[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Slate]

Originally Posted by Ssol

I doubt that. Given the fact she was hidden from view unlike the other corpses I will bet on her not being dead at that point.

There's a lot of liquid there for tears...and it is raining...

[Marion]

There was no mention of her crying in the VN. And furthermore, even if it was raining she should have been in the shed long enough for the tears to dry up.

If you want to make up theories off from the anime, when it doesn't even correlate to the VN, then good luck with that, but there was no mention of her eyes being teared up through any point of view in that shed. DEEN just likes being Dramatic.

Of course I'm not saying Shannon couldn't be alive. Just that you shouldn't base that idea off her tears.

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Marion

There was no mention of her crying in the VN. And furthermore, even if it was raining she should have been in the shed long enough for the tears to dry up.

If you want to make up theories off from the anime, when it doesn't even correlate to the VN, then good luck with that, but there was no mention of her eyes being teared up through any point of view in that shed. DEEN just likes being Dramatic

As it has been argued by many others before me, the fact that she is hidden from view is the primary reason why her death at that point is suspicious. The anime pic just adds a little fuel to that fire. Having read all 4 episodes of the VN I wouldn't make up theories based on the anime alone.

[Rei-Tenshi]

For the "Shannon = alive in the shed" theory:

Isn't it extremely unrealistic for the survivors to not even check who the corpses really were? For "Shannon = alive" to be possible, that would mean that every single person inside the shed were in on the crime (That would mean Eva and Natsuhi working together as well).

If somebody innocent were to insist on checking the status/identities of the bodies, that plan would fall apart right there.

Imagine that it was from an innocent person's POV (let's say Battler).
"OMG Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Krauss, Gohda, and 1 more person are dead!!!
UWOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo.... wait, who's that 1 other person?"

[Ithekro]

Someone suggested that the "tears" on Shannon's face could be drops of rain water off of one of the people that found her. Just dramatic placement for effect. However her being alive (or just died) would make the tears being more meaningful, though again, that is "probably nothing".

As for her being alive? Eva and Natsuhi don't seem to enter the shed, only the two servants, the doctor, and Eva's husband (why can't I remember his name?). He is the closest to her so if she is alive, he should know, unless the other five being dead and the makeup or whatever makes him suppose she's dead too. However that would mean that Shannon is a very good actor.

You may find out in August if it means anything.

[Slate]

Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi

For the "Shannon = alive in the shed" theory:

Isn't it extremely unrealistic for the survivors to not even check who the corpses really were? For "Shannon = alive" to be possible, that would mean that every single person inside the shed were in on the crime (That would mean Eva and Natsuhi working together as well).

If somebody innocent were to insist on checking the status/identities of the bodies, that plan would fall apart right there.

Imagine that it was from an innocent person's POV (let's say Battler).
"OMG Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Krauss, Gohda, and 1 more person are dead!!!
UWOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo.... wait, who's that 1 other person?"

Just because multiple people went in doesn't mean each one carefully examined every body. Only one person is needed to identify a body.

[Shamisen]

Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs

Spoiler:

Why the heck is Natsuhi and Krauss on the servants side?! I know that Eva stated that Natsuhi is just "a maid servant" but that doesn't mean she is one. And why is Krauss also on the servants side? That doesn't even make any sence. Oh, and another thing I noticed is that on the siblings side everyone look very colorful and happy, but on the servants side everyone look very gray and upset. A servant uproar?

Spoiler for Ep 5 Opening:

It would seem that those are all the people that technically live on Rokkenjima instead of just visiting for the conference. I.E. Krauss, Natsuhi, plus the servants and Nanjo who go there all the time. Yet Kinzo seems to be missing ... Perhaps because he's already dead?

Edit: Damn. Looks like someone beat me to it. Guess that's my fault for skipping ahead a few pages.

Also, about the whole No human can kill Kanon and someone else using Kanon's name. Kanon is not his actual name, remember, it could be more of a title that any servant can inherit. Like Shannon's real name being Sayo.

[Rei-Tenshi]

Originally Posted by Slate

Just because multiple people went in doesn't mean each one carefully examined every body. Only one person is needed to identify a body.

But that means the plan relied too much on the innocent guys not checking on the bodies themselves, which is unrealistic to me. If somebody really INSISTED on checking the bodies, their plan would be exposed right away.

[Slate]

Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi

But that means the plan relied too much on the innocent guys not checking on the bodies themselves, which is unrealistic to me. If somebody really INSISTED on checking the bodies, their plan would be exposed right away.

...I just realized that two of the people who checked the bodies were the next ones to be killed...interesting...

[blaze0041]

Originally Posted by Shamisen

Spoiler for Ep 5 Opening:

It would seem that those are all the people that technically live on Rokkenjima instead of just visiting for the conference. I.E. Krauss, Natsuhi, plus the servants and Nanjo who go there all the time. Yet Kinzo seems to be missing ... Perhaps because he's already dead?

Spoiler for Red text: Regarding Kinzo...:

Spoiler for Careful, highly spoilerific...!:

Kinzo's life or death status is the same at the start of each of the 4 games. The setup was not different for the fourth game alone...!
Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games! However, this means that you can take one person out!!

That should answer your question...

[Lady_Bernkastel]

Originally Posted by Golden Witch Drugs

I decided to write some of my thoughts on the opening... (Sorry if I repost on a screenshot or a text)

Spoiler for EP5 Opening:

So... My overall expression of the screenshots from the game and the opening is that this episode is most certainly going to explain EP1. Natsuhi and Kinzo have a big part in this game, the new girl is probably Maria's rose, Battler is going to explore Beato's mind, Battler is entering the kakera world, Lambda and Bern is apparently having a fight... And so on. Now, onto the screenshots.


I noticed a couple of things on this picture that were quite interesting...
1 As it seems, you can see a bit of Maria's skirt and her legs closest to the rose, and behind her someone is standing... I paused and saw that the girl standing behind Maria has a red skirt. And in none of the earlier episodes does there exist a girl with a short, red skirt. This could be the "New Girl A" with a alternative dress, but it could also be, as Lady_Bernkastel said, that the "New Girl A" is only a witness to this scene.
2 If you look closley at this, it kinda looks like a Ryukushi-style hand, doesn't it? I don't know if it's Maria's hand or the other girls, but apparently someone is trying to grab the rose. As far as this goes, I have a theory. The girl standing behind Maria might have stole the rose, because she knew that Maria would search for her rose a long time after it. That way the girl would've been able to dress up as Beatrice and then go give Maria the letter and the umbrella while she was searching. And... If the "New Girl A" were to be Maria's rose, it would explain why she is on the picture. Then if the "New Girl A" would've been captured by the girl she would've known who the culprit is (If the one that stole Maria's rose were to be the culprit) when she turned into a human/witch/piece/furniture/whatever. And that would in its turn explain the screenshot where she says "You are the culprit."


Why the heck is Natsuhi and Krauss on the servants side?! I know that Eva stated that Natsuhi is just "a maid servant" but that doesn't mean she is one. And why is Krauss also on the servants side? That doesn't even make any sence. Oh, and another thing I noticed is that on the siblings side everyone look very colorful and happy, but on the servants side everyone look very gray and upset. A servant uproar?


To me, the new portrait is facinating in many ways. For example, it is different from all the other portraits due to it's river of blood and dead hand in the right corner. And the portraits that shows before this one in the opening, are all portraits of the golden witch/previous golden witch. So the "New Girl A" is probably a new Beatrice. That would explain the title of the game, but still not. Since if the "New Girl A" would be the new golden witch she wouldn't really "end" the golden witch. But, if she were to claim a new title for herself, that would definitly make the golden witch "end".


Is it just me or does this look like the right side of Natsuhi? It would definitly be possible due to her big importance in EP1. And in one of the game screenshots Ronove adresses her as "Natsuhi-sama" so I hope we are getting a Natsuhi-Beatrice for this episode :'3


Is Eva-Beatrice going to be in this game as well? In that case, yaaay~


I really don't get this picture... It looks like George, Battler and Hideyoshi so my theory about this is that they are in the rose shed and this is when Hideyoshi finds Shannon's corpse and confirms that she is indeed wearing a ring.


Before Battler's face enters the kakera screen Bern is standing in the top of the screen. Maybe Bern shows him the kakera world and all the previous games so he can get some clues how to defeat Beato? (And somehow I get the feeling that she is going to show him the Higurashi world to prove that she was able to win after a hundred years of playing against Lambdadelta, and that he also can beat Beato)


I don't really know who the closest person on thsi picture is... But the person that is shaping in the background actually looks alot, and I mean ALOT, like Rika's sprite in Higurashi... So I really think that the Higurashi world is going to be mentioned in this episode. It could also be Bern, but I just don't think it really looks like her... As far as the front person goes I actually belive this is Rena... If this were to be a part from the Higurashi world... I really think so... Really... I don't care if it sounds somehow stupid -.- (And also, on this picture the background character hasn't been completely shaped up yet)


I bet that Lambda and Bern is going to have a fight, and Battler is somehow going to interfere. Or something like that... Honestly... About this picture... I don't have clue...


On this picture... I actually see 4 characters... I said 4... Or... I don't see 4... But I'll explain. The person in the background is definitly Virgilia. As far as the person standing next to long-hair Beato I got two different options... One is, Battler... One is, young Kinzo... I mean, you never know! Since Battler is exploring Beato's mind this could be a memory from her past when she met Kinzo. And since Virgilia were her teacher at that time, that would explain why she is there. But it could also be Battler.

And, well... That's all I got... Hope I didn't type to much ^^, Took me about 16 replays of dreamenddischarger to type all this...

Regarding the first pic...the red thing you marked as 1, is the ribbon on Maria's bag. The other thing marked as 2, isn't a hand...it's Maria's bag.
Just try to pause the scene a sec before, and you'll see for yourself.

Spoiler for saving space:

what you thought might be a typical-Ryukishi-style-hand as it really seems, is actually that corner of Maria-chan's bag (the arrow points at it).

[Hareoic]

Originally Posted by Ssol

As it has been argued by many others before me, the fact that she is hidden from view is the primary reason why her death at that point is suspicious. The anime pic just adds a little fuel to that fire. Having read all 4 episodes of the VN I wouldn't make up theories based on the anime alone.

Which is why you can also check the manga and see that they added tears there as well

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi

For the "Shannon = alive in the shed" theory:

Isn't it extremely unrealistic for the survivors to not even check who the corpses really were? For "Shannon = alive" to be possible, that would mean that every single person inside the shed were in on the crime (That would mean Eva and Natsuhi working together as well).

If somebody innocent were to insist on checking the status/identities of the bodies, that plan would fall apart right there.

Imagine that it was from an innocent person's POV (let's say Battler).
"OMG Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Krauss, Gohda, and 1 more person are dead!!!
UWOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooo.... wait, who's that 1 other person?"

Not necessarily, Shannon's body was "conveniently" further inside the shed and not everyone actually went inside. In the anime version it was almost completely hidden.

Hideyoshi supposedly is the one who has seen the body more closely, most probably Nanjo as well did it. Kanon was near Hideyoshi, we don't know how closely he looked at his sister body, but he certainly saw it.

As for the rest I doubt they could check if she was alive. Considering that George asks if there are only 5 bodies, it is safe to assume he couldn't see her at all. I don't think he isn't able to count to six. And if he saw the body even from a distance how could he not recognize a maid uniform?


Anyway if Hideyoshi was concealing something (it wasn't shannon, or she was alive oe who know what else), then that could be a good reason for him to tell George to not look.

[Rei-Tenshi]

Battler knew there were atleast 6 for sure, as he commented on the fact that "there are more corpses than I could count on my hand".

[Jan-Poo]

Well after reading more carefully it appears that in the novel Battler made a few steps inside. So he saw it, but not clearly enough to recognize it, He names instantly Rudolf Krauss Rosa and Kyrie, after a while he names Gohda, but not Shannon, ergo he can't see her well enough. Andt is said that george was standing outside and the sixth body was on a blind spot for him.

[Kitsu]

Oh and Kanon looked at Shannon. It was said that "he just stared blankly at her" or something similar

[Jan-Poo]

yes he was inside near Hideyoshi.

Kanon, Hideyoshi and Nanjo (most probably) all have seen Shannon closely. Battler has seen it, but not closely, George didn't see it at all.

The rest is unclear, but at best they have seen what Battler has seen.

[chronotrig]

Well, look at the people who supposedly witnessed Shannon's corpse close up:
Kanon, her 'brother', who probably wouldn't betray her no matter what.
Hideyoshi, who looked seriously disturbed in both VN and anime, so probably didn't give the corpses anything more than a glance.
Nanjo...well, if he was able to say Kinzo was alive when he was dead, maybe it went the other way around for Shannon...for whatever reason.

And actually, there's some even bigger support for at least one person being alive.
Turn the chessboard over. Why would someone dedicated to making closed rooms kill 6 people at once...but be left with a closed room that's easily broken?

The culprit killed many people at once in order to hide something about one specific corpse.
When people see a crowd of similar things, we automatically search for patterns. This is one of the oldest tricks in the mystery genre.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Well, look at the people who supposedly witnessed Shannon's corpse close up:
Kanon, her 'brother', who probably wouldn't betray her no matter what.
Hideyoshi, who looked seriously disturbed in both VN and anime, so probably didn't give the corpses anything more than a glance.
Nanjo...well, if he was able to say Kinzo was alive when he was dead, maybe it went the other way around for Shannon...for whatever reason.

And actually, there's some even bigger support for at least one person being alive.
Turn the chessboard over. Why would someone dedicated to making closed rooms kill 6 people at once...but be left with a closed room that's easily broken?

The culprit killed many people at once in order to hide something about one specific corpse.
When people see a crowd of similar things, we automatically search for patterns. This is one of the oldest tricks in the mystery genre.

The only strange thing is that Kanon was upset Shannon was chosen as a sacrifice in kitchen scene. Battler witnessed that, so it should be real.
But I thought something. The servants seem to know a lot about the "roulette", Beatrice and so on, but what if it is something completely different than what it appears? What if those words are a sort of "code" for something we don't know about? "Roulette", "sacrifices" and the like could have a different meaning.

[Alaya]

Originally Posted by Nih

I can't come up with anything to counter your theory, Chrono. And I think I examined all the possibilities. Not really sure what to say here except I love Umineko so much that I was even considering having the orange truth go against the red if the ending was too depressing.

Spoiler for personal thanks and thoughts and off topic:

On that note, let me ask one last time: can I continue my parody series? I know this is most likely offensive to some and once again, I profoundly apologize. I'm actually halfway through making the season finally, but the series is made for the people to watch. So if there is no interest then there's no need to even continue. Heh, I'm a selfish and paranoid person sometimes... most of the time I'm just stupid. It's really hard to express my feelings to you guys right now, but I really want your advice on a personal level. I hold Umineko and the people posting here in high respect (I learned a lot on these forums and am still learning btw) and wish to provide an alternative ending to Umineko should the need ever arise, or just some good laughter. I guess the answer could be a ban if you don't trust me on this, then everything will come to a halt. If not, I hope to continue posting here and have fun with everyone (under the forum's rules of course, which I still didn't read entirely, but am about to). Also I plan on taking Episode 4's themes (tea parties included) into consideration for the future of the parodies.

P.S. Started reading rules, I'm going to read the rest little by little, but I think I have a good basic grasp. And I have nothing else to add really.

Orange truth FTW.

About what you ask, it is best to talk with the Mods beforehand before you start posting like that. Many people found it was not so good when it just suddenly appeared without warning when they try to discuss something. I think Klash would be ok to discuss over parody and how to post them in a better way.