Character Discussion - C.C

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Nourredine

Marianne might have wanted Lelouch to overthrow his father and make the world a better place?

It could be, but that's just some speculations at the moment.

[Dann of Thursday]

She could simply want her son in control so she can use him like a puppet. It could be a number of things both good and bad.

And it is a fact that C.C. knew Marianne before her death, though we don't know the full truth about that relationship. Marianne did ask that C.C. watch over and check up on Lelouch and Nunnally and it seems Marianne allowed C.C. to form a contract with Lelouch and that she wants C.C. to guide him.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

She could simply want her son in control so she can use him like a puppet. It could be a number of things both good and bad.

And it is a fact that C.C. knew Marianne before her death, though we don't know the full truth about that relationship. Marianne did ask that C.C. watch over and check up on Lelouch and Nunnally and it seems Marianne allowed C.C. to form a contract with Lelouch and that she wants C.C. to guide him.

IIRC correctly, C.C. said "I found you" (or something like that) in the first episode of R1 (when she gave the geass to lelouch)?_?

She sought him at this time?

[Dann of Thursday]

I have "it" rather than "you" which would more imply she didn't see him as a person so much as a means to an end.

She probably got captured and was unable to find him to make the contract. Of course, it's highly suspicious on how Lelouch just so happened to come by. It could just have been chance I suppose, but maybe not.

[Strettger]

Originally Posted by Narona

IIRC correctly, C.C. said "I found you" (or something like that) in the first episode of R1 (when she gave the geass to lelouch)?_?

She sought him at this time?

Likely - she will never admit to it any more than Gendo would admit human instrumentality needed Shinji.

C.C does one thing and means another, I personaly think she is some sort of arbiter of Ragnarok, likely she and Marriane are intending for him to become Emperor.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Strettger

Likely - she will never admit to it any more than Gendo would admit human instrumentality needed Shinji.

C.C does one thing and means another, I personaly think she is some sort of arbiter of Ragnarok, likely she and Marriane are intending for him to become Emperor.

Well, either way Lelouch is probably up for a huge shock as it's likely enough to be revealed at the end that he was either a pawn/puppet of C.C./Marianne or the emperor, I suppose...

[Strettger]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Well, either way Lelouch is probably up for a huge shock as it's likely enough to be revealed at the end that he was either a pawn/puppet of C.C./Marianne or the emperor, I suppose...

Keep in mind that wheras C.C looks like a child, she is the oldest and possibly wisest charecter in the entire series. She will not be so stupid as to say you were a pawn, something like the lines of, "this is the way it is, they way it has allways been and allways will be".

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Strettger

Keep in mind that wheras C.C looks like a child, she is the oldest and possibly wisest charecter in the entire series. She will not be so stupid as to say you were a pawn, something like the lines of, "this is the way it is, they way it has allways been and allways will be".

She might actually, in the end. After all, at that point, it won't matter that he knows that he was a pawn...

[Dann of Thursday]

I really hope it isn't something like Lelouch becoming Emperor, though at the moment that is probably going to be what happens.

[Strettger]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I really hope it isn't something like Lelouch becoming Emperor, though at the moment that is probably going to be what happens.

Geass does plot twist after plot twist, it must eventualy come full circle and deal with Lelouchs rank within Brittania itself.

C.C was captured not by Brittania, but by Clovis who would be disowned if his father found out what he had done. Just keep in mind that we know nothing of the C.C/Charles dynamic that could exist just beneath the surface.

[Dann of Thursday]

I know, but something just seems lame and wrong about him becoming the leader of the country he was going to take down. I don't think he would leave that whole imperial system intect either after the chaos it brought before.

C.C. hasn't demonstrated any knowledge of Charles or of knowing him and the little we have seen of Charles says the same thing.

[Strettger]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

I know, but something just seems lame and wrong about him becoming the leader of the country he was going to take down. I don't think he would leave that whole imperial system intect either after the chaos it brought before.

C.C. hasn't demonstrated any knowledge of Charles or of knowing him and the little we have seen of Charles says the same thing.

Just because it isnt hinted at dosent mean it does not exist.

We know something is up, C.C links to V.V and to Marriane, both of whom link to the Emperor. It would be a bit lame... but I see it or the opportunity of it as an inevitable part of the plots future.

Marrianes death is suspiscious, the remains were moved by Shniezel who just so happens to have a project with a cyberneticly revitalized super soldier. I note this as a plot device to explain Marrianes possible continued existance should we disregard the possibility of her having C.Cs regeneration complex.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, we know for a fact that C.C. and V.V. are enemies as they cannot tolerate the other's existence like FO said.

We do know there was a scene in the DS game that was sort of removed from the show but still present in storyboards, but had her saying she didn't want immortality.

[Strettger]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Well, we know for a fact that C.C. and V.V. are enemies as they cannot tolerate the other's existence like FO said.

We do know there was a scene in the DS game that was sort of removed from the show but still present in storyboards, but had her saying she didn't want immortality.

I somehow suspect C.C does not want her immortality either.....

Point taken on V.V and C.C, but I think like the way the Emperor plays his sprogs against each other they may latch onto candidates and help them, by that by proxy gaining power second only to the victor, perhaps V.V is technicaly more powerful than Charles if Charles follows what he says.....

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Strettger

perhaps V.V is technicaly more powerful than Charles if Charles follows what he says.....

V.V. is immortal (I suppose) and can teleport himself (and I bet he has some other powers), so he's somewhat powerfull even if he has the apparence of a child

[Dann of Thursday]

She doesn't seem to enjoy it and immortality is overrated unless you are with others who are immortal or something. Or if you are an idiot. Baccano is a good example of this.

I don't think Charles can use V.V. at all really unless they surprise us and he was actually working against V.V. with Marianne the whole time or something.

[jtjr26]

I maybe wrong but C.C. in the few flashbacks and old pictures she seems younger, maybe she isn't immortal but is just aging very slowly, and has amazing regenerative powers, among other supernatural powers. She is very driven and has an end goal, whatever that may be. I do agree with others she doesn't seem to enjoy her longevity. I get the impression that she is very old, maybe centuries old and is tired of loosing everyone she knows (death, old age).

[Dann of Thursday]

No, I'm pretty sure she looks the same all the time. It depends on the expression on her face though.

She may very well want to die and see everyone she misses. The ones she remembers anyway.

[Var]

Alright, its 2 AM, so any follies in writing or logic are not my fault!

Note: Anything I didn't reply to, I most likely agreed with or couldn't really be bothered to nit-pick some minor point that would be better off left to the wolves.

Originally Posted by Esper 28

However, I personally am on the side of C.C. being a type of Goddess or, as nobody's suggested, a God in Goddess form. In other words, typically, the character she's based off of or personifies, would be a male, but in the anime, they made him into a female character for whatever reason.

This show is quite (in)famous for reversing roles. The usual antagonist is your protagonist, your antagonist is a multi-dimensional Kira Yamato, Kallen is a woman, etc. Most of the usual things one would expect from anime, notably a mecha, have been turned on their head. Having said all that, I can see the possibility.

Originally Posted by Esper 28

(To be honest, while reading, I briefly entertained the idea that C.C. was a female version of Loki, but eventually dismissed it.)

If you wanted to further entertain the idea Fenrir fits Mao rather well. The boy never did anything wrong at first, but through C.C.'s actions and his abilities he came to hate the world. Its a stretch but its not too different from the fate Fenrir endured just because it was feared.

Originally Posted by Esper 28

I think she's embodies something with a touch of the divine for sure, but as to who or what, I don't know and nobody here could know. The argument made for Eris was a good one, however, I think I'm more inclined to fall in line with the Morrigan group. Perhaps the green hair has forced me to associate her with the Morrigan from the classic Darkstalkers video game, but from what I know of Morrigan in myth, which I'll admit isn't much, it would seem that C.C. would probably fit well with her description.

I don't really see a connection between C.C. and the triple goddess Morrigan. While C.C. may have a set of faces, that's not really quite as extreme as a single entity displaying three different characteristical faces. I'm also not too fond of Eris, because her role is to bring forth strife and chaos (or to be blamed for it). C.C.'s never really shown a desire to bring chaos or disorder, she's been, more or less, very selfish with little care for the world as long as she acquires her end.

I could, of course, be missing some comparison someone made about the two (Eirs and C.C.) but I really don't see much of a cross over.

Originally Posted by Esper 28

That being said, I just wanted to bring to everyone's attention the poem, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. I mean, here we have Lelouch in the knightmare called Gawain with a green haired sidekick at his side. If you haven't read the poem, you can quickly Wiki it and get a gist. I realize that the Green Knight in the poem is far from identical with that of C.C. in the anime, but I think the motifs are still there. I think C.C. is there to test Lelouch and that she is both his friend, as well as his enemy. I also feel that, like the Green Knight, C.C. has a touch of the mystical about her. I can't stress enough that I don't mean she is a literal copy of the Green Knight, but that she is doing for Lelouch what the Green Knight did for Gawain. I think that just by reading through the Wiki article, you can understand what I mean.

We discussed this before and I believe we both came to similar conclusions through different methods, though I probably tie C.C. more to Morgan than the Green Knight.

One of two down. The other one will be sometime when my head leaves my pillow.

[Esper 28]

Originally Posted by Var

Alright, its 2 AM, so any follies in writing or logic are not my fault!

Note: Anything I didn't reply to, I most likely agreed with or couldn't really be bothered to nit-pick some minor point that would be better off left to the wolves.

Heheh, I understand the late night posts. Almost all my posts come after 12pm. Sometimes when I browse through the next day, I see how my being tired makes my posts sound confusing and, well, make no sense.

And if it makes you feel any better, I had to read the part you were quoting because I wrote those posts so long ago. But I'm glad there were parts you agreed on 'cause that's an indicator that I'm not crazy. If I recall correctly, the first post was sort of my way of setting myself up for the next post.

Originally Posted by Var

This show is quite (in)famous for reversing roles. The usual antagonist is your protagonist, your antagonist is a multi-dimensional Kira Yamato, Kallen is a woman, etc. Most of the usual things one would expect from anime, notably a mecha, have been turned on their head. Having said all that, I can see the possibility.

Ah, yeah. I recall when I had originally wrote that I was trying to think outside the box that everyone, at the time, was thinking in. People were, in the context, constantly suggesting female characters in history/legend that, at times, didn't really fit. I was trying to throw the idea that perhaps they've taken a male character and made it female which would be exactly what you're talking about.

In truth, I don't see why that line of thinking should be completely tossed out the window. Considering the few facts we have, we probably shouldn't rule out any ideas entirely.

Originally Posted by Var

If you wanted to further entertain the idea Fenrir fits Mao rather well. The boy never did anything wrong at first, but through C.C.'s actions and his abilities he came to hate the world. Its a stretch but its not too different from the fate Fenrir endured just because it was feared.

Hmmm, I definitely see the parallel you're making, but I dunno. With the mention of Ragnarök by Charles, people were going Norse crazy. I think almost every Norse god/goddess comparison that can be made just never fits quite right.

However, I definitely think the comparison for C.C. as Loki with Mao being a type of Fenrir and, perhaps, Lelouch being some sort of Jormungand. Lelouch is comparable to Jormungand by the Loki/C.C. comparison and because I think by the end of the series he's going to "grow" to enormous proportions until he'll quite possibly be able to nibble on his own tail. Though I think an idea like that should be entertained in the Lelouch thread.

Though like I said, I think your Mao comparison works out, but I just don't think they're a perfect fit. Now I'm sitting here wondering... if C.C. and crew are comparable to Loki and family, does that make Charles and Britannia comparable to the Aesir? I'm hard pressed to pick an Odin, but I suppose V.V. could fill that role. I'm not familiar enough with the Britannian family to make many connections.

And my big problem comes while trying to pick one for Cornelia. I just want to give her all the awesome attributes of every god.

Originally Posted by Var

I don't really see a connection between C.C. and the triple goddess Morrigan. While C.C. may have a set of faces, that's not really quite as extreme as a single entity displaying three different characteristical faces. I'm also not too fond of Eris, because her role is to bring forth strife and chaos (or to be blamed for it). C.C.'s never really shown a desire to bring chaos or disorder, she's been, more or less, very selfish with little care for the world as long as she acquires her end.

I could, of course, be missing some comparison someone made about the two (Eirs and C.C.) but I really don't see much of a cross over.

I agree with you 100%. At the time, Morrigan and Eris were the two main arguments being made, so I merely picked a side. But now I'm with you that neither of those two are suitable choices.

Originally Posted by Var

We discussed this before and I believe we both came to similar conclusions through different methods, though I probably tie C.C. more to Morgan than the Green Knight.

Yeah, I agree. When you read my next post, I make a bunch of direct comparisons between the Green Knight and C.C., but please don't misconstrue that. I didn't mean it to say that the Green Knight and C.C. are synonymous, but merely that there are some really big similarities. I sort of hint at the end at how the Green Knight was created by Morgan and more of an extension of her character rather than a stand alone character.

Uh, I don't think I'm explaining that right. Basically, I was trying to get at that, yeah, there are some incredible similarities between the Green Knight and C.C., but I see those similarities to be shared with Morgan because, in essence, she is the Green Knight.

I figure we'll discuss that more when you reply to the next one. You'll probably see something I missed or think of something I didn't, which I'm really happy about.

Originally Posted by Var

One of two down. The other one will be sometime when my head leaves my pillow.

I look forward to it!