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Miraluka · 2012-03-25, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

The worf effect for this volume was for Ollerus and Fiamma, especially since the author deliberaltely let Fiamma gain his Holy Right back.

No, he still had it after he got his right arm sliced off by Aleister, because its the power that is still attached to his very core, just like IB isn't IB if isn't attached to Touma's right arm.

The Worf Effect goes for Invislbe Thing vs Othinus, not Touma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breidaluk

Now that I think about it, Touma still has his own power that he used to crush "that thing" and make a newright arm . We can conclude that his power is not Imagine Breaker. Imagine Breaker is a power that stays in his right hand, so his own power is something entirely distint. If we see back in vol 22 :

A different power appeared above that great power that had gathered around Kamijou’s shoulder. That other power seemed to open up a large mouth and swallowed up the first power. As if this giant mouth was chewing, the air around the shoulder shook looked like sugar water.

That great power was smashed in an instant.

Probably this is the power that Aleister was preventing everyone to know, to the point of going to Russia to dispose of Fiamma, the only one who saw that. And if Touma could do that his powers can probably be on a higher level than Othinus. That's probably the reason why Imagine Breaker still stick with him like glue.

Yes, he has 3 powers and 1 skill (Precognition)

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

So Fiamma was at planet busting level when fighting Othinus?

No, still nerfed.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-03-25, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

So Fiamma was at planet busting level when fighting Othinus?

Actually at full power, the Holy Right was at Star busting level

desrtsku · 2012-03-25, 23:34

The result would have still been the same though

tsunade666 · 2012-03-25, 23:55

^ it would be different if Fiamma brings a lucky charm

Having Touma around is bad news when fighting Othinus

Kirito · 2012-03-26, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Yes, he has 3 powers and 1 skill (Precognition) .

I know for Imagine Breaker there's:

1. Negation
2. Disruption

What's the third one minus the precognition?

Sumeragi · 2012-03-26, 00:21

No, we're talking about Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power.

Kirito · 2012-03-26, 00:35

I see, I still don't get it. Does it have to do with the "Invisible Thing" associated with Imagine Breaker?

hao-sama · 2012-03-26, 00:48

i believe it goes like this:

Imagine Breaker
The Great Power - the invisible thing that came out of his arm when it got cut
The Other Power - the power that crushed the invisible thing and prevented it from going any further

and then there's his precognition.

Kirito · 2012-03-26, 00:52

I see, got it!

If Touma were to die would Imagine Breaker still be active or will another great power like the "Invisible Thing" will spawn like when his hand gets cut off.

tsunade666 · 2012-03-26, 00:57

I think others are confusing precognition of Touma. It's his own strength just like his OWN power that CRUSH the INVISIBLE THING. Touma's been fight lots of fight that which help him to discern the enemies move. From Accel's pov this precognition is not yet perfect because it can only give hints or predictions of the attack pattern but still he needs a body. Strong body to follow through it. Not just mind working on discerning the attack but also the body to react to the attack. It can't be called an esper ability. It's more like those minds eye of the martial arts master or other fighters which had fought lots of battles that they become accustomed to it. They can read the opponents movements. IT'S NOT AN ESPER ABILITY. Just Touma's ABILITY he gain through fighting.

The 3 powers is as I explain.
Imagine breaker - which clearly shows that it has previews owner or other owner but one can only manifest at a time.
The invisible thing - the thing inside Touma.
Touma himself - Chaoz said it's willpower. Strong willpower that it can suppress the absolute power which is boiling inside of him when the imagine breaker was cut off. Though it can also be said Touma's own power.

Sumeragi · 2012-03-26, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I think others are confusing precognition of Touma. It's his own strength just like his OWN power that CRUSH the INVISIBLE THING

We're still not sure about that, so let's not jump to conclusions. Until proven otherwise, we should assume that the Other Power is separate from Touma's own precognition or willpower.

hao-sama · 2012-03-26, 01:17

was it ever explicitly stated that he crushed the invisible thing with willpower? it's the impression i got from reading, but i'm not sure.

as for precognition... well pre-dragon's breath touma must be extremely pro. it's his instincts that saved the memory-less touma countless of times already.

tsunade666 · 2012-03-26, 01:34

I'm not sure on willpower too. I just thought it's own Touma's potential. But others like chaoz said willpower. Which sure sounds fine with shounen hero's.

shmaster · 2012-03-26, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by faiz blaster

But, if I got it right, during the fight Fianma got back the "world-saving" powers that he attained in the Star of Bethlehem due Kamijou's right hand being cut off by Othinus.

No, Ollerus is just trolling Othinus for cutting off Touma's hand, which can let Fiamma unleash his power if Fiamma absorbs it.

But from the out come, apparently Fiamma didn't, the hand was attached back to Touma by Ollerus.

The current Fiamma, at best, is at the level when he was fighting the Pope.

BTW, even he did absorbs Touma's hand, he still couldn't attain the same power he had in vol. 22, as he lacks the Star of Bethlehem.

Kirito · 2012-03-26, 01:42

So he'll never reach the "OP" status he wished for, sucks to be him considering that the Star of Bethlehem got destroyed.

Phibrizzo · 2012-03-26, 01:50

The star of bethlehem is no longer needed, it serve its purpose at that point then again I do think Fiamma would get a power up still...

Now if we could kick touma of this novel and let anyone else be the main character.

tsunade666 · 2012-03-26, 01:51

^ let the king of luck be the main character

shmaster · 2012-03-26, 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phibrizzo

The star of bethlehem is no longer needed, it serve its purpose at that point then again I do think Fiamma would get a power up still...

Now if we could kick touma of this novel and let anyone else be the main character.

Star of Bethlehem is the Temple that refines the "power of right hand". Fiamma has to re-refine his Holy Right again if he wants his power back.

leukrota · 2012-03-26, 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

But from the out come, apparently Fiamma didn't, the hand was attached back to Touma by Ollerus.

Actually it attached, or rather grew again all by itself. Touma is apparently the IB's preferred host, at least for now. All Ollerus did was watch over him.

EDIT: Reviewing the passage, it re-attached this time... it still did it on it's own.

Phibrizzo · 2012-03-26, 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Star of Bethlehem is the Temple that refines the "power of right hand". Fiamma has to re-refine his Holy Right again if he wants his power back.

Yes but the ritual was done, the point here was the rejection of Imagen breaker, the altar can be changed (and for what Aliester state it must be changed).

2012-03-25, 23:34	Link #17843
desrtsku Nympholept Join Date: May 2011 Location: Wonderland. Age: 31	The result would have still been the same though __________________

2012-03-25, 23:55	Link #17844
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	^ it would be different if Fiamma brings a lucky charm Having Touma around is bad news when fighting Othinus __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-03-26, 00:35	Link #17847
Kirito Enjoying Snack Time! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Where It's Legal to Marry Clara and Alice Age: 35	I see, I still don't get it. Does it have to do with the "Invisible Thing" associated with Imagine Breaker? __________________

2012-03-26, 00:48	Link #17848
hao-sama Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: philippines	i believe it goes like this: Imagine Breaker The Great Power - the invisible thing that came out of his arm when it got cut The Other Power - the power that crushed the invisible thing and prevented it from going any further and then there's his precognition. __________________ MyAnimeList + DeviantArt + AnimePaper

2012-03-26, 00:52	Link #17849
Kirito Enjoying Snack Time! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Where It's Legal to Marry Clara and Alice Age: 35	I see, got it! If Touma were to die would Imagine Breaker still be active or will another great power like the "Invisible Thing" will spawn like when his hand gets cut off. __________________

2012-03-26, 00:21	Link #17846
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	No, we're talking about Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power.

2012-03-26, 00:57	Link #17850
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	I think others are confusing precognition of Touma. It's his own strength just like his OWN power that CRUSH the INVISIBLE THING. Touma's been fight lots of fight that which help him to discern the enemies move. From Accel's pov this precognition is not yet perfect because it can only give hints or predictions of the attack pattern but still he needs a body. Strong body to follow through it. Not just mind working on discerning the attack but also the body to react to the attack. It can't be called an esper ability. It's more like those minds eye of the martial arts master or other fighters which had fought lots of battles that they become accustomed to it. They can read the opponents movements. IT'S NOT AN ESPER ABILITY. Just Touma's ABILITY he gain through fighting. The 3 powers is as I explain. Imagine breaker - which clearly shows that it has previews owner or other owner but one can only manifest at a time. The invisible thing - the thing inside Touma. Touma himself - Chaoz said it's willpower. Strong willpower that it can suppress the absolute power which is boiling inside of him when the imagine breaker was cut off. Though it can also be said Touma's own power. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-03-26, 01:17	Link #17852
hao-sama Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: philippines	was it ever explicitly stated that he crushed the invisible thing with willpower? it's the impression i got from reading, but i'm not sure. as for precognition... well pre-dragon's breath touma must be extremely pro. it's his instincts that saved the memory-less touma countless of times already. __________________ MyAnimeList + DeviantArt + AnimePaper

2012-03-26, 01:34	Link #17853
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	I'm not sure on willpower too. I just thought it's own Touma's potential. But others like chaoz said willpower. Which sure sounds fine with shounen hero's. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-03-26, 01:42	Link #17855
Kirito Enjoying Snack Time! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Where It's Legal to Marry Clara and Alice Age: 35	So he'll never reach the "OP" status he wished for, sucks to be him considering that the Star of Bethlehem got destroyed. __________________

2012-03-26, 01:50	Link #17856
Phibrizzo Honos628 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Mexico	The star of bethlehem is no longer needed, it serve its purpose at that point then again I do think Fiamma would get a power up still... Now if we could kick touma of this novel and let anyone else be the main character.

2012-03-26, 01:51	Link #17857
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	^ let the king of luck be the main character __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero