(L) Basilisk ~ Kouga Ninpou Chou ~

[mishka]

Originally Posted by Divine Punisher

what about tenzens backround?
could please someone explain ?

Do a wikipedia search on him and there you'll find everything there's to know about him.

[Divine Punisher]

about that guy killing the pregnant women---->

[glockenspiel]

oh man, I've really been wanting to see this!

[mishka]

I just wanted to add that Yashamaru from Kouga was so hot...he could have his own series with him as the main character!

[nellA]

Yashamaru was from Iga

[molitar]

I been watching this on tv and it sucked. If their was any character development or reality they wouldn't of resigned to their fate. In fact smartest thing would of been for the both of them to abandon their clans and go live peacefully as a married couple. Or stop the fighting or die trying. But instead they just let it drag them on. In fact when she was going to get raped she still acted like a big unrealistic baby. Realistically you are most likely going to kill yourself after that than live with such a man and give birth to such a man's baby.

Nothing is drawing me into it at all. Even tho it's on Tv and cost nothing to watch I got better things to watch I can tell this show sucks big time. Iga is the real evil but neither side will win that is obvious. They are going to kill each other off.. That is obvious. But poorly done since the two that are suppose to love each other are doing nothing to save their love but letting it all happen.

[Evil Rick]

Many of you say you saw the anime, but seems you don't understeand his message: THE STUPID TATH IS THE WAR!!!

Just Think about it, they start to kill each other without even known each other, just because a scroll say tath they must figth, We may think tath the scroll is the goberment and the Iga and Kouga are the soldiers tath figth witouth know exactly why. Wath is the result? Tath no one are going to live and all will just die.

Don't say "Why they don't just figth for his love and let thr rest of them kill each other?" Oboro and Genosuke were the liders and they just can't let there people down or let them die, plus they don't know of the declaration of war until there was to late to stop the other ninjas

[HunterSeeker]

Originally Posted by Icehawk

The only thing I disliked about the ending was....

Spoiler:

Gennosuke choosing to take his life at the end, It would have been far more interesting to see him be strong and chose to live on. Oboro gave her life so that he could live and for him to take the cliche emo route and off himself as well just felt forced and uneccessary. I realize its supposed to be a tragic ending but it would still have been plenty tragic enough even if he survived and went off on his own.

Spoiler:

But on the otehr hand, he can't live without her IMO (they both fought hard for a lasting peace between 2 clans so they can be together). That's why the logic will flow to a point that he'll commit suicide.

I just love this. Though I only started watching from halfway, it shocks me a lot. Probably among my top favourite TV anime.

[incube]

I got to admit this anime has a really nice artwork and a quite realistic plot but it was kinda boring sometimes.... maybe because the story was predictable and the abilities of most of the ninjas were simply illogical and stupid... turning into mud.. moving your hair... and the elastic old man LOL

[Synria_]

Just watched this and I got hooked after the first 2 eps or so. Design is different from what I usually see and overall a good action anime. The only downside is that there is no originality - classic tale if I do say so myself. I mean if you can be sure of the ending before you reach the ending... that's pretty bad. I give it 7.5/10.

Question on something though:

Spoiler for regarding ending:

Apparently the peace treaty was made by Hanzo and his sons still wield some power, why are they vital to the shogun, and how did they become so important...

[incube]

Well finally the last episode ended. Although it was expected, the bitter sensation is definitly there and worst of all is that i knew i would feel like this from the beginning =(

Now after finishing it i think i should give it a bit more of credit since, unlike most of nowadays animes, Basilisk actually has a real conclusion, not just a random rushed ending because they are out of episodes.
Maybe the idea was for us to know the ending from the beginning but watching the chain of events till the very end is very different from just guessing it. Unlike other animes with same or more amount of bloody scenes out there, there is an actual meaning behind the cruelty shown in this anime. Every single person killed changed something but at the same time changed nothing.
Since not many ppl are reading this thread i'll stop here but if someone is interested in discussing this i'll be glad to =)

My rating of Basilisk now would be 8/10

[Synria_]

Actually I'd like to read what you have to say. I have been checking this forum to see if anyone has replied to my question too. Please elaborate more on:

Unlike other animes with same or more amount of bloody scenes out there, there is an actual meaning behind the cruelty shown in this anime. Every single person killed changed something but at the same time changed nothing.

I'd like to discuss.

[incube]

From a historical point of view we can say that the objective of nullifying the treaty was because of the threat of those 2 hidden villages to the empire. The shogun, Hanzo and the priest were all aware of this so to them the lives of those 20 ninjas were already finished by the time they gave out the scrolls. Even the 2 elders figured that out and thats why they just stabbed each other.
It could be said that the only way for both villages to survive as shinobi villages was to be enemies for ever. This way there would be some kind of balance in power and control so they wont turn into a threat to the shogun. That was why it was impossible for either the elders in the past nor Oboro and Genosuke to be together. They tried to escape the reality by pushing their responsibilities to the others until the very end when the only ones surviving where them. If you think about their last words about being one soul split in two and that they would try to find each other no matter the time nor place and hoping to find to find each other on their next life... it was as if the only thing they could blame of was being born at that time and place. Nor the shogun nor each of the shinobis could be blamed for their actions since they were all justified.

Originally Posted by molitar

I been watching this on tv and it sucked. If their was any character development or reality they wouldn't of resigned to their fate. In fact smartest thing would of been for the both of them to abandon their clans and go live peacefully as a married couple. Or stop the fighting or die trying. But instead they just let it drag them on. In fact when she was going to get raped she still acted like a big unrealistic baby. Realistically you are most likely going to kill yourself after that than live with such a man and give birth to such a man's baby.

That is what i thought at the beginning but then i realized i was watching a japanese historical series... honor, responsibility and fate arent just fancy words for them. Their own happiness and their responsibilities are the village leaders were both of same importance. The same goes to being raped by Tenzen, Oboro would have killed herself right away if she was just a normal woman but she was also the only heir of the Iga clan. For us and most the ppl nowadays our own life and happiness is above everything else it wasnt the same at that time.

[Synria_]

From a historical point of view we can say that the objective of nullifying the treaty was because of the threat of those 2 hidden villages to the empire. The shogun, Hanzo and the priest were all aware of this so to them the lives of those 20 ninjas were already finished by the time they gave out the scrolls. Even the 2 elders figured that out and thats why they just stabbed each other.

Here's what I have to say:

Spoiler for ending:

After reading up and re watching some scenes, the shogunate was in crisis because the current shogun had two sons and both wanted to rise to power. This also caused people within the government to start taking sides. The retired shogun along with Hanzo saw the possibility of a civil war within the shogunate. They did not want to lose their own guys killing each other and weakening the current government, so they called the two rival clans and asked if they wanted to participate in a "game" (they called it as such too - sucks). The clans said to nullify the peace treaty and they will gladly help and each clan represented one of the two sons that were competing to become the next shogun.

A key figure here is Tenzen because if Oboro and Gennosuke found out, they both would immediately talk it over and thus there could have been a prevention in this ninpou war. As you know, Tenzen ordered the killing of the only Kouga clan members that knew in the beginning what was going on. Also, since each clan already had so much hatred for each other, it was nearly impossible to talk it over at this point, especially after Tenzen's actions. Evidently, they just continued to kill each other, because now they wanted revenge for their lost comrades.

There are also reasons why Tenzen did what he did, but I won't explain that now. I will if you want me to.

It sucks because I think Gennosuke and Oboro at the end, could have just killed everyone and lived their own lives, but I don't know what pressured Oboro to kill herself so hastily. Part of it is what you said, if a clan member lived, then there will always be hatred, but this is arguable, since I'm sure oboro and gennosuke could have worked things out.

Maybe oboro thought that if they both lived, more people would have died. There would be conflict over the successor of the shogun and a weak government might affect the two clans. Even with this, i'm upset that both of the clan leaders suicided, when they both could have lived and talked it over, after realizing that they were only part of a game.

Does anyone why Oboro decided to kill herself... HELP ME!!

[incube]

I understand what you say but i dont agree in some parts. Tenzen wasnt the cause for both clan to hate each other for over 400 years. He is only the product of that hatred, the same as most of the other clan members.

There is chinese proverb (japanese too i think) : Killing 2 birds with one arrow would be the literal translation. Although the apparent reason for nullifying was to choose the next shogun, the true reason for this was to exterminate both shinobi clans so they wouldn't become a threat in the future. The priest was the one suggesting this "competition" but the shogun understood the real meaning. There was no need to sacrifice the future of 2 villages but with this they could solve 2 problems at once. The show in the castle was for the shogun to confirm their powers and decide whether it was necessary to eliminate them or not.

And about Oboro and Genosuke commiting suicide at the end. As i said in my previous post, the way of thinknig and doing things in that era was different from nowadays. And it is also different between occidental nobility and asian. The reason why they killed themselves was that if they really escaped both their villages would be wiped out since they didnt follow the orders of the shogun and the other reason but not less important is that their comrades in a way also died to protect them since they are both the leaders of both clans so there was no way they could live on with that. They could care less who was going to be the next shogun or the politic disputs since they lived their entire lives in seclusion. The only way they could ever protect their villages was that all the ppl in the scroll were dead.

[Synria_]

Yah I didn't mean Tenzen is the cause of the hatred, I meant he is the cause for getting the battle so deep. He had a hatred for the kouga because of his history and he had his own ambitions (like when he wanted oboro to be his wife so he can becoming king or something), he made sure that the battle continued rather than letting the leaders talk it over. If he did not instigate first blood, then there probably wouldn't have been a ninpou war, but pretty much as long as he was alive, the rivalry would remain. Sadly he was also one of the last to remain after everyone died.

I didn't look at it as the shogun trying to eliminate clans dangerous to their regime. I never thought of it this way really and don't know what to think about it now.

And about them killing themselves, it is hard for me to accept that they were following orders. Not sure if the shogun would go after their villages either, but I know that the epilogue showed that both clans are now prospering. Your theory probably makes the most sense regardless.

[deltakano]

Did anyone get the Romeo and Juliet feel off this anime? The two tragically flawed characters who are star crossed lovers that are torn between their love and family (respective ninja clans)... If you read Romeo and Juliet, then you would feel that some of the plot is very predictable even though the animation and execution of the plot was fantastic.

[incube]

Synria: Although from our point of view Tenzen is the bad guy making everyone unhappy, if you think about his own history you willl see that he was the one with the most tragic and sad past. I cant blame him for seeking revenge and we got to remember that although he was the one provoking both sides, if there wasnt a strong hatred between them already he coudnt do anything.

To make things clearer...
The objective was to destroy both shinobi clans.
The official excuse was the competition to choose the next shogun.
The reason would be the threat of those monstrous powers the shinobi held.

In ancient japan, loyalty towards the shogun or masters was something serious... sacrificing themselves for their masters was a honor. Even nowadays the japanese ppl have very strong morals and disciplines.

deltakano: although i does have the tragical romance thing of romeo and juliet, i think this story has more than just love between 2 ppl. The burden Oboro and Genosuke carried was much more than Romeo and Juliet and way more tragic and dark.

[Synria_]

How did you get your theory that the objective was to destroy both shinobi clans? Did you determine this from the anime or speculation based on cultural history? Not to trying say you are wrong... i'm just curious. (You make more sense than the stuff I have come up with)

[deltakano]

Originally Posted by incube

Synria: Although from our point of view
deltakano: although i does have the tragical romance thing of romeo and juliet, i think this story has more than just love between 2 ppl. The burden Oboro and Genosuke carried was much more than Romeo and Juliet and way more tragic and dark.

Romeo and Juliet's families are absolutely devastated since they were both "heirs" to the families they were in. In addition to their tragic love, all the people who were closely related to them also met tragic ends (either by Romeo or his clan mates). Mercutio dies, Tibault dies... Basilisk follows almost every twist in Shakespeare's novel...

Apart from that, to have an anime version that looks so much better and have a samurai feel is so much better than Shakespeare's edition in my opinion. :P

Ancient Japanese setting > Italian setting