2007-06-02, 15:08 | Link #261 | ||
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Quote:
A's episode 8, when he's in the library surounded by floating books. Quote:
Funny how fans always read more in an anime then the creators intend. Of course, it wouldn't be this much fin if we didn't. |
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2007-06-02, 15:41 | Link #262 | ||
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
But I checked back with episode 7~ Let me show you why you didn't see the circle in Ep8: Spoiler for Surprise:
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Spoiler for this:
I can give you complete proof, but I can give you a way he could be doing it. Note the image above, his circle color is green as is the light of the orb. Since it's just a simple healing spell he could be doing a small circle in his hand. the orb's glow would make it invisible. We have seen this kind of thing in the series, Here's a reference of circle in the hand from season one: ..and it's even the right size Of course even if it's the posibility it's an ability and not a spell (as little to no math involved) it still does not disprove the circle theory.
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2007-06-02, 16:53 | Link #263 | |
~ I Do ~
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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Quote:
Mind if you could help us check if he transforms using a circle? The understanding to date was that he is confirmed to have no circle while transforming, but then again we might miss it. But I'm pretty sure he does not.
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2007-06-03, 01:21 | Link #268 | ||
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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If the math occurs in the linker-core then why is it when Shamal drained Nanoha's linker-core the SB did not dispel. Presuming the math occurs in the linker-core the spell should have been uncontrollable at that state. And also, why was it hard to do the spell with a perfectly intact linker-core but a broken raging heart, but it wasn't as effected as with a broken linker core. Some other thoughts presuming the theory holds some ground~ AMF Quote:
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2007-06-03, 06:58 | Link #269 | ||
~ I Do ~
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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Quote:
SB didn't dispell for it needed the LC to fire the spell, not charge it, so just a small spark was needed. But with RH unstable, and Nanoha's LC being screwed, it took quite a bit to finish it. But yeah, that scene, Nanoha had a bit of hero armor on to finish casting IMHO. Quote:
I don't see the link in your second point here, or get what you are trying to say. Care to elaborate? I think this has not been covered in the thread before.
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2007-06-03, 07:06 | Link #270 | |
sleepyhead
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
____________ I'll elaborate on the first part of you post later when I have some time... Takes some time to formulate.
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2007-06-03, 07:10 | Link #271 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Quote:
I don't see the point in a device creating devices if all you need is the data of a spell for it to work. You'd need a device capable of recording, analysing and storing that data. |
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2007-06-03, 07:20 | Link #273 |
~ I Do ~
Author
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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Erm... the Book is considered to be a Storage Device, with Swertkreuz the Armed Device and Rein the Unison Device, of which the latter 2 were created by Hayate later, so by right the original purpose of the Book was as a Storage Device storing stuff. But as we can see from Chrono's SDs even an SD can cast spells, though I do agree that it's probably optimized in a way that it could cast any spell, with the OS compatible with all known magic systems and maybe some other new ones too.
EDIT: It seems like different posters have interpreted the same question differently.
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2007-06-03, 07:20 | Link #274 |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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1) who says you cant cast spells that are unknown? all the books does is to store the right spell incantations so you can cast it...(its much more complex than that so im just dumbing it down) ~
2) hayate is able to find the right spells for the right situations...maybe if you think about it she can flick through the whole book and find the needed spells in a blink of an eye (kinda like yuuno's skill but here its inbuilt into the program...) ~ its like that time where she needed to freeze the whole area...she would be thinking "i need a freezing spell" and voila the book automatically opens at the right page ready for the spell to be cast
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2007-06-03, 07:40 | Link #275 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Nobody said you need that device to cast a spell, you just need a device (point-case, Nanoha casting cross-fire) a spell-book like device is a device, therefore it can cast spells. Any spell 'stored' in the spell-book is castable because, hey, the spell-book is a device.
Of course, it won't be as easy as Yami no Sho, but then again Yami no Sho is a Lost Logia. |
2007-06-03, 13:49 | Link #276 | ||||
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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Quote:
You said it's "manipulated and concentrated" to his/her linker core so basically his/her device does nothing to aid the mage with the spell other then a delivery system. (which doesn't effect how the spell performs or is created) Note Chrono in A's. Why did he need the device if the data is only in the linker core?! ~ IMO the original information is in the device, and the technique is copied by the person's liker-core eventually~ The attack can be mimicked to a certain percentage, but more the technique then the attack. As far as this goes it's only a universal version of the attack and not the full attack. Note how Nanoha's cross-fire looks different then Tea's. Tea's was explosive but it was also more of a cannon ball attack and the projectiles didn't leave trails. There are a few other counters to the info & manifestation in linker core theory. For one, the n00bies uniforms and weapons. How were they able to upgrade them if the linker core were the ones doing all the job?! - then there's Hayate's armor who is so Tome-of-Darkness-ish when she didn't see Rein at all before that. Then there's Raging Heart's behaviour in season 1, materialising the armor and weapon without Nanoha even thinking. There's also the cartridge system, why do you need to upgrade the weapon, couldn't they have just used the linker-cores to change the weapons?! Then there's the searching spell~ how born-genius do you have to be to come up with that kind of thing in an instant. T_T ---- Upsy.. just realised I derailed to the original topic we were debating ~ gomen ^__^ Back to the circle = temporary-device theory. Umm.. let's see~ hmm.. Ok I'm a little lost. Forgot were we were exactly ^^" What was the last counter?! _______________________________ Edit - a sec later.. Another explanation for Yuuno's healing spell. Was it ever mentioned it is a healing spell. In the zoomed out views there are white waves coming out of the center of the sphere who shares the color of his circles. Could it be he's just pumping out energy as it were~ (as in mana stuff)
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2007-06-03, 18:28 | Link #277 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I like to think of it as the devices being focusing and amplifying systems - the user is capable of doing (some) magic without them, but the magic becomes much more powerful and easier to use when the device is helping.
We know even young Nanoha could do a single Divine Shooter ball when she was training with RH, without RH even out. But when RH is helping her, she can move several of them with much greater dexterity. (Of course, that's the whole point in why she was training - and presumably the effort and exertion she put out when doing it solo meant that she could really rip when she had help!) Similarly, Nanoha pasted Tea with Tea's Crossfire attack without RH's help. It's not surprising that a (limited to AA) mage with that kind of experience can pull off something that a B-ranked mage needs a device and a cartridge to fire... (Of course, the question is, how much help can RH give without RH actually being "out"? We don't really know, but we don't see characters pulling off anything really powerful without their devices, so it's hard to tell.) Yuuno HAD RH, but obviously he couldn't use it well, despite a generally good competence in a wide variety of support magic. We can infer from this one of two things - either devices have varying needs for magic intake, such that a weak mage cannot use a strong device to its full extent... or devices have specific compatibilities, and for some reason, Yuuno and RH just didn't get along. I'm leaning towards the former - even young Nanoha had a lot more raw power than RH, but the manga described RH as a serious drain on Nanoha's magical power until she got used to it. (None of this addresses WHY Yuuno had RH, a device way above the power he could use, on his person at the time. Maybe it was a family heirloom or something? Something he just happened to dig up? Ooh, plot potential.) We don't have a lot of examples of specific device functionality, though, mostly because virtually all of the magic use we see is related to a one-caster, one-device standard. The addition of the cartridge system to Fate's and Nanoha's devices opened up a bunch of "this plus" type of attacks, and an additional form with additional attacks, but nothing TOO radically different from their former capabilities... more or less "what we used to do, but more of it!" Subaru's upgrade to the Mach Caliber was of a similar style - not really new abilities, at least that she's displayed, but what she had got a lot easier to use to a fuller extent. Our biggest counter-example is the Durandal, which has a capability not present in Chrono's previous devices; but since we don't really see Chrono in action with it, we have no idea if it can also do the sort of attacks that he's displayed previously. I'm leaving the Book of the Whatever out of this, because as a Lost Logia, it's clearly an outlier - we can expect it to have all sorts of capabilities that aren't present in other devices in general. How many of those features have survived to be enshrined into Rein Zwei, well, we don't really know yet... What we cannot clearly explain is what happens when a mage uses someone else's device, or even if it's possible; nobody's lost one yet and they DON'T trade off. Nor do we know how familiar-type magic differs from normal device-assisted magic, though if I can speculate, it's entirely possible that the familiar's construction takes the place of the device - that is to say, that Arf and the Lieze twins can use magic like they had a device because they were made that way. (Zafira's a special case, because he was made in a completely different way, yet it's entirely possible that he's the Velka equivalent.) And none of this can account for Yuuno's abilities in general, which are pretty weak in attack, but pretty wide otherwise. (Of course, the other characters have decent support magic too - Nanoha can heal and search, Fate can teleport between dimensions on her own power. But we see them in attack way more often, so that's how we think of them.) It's possible that Yuuno's spells rely much more on esoteric knowledge than pure horsepower, though - the fact that he's a scholar of magic means he can make his little AE86 outrun Nanoha's GTR on the Akina downhill, if I can mix an anime metaphor here. |
2007-06-06, 11:14 | Link #278 |
illusion control
Author
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Somewhat off-topic for the current conversation, but still kind of on-topic for the thread, I've been pondering a few questions about the Nanohaverse in general: about travel and the Infinite Library.
Basically, I'm not sure if there are any sources which explain these. Firstly, travel: how does it work? When a battleship in orbit around Earth goes back to Midchilda, how does it go about doing it, and how long does it take? How "scattered" are the various worlds? Are there any "space stations" in realspace? In fact, other than realspace, what other kinds of spaces are there? - Secondly, the Infinite Library: is it really Infinite, or is it just Very Big? What exactly is stored in the Infinite Library? What media are they in? Where is the Infinite Library? Where can a person go from the normal "gravity works here" place to the free-floating Library? Who can access the Infinite Library? This question is multi-faceted; I'm wondering both about military rank (for security clearance) and mage rank (for the floating around). What can access the Infinite Library? Does a researcher have to physically enter the Infinite Library, or can he just look it up on a computer remotely? I'm pretty much expecting to have to make up everything myself, but I'm wondering if there are any little tidbits in the extra materials that I missed. |
2007-06-06, 12:31 | Link #279 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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We do know that the total travel time between Earth and Mid isn't too large, because in A's more than one character makes the commute. I'd be surprised if it couldn't be done in a single teleport, given that the Lieze twins (a) were working in the Infinite Library and (b) also playing Masked Villain. No telling how long it takes a vessel to make the same trip, as we don't know anything about the physics or Mid naval technology.
We know that the TSAB has at least one big ol' space station, not in Earth space. Dunno if it's actually "in" Mid or what the actual extent of Mid is anyway, though you'd expect them to have facilities at their home, no? ;p Yuuno states that the Infinite Library basically contains everything - it's unclear whether that's "everything we've ever run across ever" or "everything PERIOD". We definitely know that the challenge involved in using the Library is to sift it for your desired information, which is apparently -really- hard. Yuuno happens to be good at this from practice. ;p He did have to be physically present for A's, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of remote access; however, given that Yuuno was doing the searching, as opposed to "Library staff", we have to presume that the data is not well-archived and well-sorted and that searching for something is going to involve a lot of on-the-fly stuff that isn't easily automated. It's not the sort of place where you can send an e-mail and they ship the data back to you tomorrow, or at least it wasn't during A's. It may be better now, of course. |
2007-06-06, 12:37 | Link #280 |
sleepyhead
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
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~ dkellis
There is only one kind of space. InterDimensional thingy isn't exactly "space". Travel is described as being similar to summoning ~ see Ep7 StrikerS It is not specifically mentioned that it's a problem of difference, hence scattering as you put it but of access, think as in rough seas and cosmic storms ~ this is speculation of course Yes, there are space stations in Dimensional-Space ~ see season 2 The infinite library is finite and contains books. Normal or magical in nature ~ unknown. It is described as a encyclopedia, more or less what is stored there is the history/knowledge of the universe ~ debatable on which universe is in context. The infinite library is located where ever their HQ is ~ unknown. It can be accessed by about anybody as long as the information requested is within their security clearance ~ presumably.
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