[Manga] Chapter 516 Discussion

[solidguy]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

This is what baffles me the most is that people can actually still enjoy Kishi's writing overall. I'll admit he has a good chapter every now and then, but the entirety of part II has been absolutely dreadful. What on earth do you people see in his writing?

this has been said many times over, but i'll say it again. This manga is aimed at 12-15 yr old boys. If the manga doesnt satisfy your expectations then perhaps you need to find a manga that does and quit trolling us that appreciate this manga. Your opinion is just that, it is not an absolute. If nobodyman9 thinks naruto sucks, then maybe he should go and write something as popular as kishi.

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by solidguy

this has been said many times over, but i'll say it again. This manga is aimed at 12-15 yr old boys. If the manga doesnt satisfy your expectations then perhaps you need to find a manga that does and quit trolling us that appreciate this manga. Your opinion is just that, it is not an absolute. If nobodyman9 thinks naruto sucks, then maybe he should go and write something as popular as kishi.

Shush. You can't bring logic in an animu thread.

[Haak]

Errr....Animu?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by solidguy

this has been said many times over, but i'll say it again. This manga is aimed at 12-15 yr old boys. If the manga doesnt satisfy your expectations then perhaps you need to find a manga that does and quit trolling us that appreciate this manga. Your opinion is just that, it is not an absolute. If nobodyman9 thinks naruto sucks, then maybe he should go and write something as popular as kishi.

QFT



The message you have entered is blah, blah, blah...

[Sharfan]

Probably a typo. Or, a very strange sense of humor. . .

Well, I've already said what I wanted to say, so I think I'll stay out of the argument, if it persists, for now on, at least until I find myself in need of getting into it.

But, just to answer Nobodyman6's question, I like the manga simply for what it is. A struggle between good and evil that I think was written fairly well. Yes, Kishi has made many mistakes, too many for me to put in one post in fact, but in my opinion I think the good that he's done with Naruto to far outweigh the bad. He has pulled some gold, and you know it, otherewise you wouldn't still be here arguing.

As for the rest, Frenchie summed up most of what I would say, except for the fact that I personally thought Sakura was really out of character when she knocked out those two. . . or maybe she was exactly in-character. It really doesn't matter, because I didn't like that whole two or three chapters at all.

[Deathscyther]

Nice chapter, things are becoming interesting. I wonder if we'll get some good fights (an air battle with Kankurou and Sai vs Sasori and Deidara would be great for example)

Also I wonder what Kabuto has planned for Anko. I think he'll give her some information (like a weak point of the Zetsu's or Madara). I don't think she'll die at this point.

And it's good to see Naruto is getting training with his Kyuubi mode, while the others will get some time to shine.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

And this is the point where I officially stop caring.

Arrivederci.

Your trolling and whining is very irritating. It's time to grow up.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Deathscyther

Also I wonder what Kabuto has planned for Anko. I think he'll give her some information (like a weak point of the Zetsu's or Madara). I don't think she'll die at this point.

Anko is a woman under Kishi's dictatorship
Anko hates Orichimaru, Kabuto hates everyone who hates Orochimaru or who is a menace to him... so... If Anko is skilled enough, the best thing she can do now is to run.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

What is so compelling about Naruto's homo-erotic obsession with Sasuke? What was so compelling about Team Gai fighting clones of themselves? What is so compelling about Sai? What was so compelling about the anticlimactic death of Orochimaru? What was so compelling about Kishi's hastily thrown together, last mintue final duel between Guy and Kisame? What was so compelling about Sakura underhandedly knocking out Lee and Kiba? What in god's green earth was so compelling about Sasuke vs. Itachi? What is so compelling about armadillo penis?

I found the anticlimactic death of Orochimaru something to appreciate. A villian like him who's been hyped up as ridiculously strong getting taken down so easily, and his goon turning out to be a lot more powerful and creepier than him. Honestly didn't see it coming.

And I thought Sasuke's fight with Itachi was pretty cool and dramatic. Lots of emotion involved.

Other than those two i agree with the others. Naruto does have it's flaws.

What is so compelling about Naruto so desperately wanting to help Gaara because of the kinship Naruto feels towards Gaara for having the same pain but worse? What is so compelling about Sakura taking a stand for once and showing just how far she's come by helping Chiyo take down Sasori? What is so compelling about Naruto going 4-tails on Orochimaru's ass and Orochimaru holding his own against him? What is so compelling about Shikamaru getting almost an entire arc on his own and getting significantly more character depth? What is so compelling about Jiriaya actually getting killed and Naruto having to come to terms with it, giving him further character depth? What is so compelling about Sasuke having his ass handed to him by Killer Bee? What is so compelling about an Akatsuki utterly annihalating Konoha and Naruto having an epic fight with Pain? What is so compelling about the fact that Naruto, despite being the main character is clearly not the sole person driving the story, and has infact been on the back seat for the entirety of Part 2 except for the Invasion of Pain arc? What is so compelling about how these last few chapters have been building up to an epic finale, how all the pieces are finally falling into place and how the wheel are all turning and there's no way to stop?

Surely you people can't be blind to the fact that he's completely ignored the Konoha rookies? (and no, giving them occasional screentime for some meaningless purpose does not mean he gives a flying fudge about them). You all ask me why I think the secondary characters won't get to do anything meaningful during this arc, but what I want to know is why any of you think, given the amount of attention Kishi's given them over the last few years, they will do anything meaningful.

Butthurt much? What is so compelling about the rookies? Frankly i don't give two shits about the other rookies. I wish they all died during the Invasion of Pain arc. And I don't see what's so compelling about part 1 either. I thought it was shit. But what do i know? I have a different opinion to you.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Haak

I found the anticlimactic death of Orochimaru something to appreciate. A villian like him who's been hyped up as ridiculously strong getting taken down so easily, and his goon turning out to be a lot more powerful and creepier than him. Honestly didn't see it coming.

I remember when i read the fellowship of the ring, i couldn't believe Gandalf's death... and i think you guess what i'm trying to talk it about.

I have this feeling that in someway, Orochi and Jiraiya could return... it's only up to Kishi.

[Haak]

It's still worth appreciating. Just because it can turn out to be flawed doesn't mean it will.

[Orgasm]

Originally Posted by ibexwalya

Gaara's speech seems the more ridiculous, it was like an over used cliches and more of a rally cry than a war speech. Very disappointed.

I totally agree. Took away from whatever "cool" factor he had left, by his screaming. Also, yeah, it wasn't really up to be considered a "war speech"...

Maybe the anime will have some additional peppers, to make this scene sound more effective than the manga's version.

[kk2extreme]

If you are going to rally your army, take notes from WWII

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by solidguy

this has been said many times over, but i'll say it again. This manga is aimed at 12-15 yr old boys. If the manga doesnt satisfy your expectations then perhaps you need to find a manga that does and quit trolling us that appreciate this manga.

I know I said I didn't care anymore, but I can't ignore this, because it's just stupid. If you think the reason this manga doesn't appeal to me is because I'm outside the age demographic, then why do you all like it? I know there are plenty of you here that are around my age, maybe a little younger, maybe a little older.

Now let me tell you what I do like. I love One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, Soul Eater, Bakuman and Dragonball, and, believe it or not, I do like the first half of Naruto. All of these are shonen titles that are outside my "age demographic" and I know plenty of other people around my age who read and like them as well. Age demographic is no reason for not liking something.

I can still rewatch old episodes of Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls, Rocko's Modern Life, Ren and Stimpy, and Animaniacs and still chuckle like an idiot, because they are legitimately good and entertaining series. Heck, even Sesame Street can be amusing.

The reason I don't like Naruto now isn't because of the age demographic, but because it's a shitty manga.

If nobodyman9 thinks naruto sucks, then maybe he should go and write something as popular as kishi.

I don't have to write a manga that's as popular as Kishi's. I don't need to be an artist or a writer to know that a manga is bad any more than I need to know how to run a country to know how good or bad a job the president is doing.

Oh, and I love the keyword you put in their: "Popular." Popularity has NEVER been an indication of quality.

[milan kyuubi]

The thing that is interesting is that Madara will help Naruto bring peace to the world. Even trough Naruto is staying out of the war for now, he still brings changes. It seamed to me that Naruto helped unite the alliance shinobi trough Gaara. Gaara did made that speech why thinking of Naruto.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

The reason I don't like Naruto now isn't because of the age demographic, but because it's a shitty manga.

Then by all means do us all the favor and stop reading it. If you think it's 'shitty' and you say you don't like Naruto, then there is no need for you to read it anymore is there.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

I don't have to write a manga that's as popular as Kishi's. I don't need to be an artist or a writer to know that a manga is bad any more than I need to know how to run a country to know how good or bad a job the president is doing.

You don't have to write new manga, just go read some other manga out there. I am really tired of your constant whining (and I am sure I am not the only one). So I am going to ask you nicely to stop troling, it's fine to post your opinion and to disagree with others. But what you are doing is not 'discussing' but complaining how bad this manga is. It seams you find some post then you separate that post on many parts and usually don't agree with anything. Then you usually became sarcastic and after that you start insulting others.

I am sorry for writing this but enough is enough, so stop it!

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

I know I said I didn't care anymore, but I can't ignore this, because it's just stupid. If you think the reason this manga doesn't appeal to me is because I'm outside the age demographic, then why do you all like it? I know there are plenty of you here that are around my age, maybe a little younger, maybe a little older.

Solid's point wasn't that you can't enjoy Naruto if you're outside the age demographic, it's just that you're not the target audience. That purely complaining without addressing points in any detail and your lack of willingness to even have a proper discussion by just dismissing people's tastes as stupid, irrational or impossible to understand aren't conducive to these people agreeing with you on anything.

Now let me tell you what I do like. I love One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, Soul Eater, Bakuman and Dragonball, and, believe it or not, I do like the first half of Naruto. All of these are shonen titles that are outside my "age demographic" and I know plenty of other people around my age who read and like them as well. Age demographic is no reason for not liking something.

I don't like Soul Eater or Bakuman. Soul Eater was fine until they decided to take the focus off the Kishin and onto alternate insanity sources. Insanity itself also seems to have been completely downgraded.

I can still rewatch old episodes of Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls, Rocko's Modern Life, Ren and Stimpy, and Animaniacs and still chuckle like an idiot, because they are legitimately good and entertaining series. Heck, even Sesame Street can be amusing.

I never liked -any- of those shows, and the only one I watched often was Dexter's lab, and that's just because it was featured on Cartoon Network at the time. My favorites? I watched Ranma 1/2, Cat's Eyes, Nicky Larson (aka City Hunter). I loved the old WB Cartoons like the roadrunner/Wily Coyote, Bugs Bunny and some disney classics, mostly Daffy Ducks. That's before the rhetoric in the Disney cartoons was dumbed down and diluted for the sake of young ones.

The reason I don't like Naruto now isn't because of the age demographic, but because it's a shitty manga.

Gotta wonder why people are getting sick of your trolling.

[GusGus]

The chapter was really bad, awful, the zombie fest is painful ridiculous and Gaara's speech was boring and childish, why does he have to bring up Naruto to the already silly speech?

I'm really loosing my faith in Kishimoto after the Pain arc, he doesn't seem to get his act together.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Oh, and I love the keyword you put in their: "Popular." Popularity has NEVER been an indication of quality.

This is true to an extent but here is another thing that is true, just because you don't like it doesn't make it shitty, popularity does count for something if lots of people like something that means it is doing something right and the others are not therefore it is not shitty.

IMO Bleach is a shitty manga sure it is popular but a lot of the same people who read it say it is stupid etc... so since the majority dislike its writing decisions that means it failed as a story. If it was only a few then it probably means the few don't like it and even though Bleach has gone shitty it doesn't make it a shitty manga (despite the fact I said it was) the way it is going and the way it was is good, the Espada arc was shite but that was only one part of it.

Also I like where the story is going, only complaints is the Narutism and lack of teamwork, taijutsu, character and overuse of flashy techniques but it looks like the teamwork aspect of it is coming back as well as some character development, Kishi is in no way perfect but he isn't doing too bad. Its boring to see the same person kick ass over and over again, what made Itachi such a good character is because he wasn't overused.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

The reason I don't like Naruto now isn't because of the age demographic, but because it's a shitty manga.

Considering that you seem to highly value mangas like One Piece and Dragon Ball, it's not really a surprise to me that you dislike part 2.

God forbid a shonen writer trying to actually make his series a bit more serious in nature! We should have jokes in inappropriate times to relieve tension every few panels, and a cast who gets a 1 episode sob story that is utter shit to interrupt the flow of every arc.

Yes. Thank you kishimoto that you stopped wasting time on the useless rookies. Thank you that you made your manga more serious in nature. It's what has kept Naruto interesting to me even at this age.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Yes. Thank you kishimoto that you stopped wasting time on the useless rookies.

The funny thing is he never really wrote about the rookies that much in the first place. Most of their focus was during the chuunin exams. Ino? Her story ended after the Sakura fight. Tenten and Shino were never focused on. Kiba was only given attention when he fought Naruto and was given some decent character development during the Sasuke Rescue Arc. Lee's story ended after fighting Kimimaro. Choji's ended after he fought Jirabo. Neji's story really could have ended after Naruto beat him. But Kishi put the final touches on it after the Kidomaru fight. Hinata? Do we even need to go there?

Of the original 15 genin, the only ones to maintain any focus and development are the main characters of Sasuke, Naruto, Sakura, and the semi-mains of Shikamaru and Gaara. The rest don't really matter. But this war does allow Kishi to give them some fanservice which is warranted. There is nothing wrong with that.

[ronin myael]

i admit that this chapter is overly dramatic and even cheesy, but in my opinion it was done in true naruto fashion. naruto has always been cheesy! it's dramatic and annoying at times. kishimoto is not perfect, and sometimes i think he doesn't know what he's doing. if i could talk to him i would definitely question him regarding the "plot holes" that i've noticed and why he did what he did. but whether the manga is good or not is not the point. we all have differing opinions regarding the matter. we could argue about that for as long as we could and still nobody would win. the point is naruto is no longer just a series anymore, it's practically an institution. it has transcended age, gender and even race. naruto has become one of the biggest franchises in the history of manga/anime. we can hate kishi, question his work and say that it's full of crap yet we're still here discussing about it. the fact is, we're all anime/manga fans and whether we admit it or not, we all liked naruto somewhat at some point. i can't speak for everyone but in my case, i read the manga simply because i want to know how it will end. i may criticize kishi a lot but that doesn't mean i'm not willing to give him a chance to redeem himself somewhat before the series ends. i'm not expecting much though. so how about you guys? why do you still read/watch naruto despite all the crap that kishi put us through over the years?