Fate/ Series Q&A

[GreyZone]

Again, earlier someone mentioned that Medea didn't exist. Where was THAT stated? Because it was certainly not in CM3 (it only mentions Heracles and

Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:

Medusa

, but not Medea). And no, her meeting with Heracles according to legends is not proof that SHE herself didn't exist, it just means that this particular legend simply didn't happen.

The "irony" the narrative mentions about her summoning FA was only refering to her being the anti-hero kind of heroic spirit.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

But as people have already pointed out concerning the answer, it really isn't supported by the original material, is it? What with Archer and others condemning Caster for actions that never actually happened. It would all stand better if they were all real people once, like Levani said.

That's like saying you can't criticize anime characters because they're not actually real.

[Levani]

The heroic spirits are real. Even if some never actually existed in the world, they existed in the minds of the people and that gave them form. They are born from legends, the events of the legends become their past. It's just the events didn't actually happen. They won't question that, why should they? There is no contradiction. It's different with Assassin, who is completely aware he just contributes to the false legend of Sasaki Kojirou and fills in Sasaki Kojirou's spot in the 5th Grail War.

Are you saying that they don't even know that their history is false? That would certainly explain them not being bothered by it.

But if they do know, I want Medea to defend herself and make people understand that this circumstances were made for her and that she willingly didn't do anything. This is a major-game changer.

That's like saying you can't criticize anime characters because they're not actually real.

Weak argument. We judge the anime characters in fictional context. Archer was judging Medea as if she willingly made choices to do crap.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Levani

Weak argument. We judge the anime characters in fictional context. Archer was judging Medea as if she willingly made choices to do crap.

Archer was judging Medea in the context of being in her presence. Regardless of whether or not her past was real, that past helped to shape the heroic spirit that she is now. In other words, she is the embodiment of a person with such a past.

It's the same way we criticize fictional characters. We do it in the context that these characters represent something regardless of whether or not their actions are real.

[Dengar]

While I don't like the idea of mythological heroes "never having existed", I would like to point out that just because they never existed, doesn't mean they're not real.

[GreyZone]

But if they really don't exist, then there is no catalyst to summon them...

-> plot hole

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

But if they really don't exist, then there is no catalyst to summon them...

-> plot hole

Legends and stories of old often incorporated real locations and artifacts in them. An object from the story which has a great affinity to the hero could be found in the real world for this reason.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

Legends and stories of old often incorporated real locations and artifacts in them. An object from the story which has a great affinity to the hero could be found in the real world for this reason.

But that means, like Kojirou, they are mixtures of multiple real people, like whoever used the relics in reality, in which case you cannot say they "didn't exist", but are instead "based on whoever resembles them the most" from all timelines, because, again, it's never stated that those heroic spirits are "born" right into the throne of heroes out of nothing.

[Nayrael]

Originally Posted by Levani

Are you saying that they don't even know that their history is false? That would certainly explain them not being bothered by it.

But if they do know, I want Medea to defend herself and make people understand that this circumstances were made for her and that she willingly didn't do anything. This is a major-game changer.

If if she is a kind of Servant who is fictional, she DID do it. That is, she is the type of person who would have committed such atrocities had she really existed. No matter if it is true history, fiction or the mix of both, the summoned Heroic Spirit has the personality befitting those pasts.

[GreyZone]

Again, where was MEDEA specifically said to NOT exist? CM3 does not refer to her.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

But that means, like Kojirou, they are mixtures of multiple real people, like whoever used the relics in reality, in which case you cannot say they "didn't exist", but are instead "based on whoever resembles them the most" from all timelines, because, again, it's never stated that those heroic spirits are "born" right into the throne of heroes out of nothing.

A lot of relics in real life turned out to be "forgeries". They become holy because people said so, embellishing all manners of stories to them. Actual connection to the history/legend/stories are not always necessary as long as people believe in it. Works much the same way as the heroes themselves I think.

[Tenzen12]

I think it would be best just follow saying, that in every myth there is grain of truth. Even if Medusa, Hercules or even Medea never existed, there are probably real people around whom these myths were build and they are part that makes HS real.

Anyway how can be quantified "monstrous strenght"?

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Anyway how can be quantified "monstrous strenght"?

Depends, who are you talking about in particular?

[Tenzen12]

I was speaking in general, but most obvious example would be fate!Rider

[JustThisOne]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I was speaking in general, but most obvious example would be fate!Rider

Its hard to say anything about the power of servants "in general." Each character has to be looked at a case by case basis.

But for (F/SN) Rider and characters around her level they have the striking power equivalent of a few tons of TNT explosives.

For character like (F/SN) Saber and Beserker, their striking strength has an equivalent of kilotons to megatons of TNT explosives.

[Fizix]

I'm curious about something at the start of UBW. Sakura was approached by Gil. I thought that would be going somewhere but we are right at the end now and it doesn't appear to have, or I've missed something.

What was that all about?

*I've not read the source and don't mind spoilers if they are minor.

[Rising Dragon]

It's a Common Route event that ties into Heaven's Feel. Gilgamesh basically knows that Sakura is a possible Grail Vessel due to having the shards of the previous Grail vessel (the one Saber destroyed) implanted into her for Zouken's machinations. He was telling her she should go kill herself (for being a fake Grail) 'cause maybe he'll get some entertainment out of it. When asked about it, Sakura just says he was speaking English and asking for directions.

Long story short, it's Sakura being a fake Grail and Gilgamesh being an asshole.

[Fizix]

Ah I see, thanks. Seems odd that it would be in UBW without it being clearer if its part of Heavens Feel.

[Rising Dragon]

Perhaps, but it's a Common Route event, taking place before the story diverges into the three separate routes.

[Fizix]

I see, I don't have an issue with it being there, it would make sense to my mind for the dialogue to be revealed though and would have added something as she has foreshadowing that goes nowhere and I feel that Sakura is at a loose end even though she has a fair bit of screen time in UBW.