2020 US Presidential Election Discussion (primary & general)

[Guardian Enzo]

Make releasing his tax returns a pre-condition of debates. Clinton should have done that in 2016.

[SeijiSensei]

That won't happen. On the other hand, a virtual debate would keep Trump behind his podium and not let him loom over his opponent like he did in 2016. I still think that if Trump doesn't want to debate, the Democrats should have their own event and invite Alec Baldwin to take Trump's place.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by ramlaen

The best part is how you are clinging to polls like CBS's most recent giving Biden a +10 despite Biden and Trump's in party support being within 2% and Trump having a 10 point lead with independents.

Biden holds a nine-point lead in the FiveThirtyEight averages, so the CBS poll isn't an outlier.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...eral/national/

Biden's lead at The Economist is also about nine points.

https://projects.economist.com/us-20...cast/president

Polls of specific partisan groups are harder to find, but Morning Consult, hardly a pro-Democratic organ, has Biden up ten points in that group. From looking at polls over the past four years, independents attitudes' on most things closely mirror the split in the overall electorate. MC shows Biden leading among "likely voters" by ten points as well.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-pres...ction-tracker/

[Blueknight78]

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/08...rotests-965770
this is a exactly exemple of how stupid democrats are being, by allowing this happen, i'm pretty sure which many peoples living in portland which would vote for biden not gonna do it now, because they are living in a 'living hell" and democrats are just doing "nothing" and just giving trump a reason to act and make the peoples "goes to support him" since he is willing to do something and not just watch.

and the most fun which was the police don't go to "save" the mayor incompetent ass, the same police he desdain now he is getting the payback.

[ramlaen]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Biden holds a nine-point lead in the FiveThirtyEight averages, so the CBS poll isn't an outlier.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...eral/national/

Biden's lead at The Economist is also about nine points.

https://projects.economist.com/us-20...cast/president

Polls of specific partisan groups are harder to find, but Morning Consult, hardly a pro-Democratic organ, has Biden up ten points in that group. From looking at polls over the past four years, independents attitudes' on most things closely mirror the split in the overall electorate. MC shows Biden leading among "likely voters" by ten points as well.

https://morningconsult.com/2020-pres...ction-tracker/

Since you specifically mentioned Economist which actually gives detailed information about their poll.



Oh look just like I said, the same polling games that were played in 2016.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Make releasing his tax returns a pre-condition of debates. Clinton should have done that in 2016.

The fixation on Trump's tax returns is like watching a cat chase a laser pointer. You would think that after Rachel Maddow embarrassed herself that people would have wised up, but that would require self awareness and not memory holing it.

[DemonOfWrath]

And to the left of what you've highlighted it says unweighted. You might want to find out how they're weighting the results for anything released beyond the raw data (which is what that is) before you claim/imply their methodology is flawed. For all you know the weighting could account for that.

[SeijiSensei]

There are fewer people in the US who identify as Republicans so there are fewer of them in polls. Why is this so hard to understand?

Also people will college degrees are more likely to respond to pollsters and more likely to vote for Democrats. The latter part of that equation is a pretty new phenomenon. Nowadays all competent pollsters reweight by education so the gap in the weighted Ns is likely to be smaller than the gap in unweighted Ns. Republicans used to have a plurality of college-educated voters. Today the situation is reversed.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...groups/2_6-10/

[James Rye]

That's because the GOP actively denies reality. Just look at their convention, they were acting as if Covid was already long over and the President got a tremendous victory over the virus when in truth there are still around 1000 people dying each day in the US. If you got college education then that kind of reality denying is mind-boggling stupid. Just because you won't acknowledge that something exist doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's still there. Plus the governments action made the situation worse, the docs had casualties at like 120k max if lockdown had continued to push the infection rate down to below 5% as instructed but Trump and his goons insisting on ending it way earlier or in some cases not even entering it gave the virus plenty space to increase its own population among the US citizen. Like Florida was reopening when they had 18% infection rate, what did they expect to happen? That the virus disappears on its own because they wish for it very very hard? It is just stupid, especially since older voters are the GOP's most loyal troop so why risk their lives if they can't vote when they are dead?

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by James Rye

That's because the GOP actively denies reality. Just look at their convention, they were acting as if Covid was already long over and the President got a tremendous victory over the virus when in truth there are still around 1000 people dying each day in the US. If you got college education then that kind of reality denying is mind-boggling stupid. Just because you won't acknowledge that something exist doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's still there. Plus the governments action made the situation worse, the docs had casualties at like 120k max if lockdown had continued to push the infection rate down to below 5% as instructed but Trump and his goons insisting on ending it way earlier or in some cases not even entering it gave the virus plenty space to increase its own population among the US citizen. Like Florida was reopening when they had 18% infection rate, what did they expect to happen? That the virus disappears on its own because they wish for it very very hard? It is just stupid, especially since older voters are the GOP's most loyal troop so why risk their lives if they can't vote when they are dead?

to be fair you can't blame the "virus" only on GOP or trump, or right or republicans, the democrats or left have they share because of all the protesters which keep making aglomerations all over the places and no one is doing anything to stop it, neither democrats neither republicans, good part of the issue is on the peoples which prefer to risk they lifes in protests or riots than stay safe at home, also you can't "keep" forever in lockdown, none place which even did a strong lockdown was really safe and as soon they "opened" the virus started to spread again, or even with lockdown many peoples "died at home" trying to stay safe, because lockdown is not the "magical solution" to stop the virus, it was to "slowdown the virus spread" not to full prevent it.

[ramlaen]

Originally Posted by James Rye

That's because the GOP actively denies reality. Just look at their convention, they were acting as if Covid was already long over and the President got a tremendous victory over the virus when in truth there are still around 1000 people dying each day in the US. If you got college education then that kind of reality denying is mind-boggling stupid. Just because you won't acknowledge that something exist doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it's still there. Plus the governments action made the situation worse, the docs had casualties at like 120k max if lockdown had continued to push the infection rate down to below 5% as instructed but Trump and his goons insisting on ending it way earlier or in some cases not even entering it gave the virus plenty space to increase its own population among the US citizen. Like Florida was reopening when they had 18% infection rate, what did they expect to happen? That the virus disappears on its own because they wish for it very very hard? It is just stupid, especially since older voters are the GOP's most loyal troop so why risk their lives if they can't vote when they are dead?

Meanwhile if you 'protest' in support of BLM you are immune to COVID19.

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

to be fair you can't blame the "virus" only on GOP or trump, or right or republicans, the democrats or left have they share because of all the protesters which keep making aglomerations all over the places and no one is doing anything to stop it, neither democrats neither republicans, good part of the issue is on the peoples which prefer to risk they lifes in protests or riots than stay safe at home, also you can't "keep" forever in lockdown, none place which even did a strong lockdown was really safe and as soon they "opened" the virus started to spread again, or even with lockdown many peoples "died at home" trying to stay safe, because lockdown is not the "magical solution" to stop the virus, it was to "slowdown the virus spread" not to full prevent it.

Many are happy to be gaslit about the purpose of 'flattening the curve'.

[Key Board]

Some people have made the decision to risk infection and possibly die to covid rather than let a 14 year old lethal social disease go any further.

It’s a terrible choice to make, but this is America

//

[Blueknight78]

here more info:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...rump-joe-biden

see even biden is noticing a lot "later" his mistakes in keep giving support to all this chaos and which the fun side is which it's only happening on "democrate" areas, some news are even report which trump is starting to gain more support from "black peoples and latinos" as the chaos get worst, because peoples are getting tired of all this chaos and how
"democrats" are literally hidden in they houses "calling the police" to protect then from the same peoples they called "peacefull protesters" and were supporting the "ban police"(don't come with the is not a ban when you clear see peoples calling to remove the police) and doing nothing to protect the local citzens.

this is a great hypocrisy of them, when no one is "rioting they home" they are "fine peoples and peaceful protester", until they start to knock they homes too, democrats are bad as much as republicans if not worst, because at last the republicans don't try so much to hiden they bigocitry and hate as the democrats do.

[Key Board]

Police are openly siding with white nationalist.
There are people parading in Trump flags and trucks in Portland.
The president is agitating his followers to shoot people.

How can there be a peaceful protest after this. Even if people want to be peaceful, what much can they do to maintain it of you have right wingers intentionally agitating things and looking for a fight.

maybe it's a good time to remind people that the FBI warned us about this 14 years ago.
https://torres.house.gov/media-cente...filtration-law

And this is what's happening now.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...te-supremacist

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...tionist-terror

//

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Police are openly siding with white nationalist.
There are people parading in Trump flags and trucks in Portland.
The president is agitating his followers to shoot people.

How can there be a peaceful protest after this. Even if people want to be peaceful, what much can they do to maintain it of you have right wingers intentionally agitating things and looking for a fight.

maybe it's a good time to remind people that the FBI warned us about this 14 years ago.
https://torres.house.gov/media-cente...filtration-law


//

man you can be "less crazy" with conspirations theories please???", ok we already know which you are full BLM and bla bla bla, don't need to force this much...

the point is which this idiocity from democrats can cost then the election and give trump a easy victory since he "is trying to do something" and this what the "voters" are expectating, biden is "biding" which the "silencious majority will vote on him because they are scared to public support him, but based on all the crap happens i can say is the opposite the silence majority will ending voting from trump due to "anger" over democrats doing nothing to protect the peoples and allows all the chaos to happen.

[Key Board]

It's an official FBI report

Here is the link to the letter

https://torres.house.gov/sites/torre...nforcement.pdf

and this is the part of the report they are referring to

https://www.scribd.com/document/4639...een&from_embed

This "thing" will continue with or without Biden.

Their primary reason in changing the narrative is to stoke white fear.

The purpose isn't to make Biden voters change their minds. That opportunity has long passed.
The purpose is to make the Trump base that have doubts about Trump commit to vote.


//

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Key Board

It's an official FBI report

Here is the link to the letter

https://torres.house.gov/sites/torre...nforcement.pdf

and this is the part of the report they are referring to

https://www.scribd.com/document/4639...een&from_embed

This "thing" will continue with or without Biden.

Their primary reason in changing the narrative is to stoke white fear.

The purpose isn't to make Biden voters change their minds. That opportunity has long passed.
The purpose is to make the Trump base that have doubts about Trump commit to vote.


//

ok one thing is have "white supremacists" among the top peoples" another is claim which "all the police" is supporting white supremacists and everyone which don't agree with BLM is automatically a white supremacist and all the riot, looting, even murdering" everything is justified and its all a "conspiration from trump and republicans it's pretty much idiocity" and conspiration.

If it's about "racims" then i can easy tell you which also aming the BLM you can see a lot of "racism towards white peoples", a lot of bias, claims which as a famous person told on his podcast( they are a little less), even clain which his wife and daughter is a "little less".

What i'm seeying here being honest and i believe many peoples are seeying is not just "racims against black peoples" but a lot of hate and racism from all the sides which none trying to be "reasonable" and only hearing they own narratives and can't even try to look to the "whole picture" and see how crap they are being and all that during a pandemy where they are supposed to be protecting themselfs and the peoples they care but, no, they prefer not only risk themselfs, but risk also they "beloved ones and others peoples since to spread a disease like this one even "touching stuffs would be enough", you are making a already terrible situation even worst and while i do agree with "police must reduce they brutality" this is not just against "black peoples" and i do agree withe death penal and "kill to protect"others thing is ok, the problem is when you do what they did in george floyid case which is clear a problem and need to be fixed, but turn it in a flag were each time a "black person" is shoot is because "police is white supremacist" and don't matter if the person tried to kill the police or innocent peoples or any other crime just because he is a 'black" as if the cops don't had also killed "white peoples" too, it's when thigs goes wrong and when what was supposed to be a peace protest become a excuse to "loot" destroy" and even kill others peoples then srry man you lost me and a lot of peoples here and you gonna keep loosing peoples and by peoples i don't means the "celebrities" which are safe in they homes with a super security system to protect then" but the local peoples which are living in fear because of all that chaos being made, no matter how they "support the protest" everyone have they limits of how much crap they can take before they break and it what is happening now, what was supposed to be a "exemple" for the world against racism" is become a exemple of "racism and hatefull" and how things can go wrong if you let those peoples "free".


No matter how you trying to "spin" the narrative", hate, chaos and destruction only will create and bring more hate and chaos and destruction and the true means will be lost.

Want to have a support and see trump go down to the drain??? stop destroying stuffs, stop attacking peoples in the street for "no reason", stop looting shops, stop acting as the same 'racist" as the peoples you are claim to be racist, don't paint yourself bad as the peoples you are fighting against.

That is the "image" the world is starting to get from all that crap" in US, as a country full of hate racism for all sides and chaos.

I gonna say again the most "basic rule" you don't fight fire with more fire".

[Guardian Enzo]

Thanks, Q-Anon.

[Ougon]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Police are openly siding with white nationalist.

? Are you talking about KKK? Who are these "white nationalists" you're referring to? Please elaborate and provide some sort of evidence (Non-biased. Empirical. A hit piece article from right wing media outlets will not suffice)

Originally Posted by Key Board

There are people parading in Trump flags and trucks in Portland.

Which started recently, way after the unrest and domestic terrorism by bad elements and opportunists mixed with the minority non-lethal protestors. They razed parts of various cities down and beat innocent people to a bloody pulp. People started defending their homes and businesses after they had enough because, surprise, police was not helping or stopping these destructive goons.

Originally Posted by Key Board

The president is agitating his followers to shoot people.

Again, when, how and where did he do this? Need something empirical here, too.

Originally Posted by Key Board

How can there be a peaceful protest after this. Even if people want to be peaceful, what much can they do to maintain it of you have right wingers intentionally agitating things and looking for a fight.

Moot. Strawman. Refer ^

Originally Posted by Key Board

maybe it's a good time to remind people that the FBI warned us about this 14 years ago.
https://torres.house.gov/media-cente...filtration-law

Faulty inference.



On similar note, FBI officials have arrested antifa and rioters inc under domestic terrorism, and Antifa activities were actually designated as domestic terrorism violence under Obama administration.

Originally Posted by Key Board

And this is what's happening now.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...te-supremacist

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...tionist-terror

Hit pieces which manipulated wording to match their agenda. Few sources have been distorted to fit their writing. Some links are not verifiable. A whole lotta identity politics.


PS: I condemn white supremacy or any other race supremacy narrative. I also condemn identity politics and rioting.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Thanks, Q-Anon.

Now, now. Let's be friendly and not go to the extremes on either side.

[Key Board]

First, Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, Kyle Rittenhouse are white nationalists

Second, Obama has been a huge disappointment, and his failure to bring meaningful reform is one of the reasons why things have reached a boiling point.

Edit: Since you don't like American sources, I would also refer to this Reuters links . Surely Reuters is reputable enough for you. No?

https://www.reuters.com/search/news?blob=antifa
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN2370LX
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN23H06J


Third, thank you for openly condemning white supremacy.

I would like to refer you to this article regarding what I feel about the looting.
https://cominsitu.wordpress.com/2020...-looting-2014/

//

[Sheba]

The instant you link defense of looting is where I respond to you and your vigilante rethoric you have been constantly pushing for month with disgust. I have been calling you out about it weeks ago , man. Chill, the, fuck, out.