Code Geass R2 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

That's beginning to be annoying all this talk about "nunnaly isn't dead".
Seriously there is no point in repeating the same thing over and over again.
Every time I come on this forum all I read is this... I don't mean to be rude here... but just don't talk about that anymore! (At least till the time we saw Nunnaly alive in episode 34 ( ehem) ... and at that moment come and tell "you see you see i was telling the truth back then".)

But now there is absolutely NO POINT in talking about that!
Just cut it out already!

Normally i would agree with you but Nunnally's death or lack there of is actually a point of interest to some and although it should be in the speculation thread some of us do not have time to troll through 82 pages for info regarding the opinions of everyone. Nunnally being alive or dead is in direct relation to Lelouch's motives and emotional state as he tends to make huge emotional changes when it comes to her or anyone else he actually cares about. Try reading the discussion that was being hashed out before you lash out. Everyone made valid points im not trying to be mean but remember everyone has the right to their own opinion including you.

[KingOfWorlds]

Originally Posted by rpgman1

Think of the chess game between Schneizel and Zero. You have to what moves your opponent make, so you anticipate their next move and counter. It's really weird that Lelouch was going to die and admit defeat, but Rolo bailed him out at the last minute. Schneizel was wondering why his father was in Area 11. He was curious and wanted to know why, but continues fighting against the Order. Maybe he wanted to see Geass firsthand.

If thats the case if it is something deep between Schneizel and Charles then you know Schneizel was involved in Lelouch's mothers death

[KingOfWorlds]

Originally Posted by Eiontalos

The problem I had with Nunnally's death was it had almost no impact on me at all. She wasn't shown to be conclusively dead in the episode just some pink light that could have been reflection or just there for dramatic effect. Now if they had shown her ship getting obliterated by freya it would have left little doubt that she was dead. Then on the website they had all the people in the Freya blast listed as missing for a week. So by the time we find out she is dead there is a new episode and with a much more emotional death scene. Hell even now I not 100% convinced she's dead just in the high 90s.

I dont even think Nunnally's death was suppose 2 be heart-touching. I think Lelouch's reaction was suppose 2 b wat they intended to be heart-felt. To prove the point of the storyline

[KingOfWorlds]

Originally Posted by Var

Did you think the way they killed Nunally was unfitting for a character of her importance? It was sudden and unexpected but I found it fitting. I think this is more a conflict of preference than actual presentation.

Sure we all knew he wasn't going to die there, and I agree that it was to set up Rolo, but I do not agree that it was somehow out of character or incorrectly done. I was completely unsurprised by the course of action the Order took. As I said, this is a conflict of preference not presentation.


Seeing as how letters can equal whatever the fuck I want them too, I think that equation works just fine.


I believe they were incredibly paranoid, in fact I think that is what Schneizel was doing when talking to them, working off their paranoia and fear to make them betray Zero. You saw them react negatively when he said that even he could be Geassed and they all started wondering if they themselves had been Geassed. There was clear paranoia there. And unlike Schneizel, they have no idea how the Geass work beyond a loose mention by Schneizel

As for Diethard, did you miss the fact that he was the one who tried to stand up for Zero? The man was the least taken by Schneizel's bullshit but when the majority rules he had little choice. Hence why he was holding a camera, not a gun. The man had his own initiative, he did not care about Geass, he just had his story.

You typed alot of shit so i basically bold everything i agree with which was basically everything. In the very beginning C.C. said Geass was the Power Of Kings, and the one who wields the power of destined for pain and solitude. Which makes sense due to all the loses Lelouch had and all the people and burdens he carry on his shoulders by himself. If Nunnally didnt die or comes back after people think that shes dead ... it would completely throw off the reason for change in Lelouch's character, it would really fuck it up for me if Nunnally came back to life, because it'll mean the sacrifices of his actions, which part of the storyline, would be meaningless.


Yeah I knew he wasnt going to die too but at the same time i didnt know what to expect. I think Rolo's death perfectly done, throw out the episodes he was in, it showed that he was willing to do anything for Lelouch, because for the first time he had a real family, matter of fact he never called Lelouch by his name at all .. he always called him Brother (or Nii-San, which means big brother in Japanese). Nobody seemed to truly understand that he was mentally screwed up, he was brought into the Order was a TRAINED KILLER since he can remember, and he "killed so many people he lost count" <-- Rolo's words. Things like that can damage a child's brain mentally. And knowing all this, I think the death that gave Rolo was right on point.


"Seeing as how letters can equal whatever the fuck I want them too, I think that equation works just fine. ;" <-- that was funny.


I agree with you again, I think they were paranoid too now that i watched the episode over again, because when he mentioned Geass and the ability, because of their reaction, Schneizel smirked because he realized they had no knowledge of Geass or anything like that, which he might have thought they would. So going on that, he can pretty make up anything and they'll believe it. And what added on to it is when he pulled the list out, they didn't about where he possibly got it from, but they were going off on how some of the people were acting strange. And the fact that the dude (i forgot his name) told Todou that Zero ordered a slaughter on numerous men, woman and children.


And i agree with you on the Diethard thing too

[Franckisted]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Normally i would agree with you but Nunnally's death or lack there of is actually a point of interest to some and although it should be in the speculation thread some of us do not have time to troll through 82 pages for info regarding the opinions of everyone. Nunnally being alive or dead is in direct relation to Lelouch's motives and emotional state as he tends to make huge emotional changes when it comes to her or anyone else he actually cares about. Try reading the discussion that was being hashed out before you lash out. Everyone made valid points im not trying to be mean but remember everyone has the right to their own opinion including you.

I was once also telling "nunnaly isn't dead", but once the chart was updated I stopped telling that.


And now, all I'm telling is stop with the "nunnaly isn't dead and have a geass and is a spy from charles and was teleported or is on jupiter" or whatever...

Talk all other thing you want about Nunnaly. The fact that she is dead doesn't imply that we can't talk about her anymore! (Look at Rollo topic)

But her being listed as "dead" OFFICIALLY there is no point in talking about Mark-Nemo, spy, geass, not dead , teleported, jupiter etc.

Now make assumption/theory about her being in "world of C" (or the place were C.C. and Charles were talking to the deads) "not real sister" and whatever you want, I don't care about that!

Just stop telling she is not dead. That is until she show up healthy and all in front of Lelouch... if that ever happen.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

I was once also telling "nunnaly isn't dead", but once the chart was updated I stopped telling that.


And now, all I'm telling is stop with the "nunnaly isn't dead and have a geass and is a spy from charles and was teleported or is on jupiter" or whatever...

Talk all other thing you want about Nunnaly. The fact that she is dead doesn't imply that we can't talk about her anymore! (Look at Rollo topic)

But her being listed as "dead" OFFICIALLY there is no point in talking about Mark-Nemo, spy, geass, not dead , teleported, jupiter etc.

Now make assumption/theory about her being in "world of C" (or the place were C.C. and Charles were talking to the deads) "not real sister" and whatever you want, I don't care about that!

Just stop telling she is not dead. That is until she show up healthy and all in front of Lelouch... if that ever happen.

By saying that you open another can of worms with this OFFICALLY DEAD example why would they let us know she is not dead spoiling the story? But i hear you i was just trying to make a point. Matter is settled.

[Franckisted]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

By saying that you open another can of worms with this OFFICALLY DEAD example why would they let us know she is not dead spoiling the story? But i hear you i was just trying to make a point. Matter is settled.

Yes and Shirley and Euphie also aren't dead.

As I was saying, no point in talkin about this until further information, because all we see is:

"Nunnaly isn't dead it's a mislead"
"Nunnaly is dead it's official"

And etc.

All I call this, after 2-3 times, it's flood! I don't have another word to express it.

[Utau]

Originally Posted by Franckisted

Yes and Shirley and Euphie also aren't dead.

As I was saying, no point in talkin about this until further information, because all we see is:

"Nunnaly isn't dead it's a mislead"
"Nunnaly is dead it's official"

And etc.

Let's not forgot that both Euphy and Shirley died in Zero's hand. And that my friend brought an end point on their roles, wherein in Nunnaly and Sayoko's case we only last saw them inside the ship that was suppose to take them to Zero. There's still a point in talking about her death since some of the viewers aren't that pleased with how she was casted out just like that.

Orange-kun and Lulu still hasn't lost hope so why should we?

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Anzu

Let's not forgot that both Euphy and Shirley died in Zero's hand. And that my friend brought an end point on their roles, wherein in Nunnaly and Sayoko's case we only last saw them inside the ship that was suppose to take them to Zero. There's still a point in talking about her death since some of the viewers aren't that pleased with how she was casted out just like that.

Orange-kun and Lulu still hasn't lost hope so why should we?

Thank god someone else is getting it. If we are having a serious discussion about Nunnally and her impact on the series then i think its justified. If its just flaming then yes i do agree with you Franckisted. Sigh but once again i am asking you to look at the context in which posts are written not just the fact that it has Nunnally's name in it.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Var

And I have a degree in Physics, English, and soon-to-be Japanese. Not sure what college degrees have to with anything. Given I do not have a degree in Theater but I believe my experience with stories and how they are told allow me some insight on theatricality and the techniques of telling a story.

I was just responding back to your statement saying you don’t know what Literature I’ve read…Being and English and Theater student I’ve read a virtual $hitload of stuff on theatrical and literary techniques…From Aristotle’s founding literary teachings, to basic concepts on things like foreshadowing, flashbacks, identifiers, red-herrings, (This is one reason I love the show LOST)…In any event this doesn’t make me any kind of overt expert or anything, but it does give me an anchor when discussing how I feel about certain things…If you truly are an 18 year old with multiple collegiate degrees with the time to discuss CG and makes gifs for people it shouldn’t be too hard to understand that…Whether or not this is believable, as in your episode analysis, it’s just the result that matters, right?

Now, let's get one point out of the way: I am not arguing against the dramatic set up. Hell if you bother reading the original post I made, I agreed with you. What I have a problem with is that you seem insistent on throwing around the words, or in this case acronym, OOC. That is what I disagree with.

I think it’s time you realize that when I say OOC and when I said it originally I said it to mean it felt out of character and weird for the episode itself…Based on the course the episode was taking…When it skipped the beat it made the character’s actions weird and OOC to me by default…Now while making this argument it is quite easy to ebb and flow in and out of greater character arching to diverge or combine points of debate….For example I thought Schniezel’s lack of obligatory verbiage leading up to this disconnecting scene was a bit OOC to the character he has created (Which is quite limited, less we forget Schnizzle hardly has much depth as a character despite the episode number we have reached), but for the episode itself it still felt OOC based on the skipped content hidden to set-up the twist…You cannot deny content was intentionally skipped in this episode to set this up…When you skip content you very well can skew the end result regardless of the fact what happens is in the realm of possibility (More on this later)…

I am not sure why you find it so hard to believe that a man who can, after being surprised be able to so quickly pick himself up and act is not the equivalent of someone smirking like a moron. A smirk does not have to imply that the man has a plan up his ass, he could simply be amused. Another form of showing, guess what, surprise. Someone who is able to recover from a situation quickly is usually assumed to be someone with ammunition in his gun. Further this into the fact that it is Schneizel, a man who plans for everything, and I do not see how his ability to regain composure so quickly does not raise even the slightest flag that maybe, just maybe, he has other plans whirling in his head.

I do not find it hard to believe…I’m just not so swept-up in this writing staff’s style that I’m gonna forget some basic literary techniques and indicators that slightly betrayed this one aspect of the episode…The scene of Schnizzle, Cornelia, and the assistant going WTF-Face 2008 was not centric to Schniezel so you can throw that $hit outta the window…As fun as this writing staff has been at times, they are not a very detailed oriented writing staff…Schniezel is more of a myth than he is a well-developed character…I’d been saying this for weeks as one of my gripe was that he is merely a silhouette at best…That doesn’t change the fact that he is cool or whatever or his bottomline effect on the plot, but his “plan for everything” aura of mysterioso is your deal not mine…That’s not even close to enuff to convince me to ignore the chain of events in this episode that led to what I am discussing…I guess your just swept up in Scniezel l33tness to see what I saw (or better yet the lack thereof)…

So again, as I said before, you are pushing your perspective onto something as if it were law. There are many ways to show that a character is planning something aside from smirking, uncanny composure happens to be one of them.

Dude I just said smirking after Ougi did his whole speech could have given an indication to the audience that something more was in store, not that smirking is the end all be all in literary indicators…Sheeesh…But moreover an evil smirk does wonders over that of a surprise face that was centric to no one…

No, that is simply furthering the point. My point is that the witch hunt Schneizel started with his fear-centric campaign is where the other letters came from. This was a Salem Witch Hunt at its finest. There was no physical evidence of anything, there was circumstancial evidence and an idiot Ougi with a Britannian in toe. Diethard had the right idea, as did Tamaki, in questioning the nonsense. Once Ougi started blabbering about shit he did not even understand or know about (I do not know why the Order did not question the fucking Britannian woman standing behind him) is where the fear began setting in and finally Schneizel threw in the 'I cannot guarantee that I myself am not geassed, truly fearful thing'. With Ougi countering Diethard's logic by making a fear-claim of 'Oh but what if he used it on us'. It became a Salem Witch Hunt with the only evidence being provided by Britannia. 'She's a witch.' There is your development and timecode. Go watch it. Its called scare tactics and its called a witch hunt.With Schneizel never even stating he wanted Lelouch alive, and using the above method of turning the Order against Lelouch, I do not see how you did not expect them to try and kill him. What happened after was the continuation of the idea of a witch hunt.

I don’t care if it was a Salem Witch Hunt or a carton of Salem Lights, it was not a logical progression (based on all the $hit I’ve repeated a thousand times now)…The Order ignoring Villetta is merely another instant amongst the many that belies a detail oriented writing staff…But more to the point here, just because what winds up happening is in the realm of possibilities of what could have happened doesn’t mean getting there supports the character interaction to that point…If Brittania guards would have surrounded Zero with the BK’s still standing there pi$$ed off and screaming at Zero that could have still worked within a certain framework…The fact that the Knights are guns-blazing, ready to shoot on sight goes more toward a literary effect than a practical one (and I consider a certain practicality even if this was suppose to be irrational, because a more irrational and paranoid crowd would have been far more irrational and paranoid…This wasn’t some lady in the village people heard 3rd hand about and ran off to get there pitchforks, this was someone they trusted as their leader, with some having a seemingly personal relationship with, so if they were so off the deep end with fear and paranoia as you claim, they would have killed his a$$, either with Kallen there or immediately following that…That’s what makes it OOC because they didn’t fulfill the full paranoia, kill’em by any means angle nor did they just sit back and let Schniezel deal with him as the request was made prior to them skipping some content…They stood there as written characters waiting for a theatrical plot-twist)..

Again you care more with defending the end result than you care about the progression with getting there...

And for the love of the debate, stop focusing on a single line and look at the scene. The mood, circumstances, and above all the other words that were said. 'Hand over my brother' does not float well as being 'Give him to me alive' when you've been goading a group of people by their fears of being under the effects of an unknown magical power that could make them do anything.

Saying “can you please hand my brother over” has a certain connotation with it…The lack of saying explicitly I want him dead also has this…IMO this leans more toward non-death than death because to ask for him to be dead would be more emphatic…Ambiguity here leans more toward the “lack of” rather than the “pursuit of”…Tied together with Schnizzle’s earlier comments to Lulu and his pension for intellectual superiority over a worthy opponent, I’m far more inclined to believe a lack of clear death with that statement rather than a pursuit of clear death…With the ever-present lack of content that was deprived from the audience to support the twist, it makes his aloof attitude at the end of the episode appear OOC…

And again, I never disagreed with what was being set up. I disagreed with insitently calling it OOC. I'm claiming to know the answer just as much as you yourself are, otherwise there would be no debate here. A debate cannot start unless two people hold onto two different truths, that is the heart of a debate.

I believe I’ve already addressed this in my first passage…

And again, I do not agree. It took its step full well by using scare tactics and starting an outright witch hunt. And as I said, I was not surprised at all by what happened and did, in fact, expect it from what I had seen during the negotiations. Why? Because one: I did not expect Schneizel to try again to capture someone who keeps escaping and now knows has a dangerous power, two: scare tactics and witch hunts =/= peaceful turn overs, and three: everyone but Diethard is an idiot.

The depth of your witch-hunt theory is obtuse to say the least…Man you got some faith in some very rudimentary writing techniques there…I mean based on other interactions with you on certain episode elements you seem to have for more trust and faith in the writing staff than I do…Over the weeks you’ve questioned many of my viewpoints on what I deem to be bull$hit in this show…And it’s all good, because despite the fact I find the writing staff to be very lazy at times with details so they can amp up the twists there are many that I do find acceptable…I like over-the-top theatrics quite a lot when it is done right, but here I didn’t find it to be that good…I mean I have written by now thousands and thousands of words describing something I understood in an instant of seeing it, yet I didn’t kill the ep for me or anything…It was just really apparent…The fact that you can’t see this speaks of an overall different mode of thinking while viewing this show…I’m just kinda good at spotting bull$hit is all, it’s almost my geass…

Hope you enjoyed it, because I betrayed my rule of never super-quoting just for you, not unlike this ep betrayed what I have been discussing for what seems like months now…

[Franckisted]

But I DO understand you, and I think the SAME about Nunnaly. Yes! The SAME.

But, like I told you, telling the same thing multiple times isn't helping.

in the last 4-5 days (not including today), I came 8-10 times (2 times a day ) on this forum, and in 2-3 topics (not specially the sames) , every times, on the last 10 messages or so, there was someone telling "nunnaly isn't dead" (and 2-3 other persons that were responding to this post), so excuse me if I went a little overboard here, but that was just.. too much for me to take.

I mean this show isn't just about to know if she is dead or not... >_>

And, you must take in account that there isn't much facts to talk about here. And it was (for the past 4-5 days) all the same message "nunnaly isn't dead, she used her geass, she was teleported, she has a disappointed dead, it just a mislead, it was 2 ships etc."

Nothing new here. So that why it was exasperating.

Repeating the same facts over and over again... there is no point in that.
And until we have further information, this fact will be true.

Do we agree here or not?


Oh well... I'm telling "there is no point" but I'm contradicting myself, as I'm continuing to talk...

Well, last message about Nunnaly "death"... >_>

[Var]

I don't really have time to keep doing this everyday...

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I was just responding back to your statement saying you don’t know what Literature I’ve read…Being and English and Theater student I’ve read a virtual $hitload of stuff on theatrical and literary techniques…From Aristotle’s founding literary teachings, to basic concepts on things like foreshadowing, flashbacks, identifiers, red-herrings, (This is one reason I love the show LOST)…In any event this doesn’t make me any kind of overt expert or anything, but it does give me an anchor when discussing how I feel about certain things…If you truly are an 18 year old with multiple collegiate degrees with the time to discuss CG and makes gifs for people it shouldn’t be too hard to understand that…Whether or not this is believable, as in your episode analysis, it’s just the result that matters, right?

Fair enough, but me sighting that I do have experience in the field of English Literature, or in general Literature as that is what is usually implied by classes within the major field of English, serves to at least tell you I am at least somewhat aware of literary method. Certainly, I admit, I am to no degree as versed in it as you, but I can cite enough past experience to argue my points.

And gifs take all of 3 seconds to make when you have a program that does it for you. The only thing I have to do is add borders and host it.

And I hate when people bring up my age as some sort of flag towards the merit of my words. So I'm younger than most people in college, whooptifuckingdo. And its not multiple, its two. Double majors are hardly unheard of, with most of the people in my classes/work area carrying degrees in at least two fields if not three. My best friend has three degrees he can shove up his ass.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I think it’s time you realize that when I say OOC and when I said it originally I said it to mean it felt out of character and weird for the episode itself…Based on the course the episode was taking…When it skipped the beat it made the character’s actions weird and OOC to me by default…Now while making this argument it is quite easy to ebb and flow in and out of greater character arching to diverge or combine points of debate….For example I thought Schniezel’s lack of obligatory verbiage leading up to this disconnecting scene was a bit OOC to the character he has created (Which is quite limited, less we forget Schnizzle hardly has much depth as a character despite the episode number we have reached), but for the episode itself it still felt OOC based on the skipped content hidden to set-up the twist…You cannot deny content was intentionally skipped in this episode to set this up…When you skip content you very well can skew the end result regardless of the fact what happens is in the realm of possibility (More on this later)…

Fine, now we're arguing pure opinion.

And again, I have no been arguing against the set of Rolo's entrance. I keep telling you this, yet you keep bring it up. My point is that they showed us enough for one to believe that they could have reached the conclusion they did. They were building Rolo's entrance since they just left him sitting by the Shinkuro without a word and then never showed him again. If you want to talk about skipping a step, its right there. They never showed Rolo getting over what Lelouch said. Hell, I was half expecting him to kill someone. Instead he came swooping in.

As for Schneizel, I do not understand what you mean by lack of verbiage. He was the one talking and using the scare-tactics during the meeting with the Order. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding something.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I do not find it hard to believe…I’m just not so swept-up in this writing staff’s style that I’m gonna forget some basic literary techniques and indicators that slightly betrayed this one aspect of the episode…The scene of Schnizzle, Cornelia, and the assistant going WTF-Face 2008 was not centric to Schniezel so you can throw that $hit outta the window…As fun as this writing staff has been at times, they are not a very detailed oriented writing staff…Schniezel is more of a myth than he is a well-developed character…I’d been saying this for weeks as one of my gripe was that he is merely a silhouette at best…That doesn’t change the fact that he is cool or whatever or his bottomline effect on the plot, but his “plan for everything” aura of mysterioso is your deal not mine…That’s not even close to enuff to convince me to ignore the chain of events in this episode that led to what I am discussing…I guess your just swept up in Scniezel l33tness to see what I saw (or better yet the lack thereof)…

I'm not swept up in their writing style either, as I have commented on 'sloppy' handling in the past. No, their surprise was not centric to Schneizel, and that is the point, they are all surprised but only Schneizel collects himself quickly and reacts. That is the defining difference. Its the same as if the other two were sitting stupefied while he smirks at Ougi.

I've never even bothered arguing that Schneizel is well developed. He has the depth of a cardboard cut out with stickers glued on to make him look pretty. But tell me, when has he not seemed prepared for everything? He quickly ducks out of China the moment the people start rebelling but we see an episode later that he had set in motion take over of other Chinese areas, he challenges Zero to Chess and quickly picks him apart, when Zero steals Tianzi he reacts quickly, all be it unhappily. The man has always been shown to have multiple plans lying in his head. He's never been shown caught off guard. Even when Lelouch escaped with Guilford, the man was just calmly sitting there while everyone else was 'wtf'ing like morons.

But fine, I won't convince you and your seemingly going to dismiss me as 'being swept up in l33t' so I might as well stop.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Dude I just said smirking after Ougi did his whole speech could have given an indication to the audience that something more was in store, not that smirking is the end all be all in literary indicators…Sheeesh…But moreover an evil smirk does wonders over that of a surprise face that was centric to no one…

And I just said that a man who can pick up his composure instantly is also an indication of more to come. Do you want a perfect example? Iago. He had both methods of conveying to the audience (barring his asides) that he had more in store for Othello. At times he'd be caught off guard but quickly compose himself and enact another plan. At other times he'd smirk and have an aside. Both methods are perfectly valid. Focusing on a smirk as being some how more informative is silly, in my opinion.

I will admit that the difference here is that Iago would be shown acting afterwards in either situation, whereas Schneizel is left on that note without further action, but even a smirk would have resulted in the same.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I don’t care if it was a Salem Witch Hunt or a carton of Salem Lights, it was not a logical progression (based on all the $hit I’ve repeated a thousand times now)…The Order ignoring Villetta is merely another instant amongst the many that belies a detail oriented writing staff…But more to the point here, just because what winds up happening is in the realm of possibilities of what could have happened doesn’t mean getting there supports the character interaction to that point…

But my point is that what occurred during the meeting could lead to the developments in the hangar. You cannot deny that he was using scare tactics. He was goading them on with nothing but their fears and circumstantial evidence. This is evident because of the varying reactions between the intelligent order members (read: Diethard) and the idiots sitting there eating it all up (read: Chiba).

Scare tactics can lead to a witch hunt especially when you add in betrayal and an idiot (Y)Ougi feeding the flames with paranoia. Or are you going to deny that as well?

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

If Brittania guards would have surrounded Zero with the BK’s still standing there pi$$ed off and screaming at Zero that could have still worked within a certain framework…The fact that the Knights are guns-blazing, ready to shoot on sight goes more toward a literary effect than a practical one (and I consider a certain practicality even if this was suppose to be irrational, because a more irrational and paranoid crowd would have been far more irrational and paranoid…This wasn’t some lady in the village people heard 3rd hand about and ran off to get there pitchforks, this was someone they trusted as their leader, with some having a seemingly personal relationship with, so if they were so off the deep end with fear and paranoia as you claim, they would have killed his a$$, either with Kallen there or immediately following that…That’s what makes it OOC because they didn’t fulfill the full paranoia, kill’em by any means angle nor did they just sit back and let Schniezel deal with him as the request was made prior to them skipping some content…They stood there as written characters waiting for a theatrical plot-twist)..

And again, I agreed that it was designed as a set up. But the difference you sighted is hardly a difference, what does it matter who holds the guns when the end is exactly the same? Even if the Britannians were there holding guns (which in theory they are with Mordred carrying Fleija of all things) you could still argue that a step is skipped because why would the scene go from 'turn him over' to 'let me point a gun at him while you stand there like idiots'.

Salem witch hunts hardly happened as you described them. All it took was one (usually jealous woman condemning another for being a witch in front of others). From there you'd have your 'tests' to see if she were a witch. But due to their fears, those tests always resulted in the death of the one in question. There was no talking, no trials, it was just 'She's a witch' and off they go.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Again you care more with defending the end result than you care about the progression with getting there...

And you seem to have never addressed the scare tactics campaign and the fact that it can very easily lead to what happened.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Saying “can you please hand my brother over” has a certain connotation with it…The lack of saying explicitly I want him dead also has this…IMO this leans more toward non-death than death because to ask for him to be dead would be more emphatic…Ambiguity here leans more toward the “lack of” rather than the “pursuit of”…Tied together with Schnizzle’s earlier comments to Lulu and his pension for intellectual superiority over a worthy opponent, I’m far more inclined to believe a lack of clear death with that statement rather than a pursuit of clear death…With the ever-present lack of content that was deprived from the audience to support the twist, it makes his aloof attitude at the end of the episode appear OOC…

Fine, in your opinion. In my opinion, saying 'hand over my brother' while employing scare tactics speak differently.

But his earlier comments and methods led him to getting duped by Lelouch because of Geass. You'd think the man would learn. That is why I have a problem with your OOC lines, you're forcing Schneizel to stay rigid when: he gets his 'I'm better than you speech' conveyed through his actions of beating Lelouch, and keeping Lelouch alive has been shown to him as being a great risk due to his Geass. Unless he himself thinks he knows everything ever about Geass, there is no safe way for him to approach Lelouch without some concern for the power.

And again, I agree that they took liberties in the set up but I do not agree that they were so out there as you claim.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The depth of your witch-hunt theory is obtuse to say the least…Man you got some faith in some very rudimentary writing techniques there…I mean based on other interactions with you on certain episode elements you seem to have for more trust and faith in the writing staff than I do…Over the weeks you’ve questioned many of my viewpoints on what I deem to be bull$hit in this show…And it’s all good, because despite the fact I find the writing staff to be very lazy at times with details so they can amp up the twists there are many that I do find acceptable…I like over-the-top theatrics quite a lot when it is done right, but here I didn’t find it to be that good…I mean I have written by now thousands and thousands of words describing something I understood in an instant of seeing it, yet I didn’t kill the ep for me or anything…It was just really apparent…The fact that you can’t see this speaks of an overall different mode of thinking while viewing this show…I’m just kinda good at spotting bull$hit is all, it’s almost my geass…

What other interactions? I do not remember ever discussing anything with you before barring a light action during Ep.8 where I did not even disagree with you but simply put forth a postulate of uncertainty. I have not even made comments to what you've said since then, as I usually agree with most of what you say. Are you confusing me with Krimzon?

As for the witch hunt theory, I do not see how it is obtuse but that is my own opinion as is your view of it being obtuse. Which brings us back to the original problem, we're arguing opinions nothing more.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Hope you enjoyed it, because I betrayed my rule of never super-quoting just for you, not unlike this ep betrayed what I have been discussing for what seems like months now…

What is super-quoting? I've never even heard the word being used before.

But this is fun but could we stop? I'm not going to be able to continue forever since right now I have the liberty of time due to running data collection, once we finish though, I'm not going to have time for 30+ minute replies.

[wingdarkness]

^You think I like doing this $hit? I thought my first 2 replies were enuff for the ages...

But I'm at work aswell and no doubt forgetting crucial workload stuff in pursuit of whatever this is...Maybe I'll say more, maybe not...STAY TUNED...

[Var]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^You think I like doing this $hit? I thought my first 2 replies were enuff for the ages...

But I'm at work aswell and no doubt forgetting crucial workload stuff in pursuit of whatever this is...Maybe I'll say more, maybe not...STAY TUNED...

Could we just stop? We've both put down what we want to say, I doubt we're going to change that.

[wtfftw]

OMG

I havent even watched the whole ep but just the opening with the death casulties is enough for me to say that

NINA and SuZAKU is worse then Hitler and Stalin put together lol 25 mil deaths ROFL thats plain global annihilation

I vote for Suzaku x Nina(retard combo) they fit together perfectly

I gave this ep a strait 10 the emotions simply went out of the roof. Rolo's death was so perfect. Lulu pushing Kallen away and saying to live on was so damn BADASS and pro xD.

I liked everything in this about lULu

SUzaku is officially a DARK person see Evil laugh

OoBK should be annihilated. I mean they ask for the independence for japan but not chain so isnt that betrayal too?

Anyway Lulu is gonna rock. SOLO FTW bro take em all down xD

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by wtfftw

OMG

I havent even watched the whole ep but just the opening with the death casulties is enough for me to say that

NINA and SuZAKU is worse then Hitler and Stalin put together lol 25 mil deaths ROFL thats plain global annihilation

You need to read up on history bud.

Throughout the ages different types of weapons were discovered completely by accident.

The guys who made the atom bomb regretted making it after they saw the devastation caused by it.

This puts Nina under that same category. She now has to carry that guilt through since she was responsible.

For Suzaku, well he has no will anyways.

But that doesn't make them Stalin or Hitler, get that straight and don't cheapen your arguments using those guys. It's childish.

[wtfftw]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

You need to read up on history bud.

Throughout the ages different types of weapons were discovered completely by accident.

The guys who made the atom bomb regretted making it after they saw the devastation caused by it.

This puts Nina under that same category. She now has to carry that guilt through since she was responsible.

For Suzaku, well he has no will anyways.

But that doesn't make them Stalin or Hitler, get that straight and don't cheapen your arguments using those guys. It's childish.

Read on history? ROFL. You wanna tell me i need to read on history but you talk about guys who regret making the a bomb cuz they regretted the devastation. SO ooh like "aaah damn we used to much nucleur power we shoudl scale it down a bit man shrugs". what of a dumb argment is that. Any human being that makes weapons just with the purpose of making sure more people can die is IMO mentally retarded. The world hasnt become any more save because of it.

Abd seriously if you reply with another dumb post i put you in the same category as nina. NO FREAKING WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION HAS BEEN CREATED BY ACCIDENT. Its all cuz 1 country race or whatever wants to kill another. Plain and simple. Cave men didnt just find a nuke lying in the ground ok. ALso no one Arms a submarine with a nuke BY accident so stop being so .........



Here is a hint for you soldier of darkness if you value human live dont be making crazy stuff like nukes and then be aah damn i made a nuke. Dont work at a company that makes stuff that kills people. Start there Thats the problem with Nina she is a pure fucking racist and uses science to get rid of elevens.

I aint talking bout every "different types of weapons" Why bother with this.

ALso because the guys who made atom bomb regretted it doenst mean they were people with morally right brains either. If you know what it can do dont use it. America has made i dont know countless of chemical weapons right. Do you think they actually need to use it before they know its bad to be using? My 12 year brother knows that shit is bad so dont use shit thats so fucked up it can kill millions of people. Its even more stupid to actually use it in combat or bring it to the battle field instead of just using it as a threat while its in the fridge.

If i had the perfect formula weapon to get rid of race black white asian I still wouldnt create that shit and i wouldnt even talk about it cuz its not needed plain dumb nonsense and any fool that by your so called accident creates stuff like that should be put in the ground

ALso READ what i said i said they is WORSE. I didnt say they ARE thats where you went wrong. Also like i have said before against you stop being so literal on everything i said and shit its annoying.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by wtfftw

Here is a hint for you soldier of darkness if you value human live dont be making crazy stuff like nukes and then be aah damn i made a nuke. Dont work at a company that makes stuff that kills people. Start there Thats the problem with Nina she is a pure fucking racist and uses science to get rid of elevens.

The thing your missing is that this type of weapon was never used before or even existed.

All Nina cared about was killing Zero and nothing else. She probably assumed that Zero was a japanese anyways but its him she wanted to kill.

For crying out loud she was screaming for Suzaku to kill Zero with the bomb despite the fact that they were right above the settlement and NOT in the ghetto. She was driven by rage and not logic at that time.

It took the bomb's detonation to snap her out of her rage and make her realize what she had done.

ALso because the guys who made atom bomb regretted it doenst mean they were people with morally right brains either. If you know what it can do dont use it. America has made i dont know countless of chemical weapons right. Do you think they actually need to use it before they know its bad to be using? My 12 year brother knows that shit is bad so dont use shit thats so fucked up it can kill millions of people. Its even more stupid to actually use it in combat or bring it to the battle field instead of just using it as a threat while its in the fridge

People make the decisions they make based on what they know at the time.

Your little brother knows it's bad because it's ALREADY been used and demonstrated.

And at the time with the war going on they wanted something that could speed things up.

ALso READ what i said i said they is WORSE. I didnt say they ARE thats where you went wrong. Also like i have said before against you stop being so literal on everything i said and shit its annoying.

Worse? They are not worse.

Suzaku has no will for himself so there's no way you can even put him on any level with them.

Nina was just a crazy woman who wanted revenge against the man who killed her idol.

If your talking about the casuality range then yes they killed far more people (though it's ridiculous that that area carried 10 million people...)

[eru_panda]

ZOMG!
is all i have to say.
im a girl of simple words.
O.^

[wtfftw]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

The thing your missing is that this type of weapon was never used before or even existed.

All Nina cared about was killing Zero and nothing else. She probably assumed that Zero was a japanese anyways but its him she wanted to kill.

For crying out loud she was screaming for Suzaku to kill Zero with the bomb despite the fact that they were right above the settlement and NOT in the ghetto. She was driven by rage and not logic at that time.

It took the bomb's detonation to snap her out of her rage and make her realize what she had done.

I do not need a demonstration to know a weapon of mass destruction is bad ok. I can pretty much tell that from a test. ALso WHich retarded fuck in this case the one your defending is gonna use a BOmb that can take out an entire city as a means to kill 1 person. Dude please explain me your logic in this cuz i dont get it.

Based on your reasoning or whatever it is your trying to say. Nina failed not cuz the people died. But because the FREIA blast apparently did not destroy enough. The flash did not reach lulu so she needs to make a bigger one to ensure next time he is caught in it right.

the rest of the stuff you wrote about nina ghetto and some stuff i just read over it cuz i dont wanna get into stuff which is plain nonsense sorry

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

People make the decisions they make based on what they know at the time.

Your little brother knows it's bad because it's ALREADY been used and demonstrated.

And at the time with the war going on they wanted something that could speed things up.

lol you still do not grask what im saying . Im saying that my lil bro knows that weapons that kill alot of people are bad and should not be used.

And here a news flash for you Me nor him have ever seen how or been demonstrated how chemical wepaons work or what it looks like and stuff. all we know is that its bad. Like if you told me you had magical powers that could destroy the world i would not ask you to show me cuz i know it would be bad cuz alot of people would die for no reason.

Thats why i dont NEED a demonstration to know nor my bro. However YOU and NINA do which is why so much SHIT is happening on this earth. Because you want a live demonstration. I dont i justneed to hear know it read on paper and I KNOW its bad. If i know i can make a virus that kills 100 people i dont need to put in practice i tried to say it like in 5 differentw ays examples but i feel this is enough and if it doenst help then i hope someone else can explain.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Worse? They are not worse.

Suzaku has no will for himself so there's no way you can even put him on any level with them.

Nina was just a crazy woman who wanted revenge against the man who killed her idol.

If your talking about the casuality range then yes they killed far more people (though it's ridiculous that that area carried 10 million people...)

Like i said you shouldnt take everything i said so literal. What part of that didnt you understand man. Its a fictional character its not real.

Yet you try to come with an argument on Nina being not worse i mean keep it real dude :S

I mean i thought its pretty obvious its an exxagration. Aside form the fact they killed more people in split seconds then hitler and stalin.