Tasogare Otome x Amnesia [Manga]

[Solace]

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

Though many anime fans will dislike my comment, I say the anime should I have waited to follow the manga route. Despite the series being a comedy and romance aspects most of the time, I think it will serve as a good example for viewers to learn the mistake of falling into superstitions.

I really wish there are more anime out there that teaches and shows the mistakes about the past and what to do to avoid them.

Go check out Record of Fallen Vampire if you're interested in that kind of theme. Strauss, the main character, carries one hell of a weight. And he's not the only one. It's one of my favorite manga....I'm not sure an anime could do it justice. Then again, I'm still hoping for a Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer anime. ><

But yeah, I think the anime played up the romcom a bit too much, and downplayed the darker side too much. Without the romcom, this would be an extremely bleak and depressing story, but I think with those elements a nice balance is achieved, especially in showing the difference between fear and love. Sankarea ended up the same way, in terms of what the anime played up/down compared to the source material. I liked them for what they were, but I don't think they captured what made the mangas truly enjoyable to read.

As for this chapter, woah. I saw it coming, but it's still brutal. I wonder how hard it must have been for Yukariko to watch Kirie grow up to be a spitting image of Yuuko.

[bumbayker]

Can't say I didn't see this coming. My hunch a year ago that Yukariko was directly involved/responsible with her sister's death is confirmed. I just had to wait how Maybe illustrates Yuuko's demise. So basically Shadow Yuuko is the product of betrayal from the one person whom she loved most when she was alive. Now the remaining question is why are there 2 ghosts Yuukos and what caused that schism? Unless 2 Yuukos emerged right after her death.

[Seitsuki]

Am I a bad person for feeling that Yukariko basically got off everything scot-free and being pissed at that? Sure she's all 'remorseful' and 'burdened' and oh cry me a river, she had a life and a family and everything while Yuuko's ghost mouldered in a basement. I'm not exactly bloodthirsty or anything, but that just doesn't sit right with me. Not like there's much that can done about it now though I guess..

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Seitsuki

Am I a bad person for feeling that Yukariko basically got off everything scot-free and being pissed at that? Sure she's all 'remorseful' and 'burdened' and oh cry me a river, she had a life and a family and everything while Yuuko's ghost mouldered in a basement. I'm not exactly bloodthirsty or anything, but that just doesn't sit right with me. Not like there's much that can done about it now though I guess..

I don't think anyone is fine with it. Shadow Yuuko exists for a reason.

[yuzen003]

I personally feel Yukariko is a monster for her role in the murder and subsequent long fulfilling life, if you don't consider guilt and regret punishment and I don't, and would like to see some justice by the end of the manga. I don't think there is a statute of limitations on murder, if she really felt guilty she could have always confessed to the crime led the police (provincial if the local police ignore her) to her sister's bones and gone to jail as she deserved.

I expect Yuuko to forgive her, but I'd like to see Yuuko not offer her that absolution since Yukariko really has not done anything to deserve it.

[bumbayker]

Originally Posted by yuzen003

I personally feel Yukariko is a monster for her role in the murder and subsequent long fulfilling life, if you don't consider guilt and regret punishment and I don't, and would like to see some justice by the end of the manga. I don't think there is a statute of limitations on murder, if she really felt guilty she could have always confessed to the crime led the police (provincial if the local police ignore her) to her sister's bones and gone to jail as she deserved.

I expect Yuuko to forgive her, but I'd like to see Yuuko not offer her that absolution since Yukariko really has not done anything to deserve it.

Even if she did confessed her crime to proper authorities what could they humanely do to punish her? Sending her to prison would be pointless since she's already very old (at least in her 70s). The closest thing for justice at this point would be to close down the entire school or hand the ownership to local government. Not to mention give Yuuko's corpse a decent burial.

[JokerD]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I don't think anyone is fine with it. Shadow Yuuko exists for a reason.

I think it's a contradiction of Yuuko's, she loves her sister dearly yet hate the fact that her sister sentenced her to a painful death, hence the split

Originally Posted by bumbayker

Even if she did confessed her crime to proper authorities what could they humanely do to punish her? Sending her to prison would be pointless since she's already very old (at least in her 70s). The closest thing for justice at this point would be to close down the entire school or hand the ownership to local government. Not to mention give Yuuko's corpse a decent burial.

Even now she's trying to cover up her crimes by demolishing the building instead of confessing and atoning for it, says a lot about her character doesn't it...

[yuzen003]

Originally Posted by bumbayker

Even if she did confessed her crime to proper authorities what could they humanely do to punish her? Sending her to prison would be pointless since she's already very old (at least in her 70s). The closest thing for justice at this point would be to close down the entire school or hand the ownership to local government. Not to mention give Yuuko's corpse a decent burial.

I'm not sure if there is any good way to deal with her at this point as she's pretty much already lived her life. On the other hand even if it is only a token punishment being stuck in prison for her remaining years would be more justice then she has had to endure thus far. I honestly don't think there is any way to atone for what the villagers did, but at least the other people involved went insane and died so in a way they have already been punished for their actions.

[bumbayker]

Originally Posted by JokerD

Even now she's trying to cover up her crimes by demolishing the building instead of confessing and atoning for it, says a lot about her character doesn't it...

Yukariko's motive to demolish the old building isn't to cover up the crime committed. She could have done that decades ago if that were the case. She just wants to put her sister to rest and ask forgiveness from her despite what she has done.

Though I agree that Yukariko should atone for her sin, I don't think she should take the entire blame. Her involvement was highly influenced by elders and other villagers fueled by their superstitious beliefs. She was also a minor who was no older than 14/15 at the time and didn't know any better. Yukariko in her brief state of insanity thought she was doing the right thing and wasn't doing it out of malice. It was only after they "sacrificed" Yuuko that she realized she has done a terrible deed and her sister's death was all for naught.

[NeutralZero]

^The asking forgiveness thing by demolishing the building's one hell of a crap full of lies.
The hell with her? she's just trying to run away again by using a farce, facade or trying to convince herself with the lie that she will be forgiven by doing so...
Really... she's already that old but the foolish young murderer that she was hasn't learn its lesson...

[bumbayker]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

^The asking forgiveness thing by demolishing the building's one hell of a crap full of lies.
The hell with her? she's just trying to run away again by using a farce, facade or trying to convince herself with the lie that she will be forgiven by doing so...
Really... she's already that old but the foolish young murderer that she was hasn't learn its lesson...

Honestly you're just reading into the lines too much. You treat her like some serial killer who had an malevolent ulterior motive when that wasn't the case. Given the harsh circumstance they were in with the plague and the fact their superstitious beliefs played a large influence pushed the village into the brink of desperation. Yeah, what she and the other villagers did to her own sister was really such an utterly illogical and despicable thing to do. Taking to account how badly the plague was affecting everyone do you honestly expect them to think or act rationally?

[NeutralZero]

Killing is still killing no matter what form of reason they have...
We don't treat her as a serial killer but as a murderer of Yuuko due to the frenzy or what ever it can be called that the plague caused...
She believe that Yuuko hated her so she doesn't kill her... probably one of the reason why she can't see the other Yuuko
She believe that by tearing down the building she will be forgiven...
She is responsible for her death period.
And she is running away from that responsibility by putting a crappy cover of forgiveness... period.
She hasn't outgrown her stupidity that cause Yuuko and her father's their lives...

Really... she's already that old but the foolish young murderer that she was hasn't learn its lesson...

All the evidence is present, now that she's old why not expose all the skeleton hiding in the closet...
if no one believe her when she was young, what about the present her now that she's old...
Those responsible that have died left some sort of epitaph depicting their heinous act... those that became the seven wonders of the school...
Yet all she did was kept everything to the shadows as if things will be ok by doing so...
really stupid...
she hasn't learn
and she fully hasn't repent...
All she did is blame her self, drown in self pity and run away from the main issue of the problem...
destroying the building is just like tearing another new conflict...

[MrTerrorist]

@NeutralZero
I think you have a very different view about crime, punishment and mercy with some of us.

In your view, a killer is a criminal no matter if they did themselves or was an accomplice and deserves to be punish no matter.

Have you heard the term "Turn the other cheek." ? It is really ok to hold a grudge with someone because he/she kill someone even if it was circumstances they have no control of?

Sometimes it's better to forgive someone of what they did in the past than to hold an obsessive grudge for a long time. This is true in real life.

[ReaperxKingx]

As harsh as it is, I agree with Neutral Zero, Fear is one thing, but to go over the board and sacrifice your own sister. Its okay if she wasn't aware of her actions, but in this case. Was there any signs to show she wasn't aware? She carefully planned and executed the sacrifice, also was aware that her sister was asking for help when she was thrown into the basement.

[NeutralZero]

We and we repeat hold no form of grudge to the granny's sins...
we views acts of man in as much as possible absolute neutrality...
Its easy to forgive and ask for forgiveness but then what?
what comes after that especially for the sinner?
After being forgiven one can finally move on but that's not the end of the story and it doesn't mean that they need to forget...
'Saying sorry will never erase the sins committed... ever... it will be a part of history, written or unwritten and can never be overwritten... even if the sins are already forgiven...
The only way the sinner can truly repent is to repent the sins for the rest of their lives, make sure that the sin will not be repeated by the sinner and to make sure that others wont make the same mistake...'
Question, is the grany under those conditions?
Answer... NO.
She regret but does not repent and on the other hand all she's been doing is running away from the main issue...
Tearing down the old building is more to ease her ego than to ease her guilt... with the false illusion of being forgiven...
This is also the undeniable truth not just of life but of the world...

[DragoZERO]

That was heavy... what we all expected but heavy none the less. And it was illustrated with despair too. All of the hands pushing her in. A truly horrific way to die.

[Starshipw]

Let's be reasonable. Yukariko was 14 when the crime happened 60 years ago. Are you going to incarcerate her in Juvie until she turns 21? She was influenced by co-conspirators who were, not the local drug gang but, a dozen of the local community leaders.

That being said, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Any demolition that doesn't first include police and the coroner removing Yuuko's body with a formal burial service is not going to set her spirit to rest. If her sister cannot bring herself to see that Yuuko is properly laid to rest before she is covered with rubble, then her friends should make sure it is done.

[bumbayker]

Originally Posted by Starshipw

Let's be reasonable. Yukariko was 14 when the crime happened 60 years ago. Are you going to incarcerate her in Juvie until she turns 21? She was influenced by co-conspirators who were, not the local drug gang but, a dozen of the local community leaders.

That being said, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Any demolition that doesn't first include police and the coroner removing Yuuko's body with a formal burial service is not going to set her spirit to rest. If her sister cannot bring herself to see that Yuuko is properly laid to rest before she is covered with rubble, then her friends should make sure it is done.

Exactly what I'm trying to point out. Yukariko was heavily influenced by locals and even her grandfather who felt that her family abandoned their duties. Indeed her participation of Yuuko sacrifice was horrible act and a heinous crime. But at that moment she was convinced that she was doing it for the benefit of her community to end the plague no matter how twisted or stupidly irrational it was.

[Randrak42]

Regardless of influence and intentions, the ends do not justify the means.
I will not be please with the manga if Yukariko ends up forgiven and unpunished...and no, the guilt she felt all those years as she built family and lived her life does not constitute as nearly enough of a punishment.

That said...I'm sure Yuuko will forgive her and Yukariko will get off scotch free.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by bumbayker

Exactly what I'm trying to point out. Yukariko was heavily influenced by locals and even her grandfather who felt that her family abandoned their duties. Indeed her participation of Yuuko sacrifice was horrible act and a heinous crime. But at that moment she was convinced that she was doing it for the benefit of her community to end the plague no matter how twisted or stupidly irrational it was.

So if everyone said that you should kill someone because it benefits everyone, would you do it? Take for instance the Holocaust as a giant broaden view of your idea, a lot of people were convince or was force to convince that the Jews were the source of their problems and mostly everyone agreed that removing them from Society would be better for everyone. We saw how that turned out didn't we. I really do not see the logic in that and we see the consequences of Yukariko's actions. The spread of the plague didn't stop, Yukariko's father committed suicide, and the one person who have been there to ease her worries, Yuuko, she killed. Left alone to bear a life long regret with the evil side of Yuuko appearing in front of her everyday to remind her regret and pain.