2010-01-30, 16:59 | Link #921 | |
posting in a retarded way
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
Yes, he did lose sight of her, but a being able to move that fast doesn't need to pay any attention to slow reloading weapons like crossbows or ballistae. A ton of casualties? More like half of the army and then it will just regenerate, because there are so many bodies ripe for eviscerating and eating a happy menu of guts, guts and a lot more guts. And my last but not least point , don't forget why the Claymores use Claymores. The only weapon hard enough to penetrate the skin of such hardy foes. You can make a rod strong, fast and big, but it would be stationary. Making it easily evadable and a large icon like an exclamation mark saying: "Please attack our weapon here, o mighty adversary. It is our only chance against you." We are still speaking about the time span of bringing the Dragonkins out and before the enemy could react, or aren't we? |
|
2010-01-30, 17:00 | Link #922 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
|
Am I the only one that thought of Priscilla as remotely similar to Tetsuo from Akira (towards the end of the movie)? The moment her body exploded into a formless mass against Isley. Meh
A weird comparison (and probably off topic) on my part. |
2010-01-30, 17:03 | Link #923 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Quote:
Clare was a coward ?! Like when she didn't fear Teresa even when she was kicked by her (and I remind you that village elder pissed himself after just seeing a claymore) or when she tried to defend Teresa from a bandit? As for Clare being paralysed by fear when Priscilla awakened, she would have to be insane to not be. She was a defenceless kid that encountered an unimaginable monster while losing the dearest person at the same time. I wouldn't call that cowardice but natural reaction of fear. What else she could do besides crying? Attack Priscilla? If Clare was a coward then what would you call Helen? Or Rachel? Or Audrey?Or even Miria? I remind you that we're comparing trained warriors to a girl. So in your opinion Raki was a coward too, huh? Last edited by Gooral; 2010-01-31 at 02:00. |
||
2010-01-30, 17:19 | Link #926 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
|
Quote:
You've taken it out of context, I was using the past tense because I was talking about the past and I did not say that she's not a monster anymore. |
|
2010-01-30, 17:20 | Link #927 | |
Dark Lord of Animesuki
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Orange...you can't beat the Cuse, in basketball or snowfall!
|
Quote:
However, I'm wondering if you considered the possibility of crossbow bolts made out of the same forged metal from which claymores are made? If you shot Isley with those, don't you think they'd have some effect? I realize he might be able to regenerate, but around what? How do you regenerate when the weapon's stuck in you? If I were wanting to stop Isley with an army of humans, I'd have a bunch of pikemen, and back them up with an army of crossbowmen. If possible, I'd lace their metal bolts with poison. I'd like to see any Awakened "regenerate" when all it does is spread the poison faster! The key here I think is we need to consider why Dragonkin and Awakened on their own are not the sole combatants. If you were a general in this war, you'd want your human soldiers to have a counter to Dragonkin/Awakened if yours were to run off or die. So what then, Creangeru, would you use?
__________________
Last edited by revan5; 2010-01-30 at 17:34. |
|
2010-01-30, 17:29 | Link #928 | |
posting in a retarded way
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
Well if you are talking about the past you are implying it is already over, isn't it? But her monster-like powers are still there even today. I was not talking about right or wrong, but about her past powers and her present powers. |
|
2010-01-30, 17:41 | Link #929 | ||
The One Eyed King
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
|
Quote:
My point being both Clare and Raki have gotten over there fears. Or at least don't let it effect their actions. Quote:
Oh, and being a coward for one moment in one's life doesn't make them a coward. My point was that she was scared back then, hates herself for it, and has gotten over being scared anymore (she's seen the worst it can get and now it won't phase her again). Unlike most defensive warriors who never have escaped there fear. Your just nit picking my point and wording. She was very scared back then... so what if the way I worded it was a more extreme point of view on the matter. I made my point and you yours lets move on. As to that quote of mine that you laughed at... it was only half my point... so thanks for taking it out of context. Whatever though... your comment was funny. More seriously the other half of that point was about all abused children desiring protection. Which is why the first half was true. I was on the phone multitasking at the time... apparently not too well. I worded it kinda bad looking back at it. As to Helen... she's an idiot who only realizes how much she's messed up once it's too late. Then is like Oh... F***! Thankfully Miria, Clare, and Deneve are there for her. Rachel didn't know what hit her... so I fail to see the cowardice action you are referring too. Miria only fear was that her death wasn't going to be quick and she was help less... at least she tried to struggle before the AB's tong pierced her gut. That's not cowardliness since she choose to risk herself to save everyone. She had every right to fear being tortured to death but it wasn't cowardliness... especially since there is a chance she could awaken if he went really slowly (though we didn't know that at the time). (I wounder if he would have let her... doubt it though (even based on how hot she is ). She'd likely be far stronger than him and therefore a threat.) |
||
2010-01-30, 17:50 | Link #930 | |
posting in a retarded way
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
There are too many casualties and two many super weapons to make a stalemate. Looking at the pictures when Miria explains the whole battle, we see one AB fighting with three Dragonkins and the footmen? They fight as if it were nothing to fight beside a 30 or 100 feet tall monster. The casualties from friendly fire must be greater than the casualties from the actual war. But to get back to your question what I would use I just don't know. And it is exactly this little explanation gap that annoys me. Between quickly taking control of the battle and quickly trying to invent new weapons there must be time to obliterate the enemy. No matter how fast you breed your ABs, it isn't fast enough in a battle against the Dragonkins. Last edited by Creangeru; 2010-01-30 at 18:18. |
|
2010-01-30, 20:35 | Link #931 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
I think she meant Okham's razor.
It is basically a principle that can be applied in many domains of science and it says something about simpler methods being the best. I will need to check my philosophy notes >__> Where is the new chapter? |
2010-01-30, 20:41 | Link #932 | |
Angriest Angel
Join Date: Nov 2007
|
Quote:
but if we talk here that way we can almost stop talking because for a fruitful discussion we have to make assumptions and violate ockham's razor. The trick is IMO not to violate it too much and base theories on sources of the manga. An example for an IMO far fetched speculation is that raki is an DoD and therefore can withstand the parasites.
__________________
|
|
2010-01-30, 21:41 | Link #933 | |
Thread Hijacker
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
|
Quote:
|
|
2010-01-30, 21:50 | Link #934 | |
Dark Lord of Animesuki
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Orange...you can't beat the Cuse, in basketball or snowfall!
|
Quote:
The reason why is distances. Eventually the very same fast advances that were lauded originally lead to overextension and opportunities at counterattacks. It's what did in the Nazis against the Soviet Union. In this case though, with the presence of the Dragonkin, their alliance is strong enough to withstand most of those counterattacks. But if controllable awakened beings become a possibility, then all hell and uncertainty break out. Conquering the world, even with these relative "superweapons", is going to be a long, hard slog. I am therefore not shocked that the Organization could merely move its research elsewhere when backed by the 2nd most powerful alliance of countries on the planet. Nor am I surprised that the Dragonkin are probably not able to completely win out easily. Here's what I pictured. The early war goes badly for the Organization's alliance, so what do you do to stop an enormous monster like Dragonkin? You "scorch the earth". Yes, you purposely wipe out all their possible food supplies along all lines of advance. Therefore, in order to attack, they must bring lots of slow-moving food with them, allowing the alliance to be able to intercept them. If I had a guess as to how they stopped them after the first couple of disastrous engagements, the "scorched earth policy" tops my list. If it worked against Napoleon and Hiter, why not in medieval warfare against hungry monsters? After all, it's attacking them where they're most vulnerable...their food supply!
__________________
|
|
2010-01-30, 22:41 | Link #936 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
|
you guys discussing how the humans survived for so long against the dragonkin forget that there originally were many more camps than just the two sides of humans vs dragonkin. Possibly the dragonkin had vendetta against each other, or the territory of one dragonkin clan was blocking another's. Quite possibly the dragonkin were keeping each other in check, and never really considered humans as serious foes until they came up with the mass production of AB. Miria said that the war on the mainland eventually became humans vs dragonkin, not that it started that way.
|
2010-01-30, 23:18 | Link #938 | |
Insufficiently Inebriated
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
|
Quote:
Remark the second: "Occam's" (or "Ockham's") is correct. Remark the third: since apparently the principle of Occam's razor is an obscure reference (which boggles me), I'll tender an explanation. In simple terms, it runs as follows: "all other things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best." In more detail, as it applies to inductive logic, it suggests that when looking for an explanation for an issue, one should discard facets of that explanation which are not of necessity required. Basically, if you have two competing hypotheses which both purport to explain some issue, but one of them contains some piece of extra speculation external to the situation at hand, then the other is likely the better solution. As it applies to Priscilla, there are three viable hypotheses as I see them. They run as follows: First, following the known connection between defensive type warriors and regeneration abilities, we examine Priscilla's regeneration capability, note that it by far exceeds that of any other being we have met, and conclude that Priscilla must have been a defensive type, even if this means that we must discard more tenuous evidence to the contrary regarding her personality. (We have so little actual contact with pre-awakened Priscilla's personality that basically the only thing we have to go on in this regard is the tidbit about her killing the youma that ate her father. Post-awakened Priscilla's personality presents other obvious difficulties.) The second hypothesis says that even though offensive warriors cannot regenerate, they gain that ability after awakening, albeit not to the extent evidenced by defensive ABs. Thus, the insane regeneration exhibited by Priscilla is simply an artifact of her overwhelming strength, despite the fact that she is an offensive type. In addition to failing Occam's razor by adding an unneeded explanation into the mix, this theory has problems of its own. First and foremost, her aforementioned "insane strength" is primarily demonstrated by her regeneration capability itself. Remember the attack she used to defeat Isley. (It also appears to be the same move she used to eat Riful.) It is basically an extension of her regenerative capacity itself, and it is by all appearances her primary attack. Second, regeneration capacity in offensive warriors appears to be independent of their overall strength. Third, if she is an offensive type and this hypothesis holds, then regeneration is one of her lesser abilities. If that is so, she has yet to exhibit a greater. The third hypothesis is slightly different. It says that although Priscilla is an offensive type and should thus be relatively poor at regeneration, she sidestepped this limitation by developing her regeneration as an offensive attack. This explanation avoids the flaws of the second hypothesis, but it fails Occam's razor in a big way by positing an unnecessary external claim for which there is zero independent supporting evidence. The only benefit this explanation has over the first is that we don't need to discount the small bit we know about her pre-awakening personality; however, as I mentioned above, that evidence is tenuous at best. Lastly, regarding personality, I'll note the following: outmatched and missing an arm, our dear protagonist attacked her pursuer by chopping down trees; outmatched but otherwise unharmed, our poor antagonist cowered at her foe's feet paralyzed with fear thinking "I don't want to die." Last edited by Aimless; 2010-01-30 at 23:37. |
|
|
|