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View Poll Results: Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 21 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 36 | 28.35% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 37 | 29.13% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 25 | 19.69% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 15 | 11.81% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 4 | 3.15% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 5 | 3.94% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 5 | 3.94% | |
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-11-20, 02:25 | Link #101 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Where you're not.
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It was Beatrice's mood change that was fake. Everything else was skillfully manipulated by Beatrice, but not fake. |
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2009-11-20, 07:50 | Link #106 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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So.... one day Bern will tell Meta-Ange about her story of Rika, and Meta-Ange will find her hero when it comes to using chair effectively inside a classroom ^^
Hmm... Ange denied Sakutarou (in 1995-1998) somehow lead or connect to the event when Sakutarou "died" in Maria's mind... (in 1984-1986). That's strange
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2009-11-20, 08:03 | Link #107 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Belgium
Age: 35
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2009-11-20, 08:08 | Link #108 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Also take note that Maria in that occasion said "You are no longer part of Mariage Sorciere!" and later in this episode Ange confirms that she was part of it but then she's got excommunicated.
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2009-11-20, 08:24 | Link #109 |
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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The problem is from Ange's POV (or illusion), until the moment Ange denied Sakutarou's existence (inside the classroom), Maria still believe in Sakutarou's existence . However, the next time Ange saw Sakutarou (on the boat), Sakutarou have already be denied (believed to be dead) by Maria. That's strange, isn't it?
Btw, a question, which's kind of related to Umineko. Not specifically to this episode, but this arc.... Spoiler for the end of Higurashi Kai, from Tips:
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2009-11-20, 08:45 | Link #110 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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That's a thing you can only explain from an anti-fantasy perspective.
The one that Ange sees is not Maria but her own delusion or a projection of the Maria in her memories, so Ange can still imagine Maria having fun with Sakutaro. However from an anti-mystery perspective I really don't know how you can justify this fact. Since the time Sakutaro was "killed" by Rosa, Maria was unable to summon him, and even Beatrice was unable to revive him.
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2009-11-20, 08:55 | Link #111 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Belgium
Age: 35
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untill the moment before saku-uryuu being killed she was reading the part where they were still together so she visualized them both but after that she stopped imaging him because maria said he was dead or something liek that |
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2009-11-20, 09:59 | Link #112 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Can anyone explain to me why the Stakes didn't listen to Ange and attack her classmates in this episode?
She's a witch. They're her furniture. Why wouldn't they obey her orders the same way they did under Beato as their master? The only way I can explain it is that they aren't real. Meta-Beatrice is obviously showing Battler a false series of events in the games. Also, her dorm mates, class mates and Juza don't ever witness them. The Stakes must be in her head. It's the same for Maria and Sakutaro. He/It? never talks in Rosa's presence. I'm beginning to think that there is the real Beatrice, Meta-Beatrice and the Beatrice Maria created in her head. Everything seems to stem from Maria. I hope this doesn't turn into another Paranoia Agent. Somehow Maria filled Ange's head with non-sense when they were young and it's now clouding their perception of events. |
2009-11-20, 10:09 | Link #113 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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2009-11-20, 10:16 | Link #115 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Unicorns don't exists whether you believe in them on not. It's just a distraction Beatrice is using trying to keep Battler from learning the cold hard "TRUTH." Whether magic exists or not is irrelevant to the actual murders on the island. |
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2009-11-20, 10:18 | Link #116 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
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1. The stakes couldn't take physical form because they had no vessel that would allow for them to house their spirits. Namely, their stake forms. 2. Ange's mentality. As i understand it, until she herself has killed someone and experience what it meant to kill & as well as the thought process behind it, the stakes couldn't replicate exactly what she wanted them to do. In the sound novel, they hurriedly tried to explain that, but naturally, Ange wouldn't have any of this. |
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2009-11-20, 10:20 | Link #117 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Can this be quantified and measured somehow? The Siestas didn't have any problem with Kryie, Rudolf and Hideyoshi. I would consider those three really rational people. Kryie's magic toxins alone could have probably killed every magic being on the island.
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2009-11-20, 10:22 | Link #118 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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Assuming it exists inside the board, of course.
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2009-11-20, 10:22 | Link #119 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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2009-11-20, 10:29 | Link #120 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
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Yep, it would seem so. Though i imagine it came about via magical means much like Eva-Beatrice. Which would explain why Eva had no problems with the stakes and later on with the Siestas. Seeing as Eva experienced it all through her fun & games with Rosa and Maria.
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