanoha and Co. are NOT the common denominators.

To use a soccer analogy, Nanoha and Co. are Brazilian superstars. They will razzle and dazzle and wow your socks off, and when compared to say... my own country's national team, would make mine look like absolute crap; BUT... my country's national team can easily beat your average Joe Schmoe and Jane Plausible. That perspective has to be taken into consideration. People keep forgetting that Nanoha and Co. are MONSTERS. Anomalies.

Even in Einhart versus Nove, Nove was deliberately holding back. Her objective was to implant a tracking device, not to kill. Imagine for a moment, that you are confronted with an enemy combatant. Which do you think is easier? Shoot him dead, or disarm him without grievously hurting him?

Until we see Miura drawing with Nanoha (or even Teana), it should be safe to say that these girls are nowhere near of having the level of combat expertise that Nanoha and Co. have. They have style because they do have training in it, but top-tier experts? Not quite.

Cheers.

[novalysis]

I'd say that if Nove really wanted to win, she would have wiped the floor with Einhart. Though there'll be no guarantees as to how intact Einhart would be after such a mauling.

And Einhart herself could sense that Nove wasn't really trying hard against her. Hence, that comment on Nove's will.

And even then, Einhart was exhausted at the end of the battle, and passed out before returning home.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Skane

This brings me back to my previous statement about the skewed perspective that we have of the Nanoha universe. Nanoha and Co. are NOT the common denominators.

Still, if this tournament in Vivid is supposed to be D to C-rank power, we have been vastly underestimating what that level of power entails.

[Amaterasu1963]

No, I think some people are underestimating the level of the competition.

If you are reading "city tournament" and thinking "local club" you are very wrong. The winner of the city tournament competes in the world championship. This is effectively a national championship. On earth national champions are the ones who go on to the Olympics. This is an Olympic level competition.

[Keroko]

Yet, Olympics are the last thing that comes to mind at the word "amateur."

... so, where does the word amateur come from? I mean, like Amaterasu says, by any account this is an olympic-level tournaments. The Vivid cast even said as much that if the girls won, they'd be the strongest girls of their age on the entire world.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Given the damage to its surroundings we've been shown, all the cracked and outright shattered walls are quite up to par with what the series showed so far. And Shante made physical clones. Even Teana has never been shown making physical clones.

Considering that Arf and Zafira, two of the weaker members of the A's cast, completely anhilated a city block in close "Dragon Ball Z" fashion during their fight, it's a bir easier to measure the large gap between the old cast and the Tournament contestants that only damage a combat arena at their best.

End even then, the girls doing the impressive stuff in the torunament are only the veterans and the named girls trained by our beloved pros(the commentator and some people didn't stopped to talk about how uncommonly strong the Nakajima team and a few other novices are). Sure, Vivio and Co. aren't tranining for life or death situation but they're greatly benefitted by being trained by actual military pros.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Considering that Arf and Zafira, two of the weaker members of the A's cast, completely anhilated a city block in close "Dragon Ball Z" fashion during their fight, it's a bir easier to measure the large gap between the old cast and the Tournament contestants that only damage a combat arena at their best.

Hold on, city block? Which episode did that happen?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Hold on, city block? Which episode did that happen?

A's, during their second encounter, they clashed fists with explosive force that blow near building floors. They continued punching each other and following explosions star ocurring around various streets as they continued fighting. They don't anhilated the block instantly like The Aces usually do but the amount of the damage they caused left an entire block in ruins. I'm impatiently waiting for their fight in the A's movie to see the beutifull explosions with high-quality animation xD!

[Keroko]

Oh, that. We've seen plenty of stuff like that during the training weekend.

[Amaterasu1963]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Yet, Olympics are the last thing that comes to mind at the word "amateur."

Good point. I suppose that varies by what country you are from. Back in the beginning all the competitors were amateurs. Then some countries saw it as a 'national prestige' thing and started allowing pros and even paying them.

Up until a few years ago the US didn't allow professionals to compete on it's Olympic teams.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Oh, that. We've seen plenty of stuff like that during the training weekend.

The training weekend before the start of the preliminaries? I remeber Miura sparring with Signum and the girls running and training but i can't remeber a city block being totalized xDU