Japanese Culture

[Mystique]

I learnt yesterday that us foreigners love a good storm and knowing that the strength wouldn't be too severe compared to some of the stuff that hits Europe or America, most should be okay if one stays indoors.

For the natives, they ran around like headless chickens, trying to walk in this with umbrellas and feeling lost about the trains being cancelled while it passed, some even blaming the station managers and demanding compensation for stopping total service on most of the trains. (Are they idiots?) (-_-#)
We were warned about it for days and yet it puzzles me how they can be calmer about quakes and aftershocks but totally freak out strong typhoons, something that also hits Japan every year...

Interesting experience though, I personally stayed indoors and listened to the rock and roll of Mother Nature.
Rather this than an earthquake anyday, personally speaking after living through March 11th...


As for the worst of the damage, it happened in the Aichi area where some homes were flooded and people had to evacuate from the heavy rains. It reminded me that many homes here are made outta wood, compared to the UK's brick, which is why we go 'meh' for the vicious storms and winds that we got.
For many their homes were rattling like hell for ages, but seriously, if it survived a 7M quake, it can bloody survive a 80-90mph storm... :/

Eitherway, Japanese freaked out, guess it goes for any human who isn't used to their usual flavour of Mother Nature ass kickings..

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Mystique

I learnt yesterday that us foreigners love a good storm and knowing that the strength wouldn't be too severe compared to some of the stuff that hits Europe or America, most should be okay if one stays indoors.

I grew up in Southeast Texas area where they get a few tropical storms every year and a hurricane at least once a year. So yeah, its kind of curious that a seasonal event so routine that it ends up in most 'daily life' anime should cause the sort of confused consternation it does.

Well... i should say when we had our hurricanes and flooding there were always a handful of people who
1) were playing near a storm sewer, oops.
2) drove through an underpass where even the traffic lights were underwater, oops.
3) went to the shore to watch it come in, oops.

And, of course, the idiot businesses that wanted their employees to come in anyway and got mad when they didn't just because there was 3 feet of water in the streets.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Mystique

For the natives, they ran around like headless chickens, trying to walk in this with umbrellas and feeling lost about the trains being cancelled while it passed, some even blaming the station managers and demanding compensation for stopping total service on most of the trains. (Are they idiots?) (-_-#)

Probably because it's expected that they would be running

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Probably because it's expected that they would be running

And so again I repeat myself:

Are they idiots? (Seriously, have you seen some of those overground JR bridges? The hell you're gonna be running trains on them with gale force winds blasting at 80-90mph)

Though to further look into this bizzareness, I did ask a couple of natives that I know (including a very wise eldery couple who I learn tooons from)
And they said in a nutshell, at least for the salarymen's way of thinking, that because Japan's efficiency is precise and accurate just to have the slightest hitch in the service causes total breakdown.

More like, the natives are so used to knowing when and how things run according to a set system that to plan for 'surprises' or as we say in the West 'expect the unexpected', is not within their realm of thinking. Outside of the 'set system' and they freak out or don't know how to move next and I have seen and been at the mercy of this many times, it's one of the 'hates' of living here.

Of course for us foreigners who are often outside of the 'set system of society' it gives them a hard time, especially between banks and citizen offices...

But I won't go there.

So basically we had station managers severly apologising on behalf of Mother Nature of which we knew for 2-3 days beforehand that she was coming with trouble.

One would think to think of alternative solution for the day a typhoon hits huh...

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Mystique

And so again I repeat myself:

Are they idiots? (Seriously, have you seen some of those overground JR bridges? The hell you're gonna be running trains on them with gale force winds blasting at 80-90mph)

Though to further look into this bizzareness, I did ask a couple of natives that I know (including a very wise eldery couple who I learn tooons from)
And they said in a nutshell, at least for the salarymen's way of thinking, that because Japan's efficiency is precise and accurate just to have the slightest hitch in the service causes total breakdown.

More like, the natives are so used to knowing when and how things run according to a set system that to plan for 'surprises' or as we say in the West 'expect the unexpected', is not within their realm of thinking. Outside of the 'set system' and they freak out or don't know how to move next and I have seen and been at the mercy of this many times, it's one of the 'hates' of living here.

Of course for us foreigners who are often outside of the 'set system of society' it gives them a hard time, especially between banks and citizen offices...

But I won't go there.

So basically we had station managers severly apologising on behalf of Mother Nature of which we knew for 2-3 days beforehand that she was coming with trouble.

One would think to think of alternative solution for the day a typhoon hits huh...

Yup and I always tell people from abroad when doing a business pitch "No surprises."
This is especially true when doing business with bureaucrats who praise consistency, following their predecessor's footprints. It is also the fundamental basis for Toyota's philosophy "Kaizen" meaning improvement which on the flip side meaning they are not willing to do a scrap and build type approach.
In a way it is somewhat better than the "If it's not broken don't fix it" approach which you hear in many times in the business community like the UK which have been dragging their feet in redeveloping their train system introducing HS2 and are completely antipathetic to even consider maglevs for the route.

At the end people hate changes it's just a matter of the short term or the long term.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Fear for jobs ignites 'English crisis' in Japan

Tokyo (Sep 22, Thu): It's eight in the morning in a Tokyo office building, and a dozen middle-aged Japanese businessmen sit inside small booths, sweating as they try to speak English with the instructors in front of them.

"I hope my wife will understand my hobby," one 40-something man said, opening his mouth widely around the English words.

He is one of legions of Japanese businessmen, or "salarymen", struggling with a language they thought they had left behind them in school as fears mount that the growing push by Japanese companies into overseas business will mean a dark future for them without usable English.

Japan, despite being the world's third-largest economy and a major export powerhouse, is known for its poor English-speaking ability even though six years of study are required in middle and high school.

The country's average score on the TOEFL iBT, a computer-based test of English as a foreign language, last year ranked 27th among 30 Asian countries, below that of Mongolia and Turkmenistan.

Only 9 per cent of 1,156 white-collar workers surveyed by Recruit Agent, a recruiting firm, claim to be able to communicate in English. Many respondents evaluated their speaking and listening aptitude as "barely".

But things are starting to change, prompted by a growing sense of urgency about employment.

No English, no jobs
The first push came from online retailer Rakuten's decision last year to make English their official language. Fast Retailing, the operator of the Uniqlo apparel chain, also wants to make English its official language by next year and test its employees for proficiency.

"Rakuten's decision triggered a shock-wave that has extended to many other companies, especially manufacturers, because they too are under pressure to expand outside a shrinking home market," said Ms Yuriko Tsurumaki, a spokesman for Recruit Agent.

Now nearly half of Japanese companies planning new hiring require applicants to be "business English users" — a big rise from 16 per cent in July 2009, she said.

Highlighting fears among businessmen with poor English, a number of companies, including chipmaker Elpida Memory and Murata Manufacturing Co, a maker of parts used in mobile phones and computers, are shifting some production outside Japan to cope with a currency near record highs.

As a result, Japan's foreign-language education market is growing, with learners more than willing to fork out plenty of money on lessons, DVDs or e-learning.

It rose 1.6 per cent to US$9.8 billion last year from a year earlier, said Yano Institute of Research, and is set to grow another 1.8 per cent this year, making it a rare bright spot amid lagging Japanese private consumption.

"This is just the start of Japan's real globalisation. Everyone is feeling that they'll see a no-English-no-job situation," Mr Kenji Kamiyama, president of Gaba, an English language school, told Reuters in a recent interview.

REUTERS

Iit isu abouto taimu!


*Wonders, not for the first time, if there are openings for foreign English-language editors in Japan.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Fear for jobs ignites 'English crisis' in Japan

Given the current economic climate in the west, shouldn't opting for learning Mandarin be a more sensible choice ?

[Kylaran]

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Given the current economic climate in the west, shouldn't opting for learning Mandarin be a more sensible choice ?

Mandarin is one market; knowing English will open the doors to a much much larger number of opportunities.

[MakubeX2]

Originally Posted by Kylaran

Mandarin is one market; knowing English will open the doors to a much much larger number of opportunities.

I'm aware that English is still the de facto international lingua franca. I was thinking along the line that unless the current crisis going on in Europe and American get fixed within a couple of years, China's influence is just going to grow and you have people start learning Mandarin besides English in the west. Japan is just going back where they have started once they had catched up on English.

[Tri-ring]

Mainland China has heap of problem brewing underneath and Japan is well aware of them.
The PRC bubble will burst within the next 5 years and will suck many in if you're too close.
PRC will need another 20~40 years to become a serious contender on the global stage.

[Kylaran]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Mainland China has heap of problem brewing underneath and Japan is well aware of them.
The PRC bubble will burst within the next 5 years and will suck many in if you're too close.
PRC will need another 20~40 years to become a serious contender on the global stage.

Maybe even 50 years. Japan's economic strength in the 80's was a result of 35 years of post-war rebuilding + development too.

The PRC government does have one strong point, and that's being active in trying to minimize some of the current economic damages, and you can bet they're well aware of the possible damage when the bubble will burst in the future.

Western countries that grow steadily are a much better bet.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Mainland China has heap of problem brewing underneath and Japan is well aware of them.
The PRC bubble will burst within the next 5 years and will suck many in if you're too close.
PRC will need another 20~40 years to become a serious contender on the global stage.

Half that statistic. Time passes faster than you can expect it to be.

Regardless, I think learning Mandarin is still a good thing as there are many "fetish investors" who are going to Japan for their culture - learning the language may be a plus.

And we would have a company named Tai Yong Medical forcing people to go for mechanical implants on their bodies.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Fear for jobs ignites 'English crisis' in Japan


Iit isu abouto taimu!


*Wonders, not for the first time, if there are openings for foreign English-language editors in Japan.

Interesting, I always toyed with going to Japan to teach English...

I guess I need to batten down and do that TEFL course...

JET was always the one to go for, but I wonder, if the demand is so high maybe the private sector's work conditions have been improving....

[Mystique]

<confidentiality>
Student profile:
Reason for studying English:
"My boss is making me"

Us teachers: :/
</confidentiality>

That purpose title is increasing, makes me feel sorry for the poor bastards who force themselves to learn it as a 'tool' rather than as a key to opening up with some very interesting yet crazy humans (us gaijin) and communicating not only with the West but also the rest of Asia and just having the freedom to use it outside of work.

To many, it's just a means to an end but in a sense I guess I can understand that, from my own feelings about learning German or Finnish. I've no need for it, couldn't care less about it.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Mystique

<confidentiality>
Student profile:
Reason for studying English:
"My boss is making me"

Us teachers: :/
</confidentiality>

That pruurpose title is increasing, makes me feel sorry for the poor bastards who force themselves to learn it as a 'tool' rather than as a key to opening up with some very interesting yet crazy humans (us gaijin) and communicating not only with the West but also the rest of Asia and just having the freedom to use it outside of work.

To many, it's just a means to an end but in a sense I can I can understand that, from my own feelings about learning German or Finnish. I've no need for it, couldn't care less about it.

Aye, unless your hobby is linguistics and odd languages just fascinate... then there has to be inner motivation to learn a language. I've spent five years now learning Japanese.. or more properly - starting over and over and over and.... each time it goes a little faster but daily distractions make it very easy to fall off the wagon unless you have a social net of people who use it as their primary communication.

I suppose the upside of this is that, its like teaching -- maybe 1 out of 10 students you actually get to see a light bulb light up and that has to be the "win" ... the rest are just on the conveyor belt to a destination of mental oblivion.

[Kudryavka]

Fact: I'm learning English
Reason: Because I have to, not because I actually like the language, or like learning any other languages. Heck, there's a reason I'm not even proficient in English after six mandatory years of study.
Result: Failure

Seriously, it's very hard to learn a language without an actual want to. It's hard to do anything without a desire to; for something of such caliber as learning a whole new language, which requires hours upon hours of study (total immersion cuts that time down quite a bit), it's even more impossible.

What I'm trying to say is, learning English has been proven hard/impossible for the workers who still don't know it. imo companies are kinda betraying these people by requiring decent English skills. Does Japan really need to know English to succeed? I dunno, maybe they do, the world's always changing.

[Endless Soul]

I don't know if English is a required subject in the Chinese school system, but I do know English teachers are in high demand in China.

[Vexx]

Personally, I think the japanese companies making this demand are squandering resources. Focus on having a small core of "excellent bi-linguists". Their only workable alternative is partner with the K-12 school system and FIX their long-standing ineptitude in teaching english... and then wait 15 or 20 years.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Komari

Fact: I'm learning English
Reason: Because I have to, not because I actually like the language, or like learning any other languages. Heck, there's a reason I'm not even proficient in English after six mandatory years of study.
Result: Failure

Seriously, it's very hard to learn a language without an actual want to. It's hard to do anything without a desire to; for something of such caliber as learning a whole new language, which requires hours upon hours of study (total immersion cuts that time down quite a bit), it's even more impossible.

What I'm trying to say is, learning English has been proven hard/impossible for the workers who still don't know it. imo companies are kinda betraying these people by requiring decent English skills. Does Japan really need to know English to succeed? I dunno, maybe they do, the world's always changing.

They do, but its not just learning the language, its a cultural problem actually. I had a job interview for a debate school of which the Japanese boss wrote an amazing essay in english on his reasons he thought Japanese people just cannot grasp the english language hence he founded his school I wish he'd let me have a copy of it (perhaps he has it ip jp on his website)

But hearing a native pick out the issues of his fellow countrymen based on culture, mentality and personality as being obstacles was truly fascinating and reinspiring for me to help 'enlighten' some. Remember in this internet world, foreign languages open doors to worlds not just people.
With english comes a culture were we communciate directly using pronouns 100% compared to Japanese 'talk in a roundabout way using very little pronouns or subjects so one must 'read the atmosphere' to figure out a context.
(Contextual vs literal)

Next we have that Japanese people as I told Vexx one time, like no other in this world are masters of 'borrowing' foreign culture and making it their own.
As long as katakana exists and as long as they continue to teach it to the 8-9 year olds as they do (which infuriated me)
"Romaji and not even Hepburn style one, is a way to understand and read Japanese cause we use roman characters too and you need to know how to use a keyboard"
*facepalm*

As long as katakana exists, they'll never learn the true phenotics for English and continue speaking Japanese, cause that's what katakana is.
Add on top we have 'wassei eigo' where they take a english word, force it into katakana, very often as is the fashion, contract it and then change the actual meaning of the word they took and you can forget getting English down since they abuse it mercilessly without knowing any better.

I found out at school and many don't even know that katakana words are sometimes from french, spanish or portuguese, they assumed 'english' and wonder why I always ask them to define a katakana term as a gaijin.
(Because you bastards you destroy my native language and make speaking katakana braincell suicide when I have to force my mouth to add 2-3 more syllables to a word which mimics english, but isn't english) ><;;

That assumption that they think their katakana english will get through to us as well is also what holds them back from speaking, if it's not perfect, they won't even try. Trial an error is a Western concept perhaps, I have noticed now and since they retreat easily, perhaps its their biggest grave that they dig.
(and then there's the entire education system esp in junior high that teaches english simply as a means for an exam thus mass memorising and grammar and has zero focus or examination on speech and communication)
As many natives tell me and as I see with some students in my recent job, 'many Japanese cannot express themselves in Japanese, let alone in English. They simply don't have skills of communication from the start.'

That's changing in primary schools since this year the new law kicked into place, forcing elementary teachers to teach English now but there's so many issues, methinks it'll be a generation switch before attitudes to English develop better.

Is it needed, yeah not only for international communications but also to open their minds as people and to learn to express themselves a wee bit better.
I could rant all damn day but I better let it go now, lol. I should look for positivity and be grateful that at least, some people are beginning to study positively with the actual purpose of wanting independance and to travel around the world and explore things outside of their island.

Actually, speaking of abuse of english if I get a chance his week, I'll upload a picture I took on Wed, I almost saw red with it but taking it out on the staff would be pointless, lol.

[DonQuigleone]

But what about the way English is so Hip and COOL. That has to stand for something right? I mean we don't see Chinese or French words getting randomly inserted into J-Pop, do we?

I would have thought the coolness of our collective cultures would be enough to motivate people to learn English. I mean we want to learn a little Japanese as we watch Japanese Movies and Anime? Surely the same applies to Western Movies which, last time I checked, are pretty popular over there. Furthermore, most of the biggest internet sites are in English, all the big names are English language. Love it or hate it, but English is the place to be, in linguistic terms.

Is the Japanese english education system failing to use our obvious cool points as a motivator?

Why isn't English more popular among japanese youth?