Nanoha Manga Discussion

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Seriously, people think that the ONLY reason that they were a threat (those that do) is because of the AMF.

I'm not saying they're a threat only because of the AMF, i say thet they are MORE of a threat thanks to the AMF.

Originally Posted by Nanya01

You know, ignoring the fact that Tre was as fast as Fate was (even in her Shin Sonic Form)...

Fighting Fate under a heavy AMF field and assited by Sette.

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Then there's Due, who can shapeshift...

Uno, who's the best hacker ever.

I think those two aren't meanted for direct combat, sure due is an excellent backstabber but she can't last two seconds in front combat against a Knight as Zest demonstrates(and Due isn't holding back, she even declare her intentions of killing Zest). Uno have ginormous potential as a mission control administrator and hacker making her a very real and effective threat in a sense far away from combat, which is, i think, the theme of the discussion right now.

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Sein who's skill has some scary potential. And again, it's under-used because the writers won't use such skills to their full potential.

Yep, Sein is in fact one of the Numbers with greater, unexplored potential, that's why the writers bring out Schach to perfectly counter her, it would be damn hard for any other character to get rid of her xDU(Shamal and Chrno probably but they are busy with their own battles and obligations).

I'm not saying the Numbers aren't threatening, it's just that they're threatening in another sense. One-on-one i felt they lack some flexibility in combat(they have single weapons without alt-modes for the most part and the majority of them have only one or two abilites to exploit in battle as oppossed to the variety of spells and techniques the main cast possesses) but as a group they have keen sinergy with each other and complement their abilites quite well(the twins make a great duo as also Tre and Sette does, the Nove-Cinque-Wendy combo is terryfing as they're able to anhilate Ginga, i bet if Cinque assisted her sisters during the final battle instead of Deed, Teana would be doomed), in fact they're lost mainly because Shamal, Zafira, Teana and Vice manage to break up their coordination giving a chance to the main powerhouses to effectively enter into action.

Probably with more experience and a powerset upgrade they could raise to effective solo fighters(Nove apparently is on the route, except she's discovered there's lots of people surpassing her in the world xDU).

Page claimed for the Numbers! ....and Nove xD(our lovable redhead coach *-*).

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Fighting Fate under a heavy AMF field and assited by Sette.

First time that Tre and Sette fought Fate, there was no AMF helping them out. (At least, I don't recall any Gadget Drones around them.)

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

First time that Tre and Sette fought Fate, there was no AMF helping them out. (At least, I don't recall any Gadget Drones around them.)

And i also recall Fate was under a power limiter at the time(i'm so concentrated on the AMF topic that i almos forgot that on top of that ...the main characters also wear freakin POWER LIMITERS XP). Believe me, i'm also annoyed by that to no end, that's what i hate with burning passion all of this Power Limiter/AMF/Eclipse/Anti-Magic thing, it exist only to supposedly justify battle results but it's only end up being an annoying way of blurring the conditions of the battle making impossible to determine who is clearly strongest and leading into discussions like this one XP. I miss the old days where the main character fight on straight battles -_-(battles where when you lose it's because the opponent is simply better and if you win is the result of your own prowess). I hope that in a future arc appears some kind of evil guy whose magic can't be restricted by Anti-Magic(Eclipse, AMF, or whatever name you want to put on it) thus pressing the heroes to finally going truly ALL OUT for once xDU.

[Nanya01]

So, let's just get some points we can agree on...

Some Numbers are sorely under-used (Uno, Due, Sein) with their potential.

The more combat-ready Numbers are more dangerous than people give them credit for.

AMFs did help the Numbers out (Cinque's coat can generate one on her own), but it wasn't a big reason why they were dangerous. Teamwork and ability help out as well.

As it's been said before...

"You don't need a hero on the field, you need a team that works well together."

Jail takes that concept and runs with it for the Numbers.

I still wonder if Isis was one he made.

[Akiyoshi]

Yep i can agree on the majority of your points, and that's why Nove's measure on the tournament level bugs me so much, but as i sayed before, this topic will most likely end up being ignored by the writers so i think is meaningless to continue discussing this.

Originally Posted by Nanya01

I still wonder if Isis was one he made.

Now that you mention it, i like Isis precisely for how honest and courageos she is, even when i still find her device a bit weird. She looks what Tohma can do now but still rushes heroically to save him and will take on one of the Huckebein(you know, these guys who are able to beat Signum) to reach him. she breaks her chains barehanded and have misterious butterfly-shapped spells. I'm very hyped for seeing Deville in action right now so i'm not putting much attention on Isis but i hope she an compensate for the old cast.

[Nanya01]

Huh, ViVid 18 is up on MangaFox.

[Akiyoshi]

Yup, i've readed it yesterday xD

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Huh, ViVid 18 is up on MangaFox.

I mentioned that yesterday. The post probably got buried in the rush of people arguing about power levels and stuff.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

I mentioned that yesterday. The post probably got buried in the rush of people arguing about power levels and stuff.

Yep, it did.

[Lord Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

I mentioned that yesterday. The post probably got buried in the rush of people arguing about power levels and stuff.

Well, keep the arguing, I want some blood. It's also pretty entertaining to read XD

[Akiyoshi]

Nah, Nanya01 and i apparently came to an agreement so there's not much to discuss about, also i've explayed nearly what i have inside so i'm satisfied for now xD.

So, to continue the topic, i've readed that a new chapter of the MOVIE 1st manga came out, now that the big battle is over i guess is the super cute chapter with the touching goodbye scene everyone is waiting. Someone is able put his hands on the scans already?

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

So, to continue the topic, i've readed that a new chapter of the MOVIE 1st manga came out, now that the big battle is over i guess is the super cute chapter with the touching goodbye scene everyone is waiting. Someone is able put his hands on the scans already?

Ninawolken posted them in Nanofate.us. And yes, it is the bridge scene.

[al103]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Subaru only got as far as she did against Cinque because she ass-pulled her Vibration Shatter (it was Super Effective against Cyborgs).

It's super effective against anybody. If you intent to kill that is. 3/4 - 9/10 of Subaru's offensive power coming from her cyborg strength and vibration shatter are usually sealed when not fighting to death but to capture. Nanoha have it easy with beams of variable lethality of hers. Same thing goes to most of other cyborgs, so Nove failing against Einhart do not mean anything - she didn't try to kill her, but to capture her and cyborgs are good at killing and maiming part, not safe captures.

[Lord Pertinax]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Nah, Nanya01 and i apparently came to an agreement so there's not much to discuss about, also i've explayed nearly what i have inside so i'm satisfied for now xD.

So, to continue the topic, i've readed that a new chapter of the MOVIE 1st manga came out, now that the big battle is over i guess is the super cute chapter with the touching goodbye scene everyone is waiting. Someone is able put his hands on the scans already?

Awwww...welll....

I'll search for the movie manga episode, also, I like to think that viviv 19 may be put up today.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by al103

It's super effective against anybody. If you intent to kill that is. 3/4 - 9/10 of Subaru's offensive power coming from her cyborg strength and vibration shatter are usually sealed when not fighting to death but to capture. Nanoha have it easy with beams of variable lethality of hers. Same thing goes to most of other cyborgs, so Nove failing against Einhart do not mean anything - she didn't try to kill her, but to capture her and cyborgs are good at killing and maiming part, not safe captures.

You have a point, but I think it's a bit more accurate to say: VS is super effective against anyone, but while it could easily kill a human, a cyborg can survive it, although heavily damaged with a risk of death. Cinque and Nove did survive, after all, just heavily damaged after a direct hit or two.

It's likely Nove was holding back against Einhart, but it couldn't have been too much. Nove did give the impression she was planning to stop Einhart right then and there. I would have liked a line from Nove that said something like, "I took it real easy on her, because I wanted to handle it carefully and see where she goes, so I lost on purpose."

Because at the moment, it really does look like Nove fought mostly serious, and yet still lost. Which would put Nove at least close to Einhart's level at that time, and thus not very strong when compared to the tournament entrants.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Because at the moment, it really does look like Nove fought mostly serious, and yet still lost. Which would put Nove at least close to Einhart's level at that time, and thus not very strong when compared to the tournament entrants.

This.

So far the impression is given that Nove fight seriusly against Einhart(complete with heroic resolve in response to Einhart's threatening about searching the other two kings: Vivio and Ixpellia). Still there are various interpretations, probably Nove was trying to understand why such a young fighter is fighting so desperately for things that ocurred in an ancient war(Einhart's adult form still looks very young when compared with actual adults like Fate or Hayate, like if Ein where in her late teens with that form), at least that's what Nove's attitude towardss Einhart all this time tells me. Also there's the fact that Nove plant a tracker DURING battle and deal enough damage to make Einhart collapse shortly after the battle which make a little blurry if she really "lost" against her. Running with al103 idea it's probably that Nove thinks it will be difficult for her to defeat Einhart without severly injuring her(just look at Ginga for God's sake o_O!) so she decides to fight "safe" and search for an opportunity to put the tracker, obviously bi doing so she risks and let her guard open for Einhart to counterattack(which is exatcly what happens with that chain bind and the subsequent emperor strike), i don't think she's completely able to measure the amount of damage necessary to knock her out, so probably Nove just hopes that Einhart will be in bad shape to fightback the capture team but Einhart collpases because Nove is just that strong.

But still, as Kaijo said, we lack descisive talk that reveal Nove's true impression of the combat, maybe after measuring Einhart's strenght she just think she irn't gonna make it against her and planned the tracker thing to allow her comrades to capture Einhart after Nove weakens her. that made me think ifNove can really count as a mentor to Einhart, she's of for the other girls because of her power and experience but Einhart is a self-taught, fairly powerfull Kaiser Arts fighter(strong enough to at least beat her).

Nove's defeat didn't affect me that much because she isn't a recognized Badass to begin with(she takes a lot of pain in StrikerS xDU) but also because of the good amount of developement that quickly follow said defeat, Nove goes from "hollow satellite character" to a complete character with her own personality and goals, i think she's a very likable character right now and things looks good for her on ViVid(we just need to ignore the "power level" thing xD).

EDIT: Oh! By the way, MOVIE 1st manga Ch. 1-10 is up on *you know where*, i'm gonna read it NOW! xD

[Blank-Mage]

Latest Movie 1st chapter! I just love how magical damage is handled.
"Tell the medical team to treat Fate first, her injuries are more severe."
"There are no wounds on Fate, thanks to Nanoha's good marksmanship!"
There is so much wrong with that statement.

Fate destroying the cot was an awesome touch, and damn if I don't love woobie Fate being sad.

[Akiyoshi]

Yup, a very short chapter but also very touching T-T

While The MOVIE 1st manga have it's details here and there, i think it's overall well executed, they turned the final battle up to eleven and also we can feel the touching moments like this one, i'm ready for the(probably) final chapter xD!

....also i like how suspiciously the chapters are numberes 1-1. 1-2 and so on, at first i don't understand why but now things are a bit more clear and pointing to smoething i will waiting madly ....MOVIE 2nd MANGA!!! xD

[Takamura Mamoru]

I've said it before but I'll say it again - I fucking love the movie 1st manga.

Everything just seems incredibly well written. That and the action is really good. Newest chapter was very emotional.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Nove's defeat didn't affect me that much because she isn't a recognized Badass to begin with(she takes a lot of pain in StrikerS xDU)

Pretty much. In her first appearance, she gets a surprise kick on Subaru, but then is promptly fooled by Teana's illusions. Later, Subaru damages her heavily. She gets an attack off on Teana in that 3-on-1 brawl, but is never really gets to show why she's a dangerous opponent as a combat cyborg (other than the off-screen attack on the Einherjar cannons).

Now, regarding the latest Movie 1st chapter, I suppose it was inevitable that things would mostly end up the same as every other incarnation. Though I'm a bit puzzled why they show them becoming friends, but still repeat over and over about how there is still a large gulf between them. Planning for an 11th hour twist?

I find it interesting that Fate floats this time, whereas she sank in the series.

I'm also amused by the whole magic damage thing, and about how Nanoha's attacks left no marks. In the real world, there is considerable controversy over torture tools that can cause a lot of pain, but leave no physical signs. Which puts Nanoha's magic (and magic in general) in a more sinister light: the ability to cause someone great pain, yet leave no evidence that it has done so, heh.