AnimeSuki Forums

Anh_Minh · 2009-02-20, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narona

Things a bit similar as that sometimes happens here in our universities.

Imagine that you have to get a 9/20 (on a 1 to 20 scale) GPA to pass. If you're at 8.70/10 and if you're a serious student, there is a chance that they let pass you.

Maybe it's the ex-teacher in me, but I don't see anything shocking about that. A 0.3 difference is well within the "margin of error" of grades, and a serious, if somewhat slow student isn't disruptive to the class, so what does it hurt? It's not like making him repeat the class is guaranteed to have beneficial effects.

Xellos-_^ · 2009-02-20, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe it's the ex-teacher in me, but I don't see anything shocking about that. A 0.3 difference is well within the "margin of error" of grades, and a serious, if somewhat slow student isn't disruptive to the class, so what does it hurt? It's not like making him repeat the class is guaranteed to have beneficial effects.

because he didn't earn it?

Anh_Minh · 2009-02-20, 15:55

Debatable. Grades depends on a lot of things that are completely outside the student's control - like the mood of the corrector, for example. Or how well the other students do. Or whether his paper is one of the first, or last to be graded. There's also the question of how well the exam questions were formulated. And so on, and so forth...

If there was a true, objective, accurate, reliable way to assess a students' knowledge and understanding of the material - sure, let's use that. But there isn't. Grades are convenient, but we shouldn't let them completely dominate our thinking. And let's remember that they're given by men, not made in heaven.

Most importantly, we've got to think about what's good for the student, the class, and the school. Whom is it going to help if the student pass? Whom is it going to inconvenience? What if he fails?

Vexx · 2009-02-20, 16:32

Learning isn't a hard sharp clear liine... a bit of "quantum fuzz" in the grading helps compensate for bias, bad hair day, poorly worded questions, etc.

Many people are quite proficient if not "put on the spot" (no reference materials test). Often they can run circles around test-taker-crambots in daily usage.

People simply don't tend to remember things "crammed" if you test them again a few weeks after a test.

Narona · 2009-02-20, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe it's the ex-teacher in me, but I don't see anything shocking about that. A 0.3 difference is well within the "margin of error" of grades, and a serious, if somewhat slow student isn't disruptive to the class, so what does it hurt? It's not like making him repeat the class is guaranteed to have beneficial effects.

I didn't say anything else that pointing the fact that it made me think to that o.o

Anyway, I don't have any opinion on that matter.

But maybe it's not fair, I think, in comparison with the people from preparatory classes for example. Correct me if I am wrong, but it is not like that in prep classes.

Anh_Minh · 2009-02-20, 17:14

I've never taught there (though I've studied there...)

Mostly, we all remember that it's really about the concours at the end of the second year. We don't really care about grades as such. Whether it's 8.7 or 9 or 10 doesn't matter nearly as much as "how well are you doing in comparison to your classmates?" or "is it in a subject that counts?"

Sure, some people don't make the cut and are booted out at the end of the first year. But they were clearly wasting their time anyway, since there's no way they could have beaten the others in the concours - it's not about a few points of difference.

Kamui4356 · 2009-02-20, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

because he didn't earn it?

An 8.7 rounds up to a 9. Since were talking about just barely passing vs failing, and the grade would round up anyway, why not. The student just got lucky the teacher was recording the grade to 1 signifigant digit.

That's a lot different than a kid who earns a low C trying to bargin for a B or even an A because they "worked hard". In that cass the student passes and gets the course credits either way and is just trying to get the higher grade so his gpa looks better.

guest · 2009-02-20, 21:29

Details from this article on cnet.com:

Data retention bills to benefit copyright holders

I think what it is saying is that large copy right holders are pursuing the government to pass a law that will require internet providers to keep the records (IP address? who and when is online?) for at least two years. A similar action had been taken by also large copy right holders to a committee of the European Parliament a few years back. I don't the outcome.

I fear that there will be no privacy on internet if this becomes reality. For every moment you are online, your activity is being recorded. For now, it is only when and where. Where will this stop? Recording everything you ever do on internet and keep that record for eternity? "You are guilty of threatening someone on internet by saying 'I am going to ban you' forty years ago"? Of course, there are beneficial sides of this but they are asking for every ISP and for everything. They are not just asking for passing this law for certain (suspicious) website only. I feel like more and more large groups are trying to control what they should not.

SeedFreedom · 2009-02-20, 21:39

I seriously doubt this will get passed the government, at least not here in North America. They couldn't even force google to hand over 2 years of search records.

Vexx · 2009-02-20, 22:09

Most bills like this never survive committee processes *as long as* interested parties are paying attention and let their congresscritters know they are paying attention.

Tri-ring · 2009-02-20, 22:32

This sounds like a terrible drain on the ISP resources since two years worth of traffic record will no doubtly be Terra bytes worth of information and finding connection through out the web would be no doubtly be months worth of processing time which may lead to nothing.
Trying to identify few packets of information going crisscross through out the world is really not worth it to actually trying to identify petty theft.

ClockWorkAngel · 2009-02-20, 22:51

I think it's to stop the use of the internet for child pr0n. Which seems to be at much higher importance than that of theft.

However regardless of the reason it probably isn't going to happen. It is too expensive and more than likely doesn't do anything but give leads. After all most if not all evidence would be circumstancial (Someone else was using the internet at that time)

Vexx · 2009-02-21, 00:12

Worse, apparently the details of the bill include requiring *anyone* who runs a wireless access point to keep logs for two years.... including home owners. I'd say this puppy is dead-before-arrival without a lot of "someone who has a clue" working on it.

Hari Michiru · 2009-02-21, 02:19

I hope they don't judge the grades by effort in the future while I'm still in school...because I get good grades, but don't try. =O

God forbid they ever make me try in subjects that are just brain dead easy, or common sense.

SeijiSensei · 2009-02-21, 09:34

Before anyone gets too bent out of shape by this, the notion of extending data retention periods for iSPs has been floating around for the past three years or so. Alberto Gonzalez pushed hard for this as Bush's Attorney General but never got very far.

The biggest problem for the government is that the ISPs don't want this obligation. I haven't read this bill's particulars, but usually they're intended to require ISPs to retain connection logs. For dialup connections, that usually means recording when the customer logged in and then logged out. For full-time connections like cable and DSL, they want the logs that record when an IP address was allocated to a customer and for how long. For ISPs with thousands or even millions of customers, that's a lot of record-keeping. The intent is to match IP addresses to specific customers in order to identify potential miscreants. The analogy is usually made to the call logs kept by telephone providers which law enforcement officials sometimes subpoena as part of a criminal investigation.

Declan McCullough likes to find MPAA/RIAA connivance behind any proposed legislation, but I'm pretty sure this particular item is intended to play to the "think-of-the-children" crowd so influential in conservative Republican circles. In fact, the few votes against the Copyright Act revisions passed last year came from Republicans; the Democrats were all happy to do Hollywood's bidding.

Frankly, I'm much more concerned with monitoring of content under the guise of "network management" than with bills like this one. With high-speed packet scanners becoming more and more capable and affordable, encryption will ultimately be the only way we can keep ISPs and governments from snooping around in our Internet traffic.

Shadow Kira01 · 2009-02-21, 13:15

Since the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had decided to make the American bilateral ties of the Obama Administration with China the closest, they will also be borrowing some of their policies and tactics. This ISP action in the United States will in the future serve the purpose of tracking down anti-war individuals, as well as people who show sympathy to the Middle East. Old tactic, new uses. It can also mean that the Republicans were right about one thing.. The new Obama Administration isn't going to be a democratic one but more of a socialist. However, at the start of the new policy, the American government wouldn't over do it meaning that anti-war individuals can chill out for the time being.

Hari Michiru · 2009-02-21, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Minato

Since the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had decided to make the American bilateral ties of the Obama Administration with China the closest, they will also be borrowing some of their policies and tactics. This ISP action in the United States will in the future serve the purpose of tracking down anti-war individuals, as well as people who show sympathy to the Middle East. Old tactic, new uses. It can also mean that the Republicans were right about one thing.. The new Obama Administration isn't going to be a democratic one but more of a socialist. However, at the start of the new policy, the American government wouldn't over do it meaning that anti-war individuals can chill out for the time being.

Well, at least America doesn't have a dying population, so socialism could work there xD. Unlike Canada, where our population is dying, and our health care program is slowly taking the toll.

ganbaru · 2009-02-21, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hari Michiru

Well, at least America doesn't have a dying population, so socialism could work there xD. Unlike Canada, where our population is dying, and our health care program is slowly taking the toll.

It'S not only in Canada , it's all country with a agging problem (Japan, Euope, North Ameria) than got this problem.

ZephyrLeanne · 2009-02-22, 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

It'S not only in Canada , it's all country with a agging problem (Japan, Euope, North Ameria) than got this problem.

It's the worst in two countries: Japan and Singapore.

Japan has an ageing and SHRINKING population, mind you, and the social penaion scheme is screwed up, with bungles being the norm.

And Singapore's catching on Japan, as with everything else.

mg1942 · 2009-02-23, 01:11

Activists: Oh nooees! Hillary Sells out!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090220...siachinarights

2009-02-20, 16:32	Link #1604
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Learning isn't a hard sharp clear liine... a bit of "quantum fuzz" in the grading helps compensate for bias, bad hair day, poorly worded questions, etc. Many people are quite proficient if not "put on the spot" (no reference materials test). Often they can run circles around test-taker-crambots in daily usage. People simply don't tend to remember things "crammed" if you test them again a few weeks after a test. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2009-02-20, 21:29	Link #1608
guest guess Join Date: Nov 2003	Large Copy right holders seeking ways to pass data retention bills Details from this article on cnet.com: Data retention bills to benefit copyright holders I think what it is saying is that large copy right holders are pursuing the government to pass a law that will require internet providers to keep the records (IP address? who and when is online?) for at least two years. A similar action had been taken by also large copy right holders to a committee of the European Parliament a few years back. I don't the outcome. I fear that there will be no privacy on internet if this becomes reality. For every moment you are online, your activity is being recorded. For now, it is only when and where. Where will this stop? Recording everything you ever do on internet and keep that record for eternity? "You are guilty of threatening someone on internet by saying 'I am going to ban you' forty years ago"? Of course, there are beneficial sides of this but they are asking for every ISP and for everything. They are not just asking for passing this law for certain (suspicious) website only. I feel like more and more large groups are trying to control what they should not. __________________

2009-02-20, 22:09	Link #1610
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Most bills like this never survive committee processes as long as interested parties are paying attention and let their congresscritters know they are paying attention. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2009-02-20, 22:51	Link #1612
ClockWorkAngel Aspiring Aspirer Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Canada Age: 32	I think it's to stop the use of the internet for child pr0n. Which seems to be at much higher importance than that of theft. However regardless of the reason it probably isn't going to happen. It is too expensive and more than likely doesn't do anything but give leads. After all most if not all evidence would be circumstancial (Someone else was using the internet at that time) __________________ Credit To Risa-chan!

2009-02-21, 00:12	Link #1613
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	Worse, apparently the details of the bill include requiring anyone who runs a wireless access point to keep logs for two years.... including home owners. I'd say this puppy is dead-before-arrival without a lot of "someone who has a clue" working on it. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2009-02-20, 15:55	Link #1603
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	Debatable. Grades depends on a lot of things that are completely outside the student's control - like the mood of the corrector, for example. Or how well the other students do. Or whether his paper is one of the first, or last to be graded. There's also the question of how well the exam questions were formulated. And so on, and so forth... If there was a true, objective, accurate, reliable way to assess a students' knowledge and understanding of the material - sure, let's use that. But there isn't. Grades are convenient, but we shouldn't let them completely dominate our thinking. And let's remember that they're given by men, not made in heaven. Most importantly, we've got to think about what's good for the student, the class, and the school. Whom is it going to help if the student pass? Whom is it going to inconvenience? What if he fails?

2009-02-20, 17:14	Link #1606
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	I've never taught there (though I've studied there...) Mostly, we all remember that it's really about the concours at the end of the second year. We don't really care about grades as such. Whether it's 8.7 or 9 or 10 doesn't matter nearly as much as "how well are you doing in comparison to your classmates?" or "is it in a subject that counts?" Sure, some people don't make the cut and are booted out at the end of the first year. But they were clearly wasting their time anyway, since there's no way they could have beaten the others in the concours - it's not about a few points of difference.

2009-02-20, 21:39	Link #1609
SeedFreedom Hina is my goddess Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2005	I seriously doubt this will get passed the government, at least not here in North America. They couldn't even force google to hand over 2 years of search records.

2009-02-20, 22:32	Link #1611
Tri-ring Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Land of the rising sun	This sounds like a terrible drain on the ISP resources since two years worth of traffic record will no doubtly be Terra bytes worth of information and finding connection through out the web would be no doubtly be months worth of processing time which may lead to nothing. Trying to identify few packets of information going crisscross through out the world is really not worth it to actually trying to identify petty theft.

2009-02-21, 02:19	Link #1614
Hari Michiru Insane Fangirl Author Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Home of the 2010 Olympics	I hope they don't judge the grades by effort in the future while I'm still in school...because I get good grades, but don't try. =O God forbid they ever make me try in subjects that are just brain dead easy, or common sense. __________________ Anime-Planet.com - anime \| manga \| reviews

2009-02-21, 09:34	Link #1615
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	Before anyone gets too bent out of shape by this, the notion of extending data retention periods for iSPs has been floating around for the past three years or so. Alberto Gonzalez pushed hard for this as Bush's Attorney General but never got very far. The biggest problem for the government is that the ISPs don't want this obligation. I haven't read this bill's particulars, but usually they're intended to require ISPs to retain connection logs. For dialup connections, that usually means recording when the customer logged in and then logged out. For full-time connections like cable and DSL, they want the logs that record when an IP address was allocated to a customer and for how long. For ISPs with thousands or even millions of customers, that's a lot of record-keeping. The intent is to match IP addresses to specific customers in order to identify potential miscreants. The analogy is usually made to the call logs kept by telephone providers which law enforcement officials sometimes subpoena as part of a criminal investigation. Declan McCullough likes to find MPAA/RIAA connivance behind any proposed legislation, but I'm pretty sure this particular item is intended to play to the "think-of-the-children" crowd so influential in conservative Republican circles. In fact, the few votes against the Copyright Act revisions passed last year came from Republicans; the Democrats were all happy to do Hollywood's bidding. Frankly, I'm much more concerned with monitoring of content under the guise of "network management" than with bills like this one. With high-speed packet scanners becoming more and more capable and affordable, encryption will ultimately be the only way we can keep ISPs and governments from snooping around in our Internet traffic. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2009-02-21, 13:15	Link #1616
Shadow Kira01 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: PMB Headquarters	Since the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had decided to make the American bilateral ties of the Obama Administration with China the closest, they will also be borrowing some of their policies and tactics. This ISP action in the United States will in the future serve the purpose of tracking down anti-war individuals, as well as people who show sympathy to the Middle East. Old tactic, new uses. It can also mean that the Republicans were right about one thing.. The new Obama Administration isn't going to be a democratic one but more of a socialist. However, at the start of the new policy, the American government wouldn't over do it meaning that anti-war individuals can chill out for the time being.

2009-02-23, 01:11	Link #1620
mg1942 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008	Activists: Oh nooees! Hillary Sells out! http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090220...siachinarights