GONZO sending C&Ds

[ze Moose]

Taken from www.shinsen-subs.org:

Hello everyone,

Once again, Shinsen-Subs is in the spotlight of anime companies. Earlier today we have received an e-mail in form of Cease and Desist letter from FUNimation legal department regarding violation of Digital Millenium Copyright Act.
GDH K.K. has authorized FUNimation Entertainment to take any such enforcement actions on behalf of GDH K.K. for the purpose of stopping copyright infringement.
For those of you that are not really familiar with either of these respective companies, please click this and this link.
GDH K.K. owns and controls various exclusive copyrights and trademarks related to the animated motion pictures known as Romeo x Juliet ®. Among the exclusive rights of GDH K.K. are the rights for production and distribution of home videos, DVDs, and other home video formats and devices.
FUNimation Entertainment therefore demands that we expeditiously disable all access to said infringing materials.

In the letter that we have received, it is explicitly said that GDH K.K. has authorized FUNimation Entertainment to enforce their rights, therefore do not read this as an implicit announcement of FUNimation Entertainment's licensing of the said property. This is merely one company acting as a legal representative of another.
Of course, we have already complied to the requests in the letter and this project is hereby dropped. I hope everyone enjoyed it so far. I would like to thank the RxJ team who worked very hard on this and I would also like to thank everyone who followed us thus far.

To my knowledge this is the first occurence of Japanese company actually sending a C&D during an ongoing anime - MFI issued a C&D for DVD episodes that were fansubbed before the actual release in Japan - so we might see more of this in the future. Let's hope that means more high quality anime from Japan and more high quality translations from your local licensees.

We were not asked to remove the other GONZO related material we currently serve (Kaze no Stigma etc.) but I would expect to see another similar letter for those shows later.

Like mentioned in the quote, this is probably the first time that the Japanese production studio asks the fansubbers to stop subbing and serving their ongoing show. This could have a big impact on fansubbing in general if other Japanese companies intend to adopt this kind of a policy as well.

[Calawain]

Hmmm, unless Funimation holds the rights to Romeo x Juliet it isn't really a violation of the DMCA. So I assume they just haven't announced licensing yet, or it hasn't been formalized. I mean aside from it not making sense within the text of the DMCA, if they really thought an un-licensed anime distro was a violation of the DMCA they would have mentioned all of the other Gonzo titles you are subbing/have subbed.

[ze Moose]

They made it kinda clear in their mail that they are only acting as the legal representative for GDH. Still, I would say that it's likely that you're right.

[Vexx]

Bleh... more fun in the vein of MFI.

I'd just like to know how the hell I'm supposed to make an informed choice on what DVDs to buy without having seen the broadcast series.
Answer: if I can't see the broadcast series... I'll return to my pre-fansub days of not buying much of anything.

If they want to exercise this sort of thing, they *need* to be broadcasting subbed series to the R1 region. And no, Adult Swim, CN, don't cut it --- they don't show the gamut of what is being broadcasted nor do they usually show the genres I'm interested in. This isn't me taking a chance on a $20 movie I've not seen... this is me looking at plunking several hundred dollars down on a series. Therefore, I think getting the same preview that japanese consumers get is important.

[Supersonic]

Originally Posted by Calawain

Hmmm, unless Funimation holds the rights to Romeo x Juliet it isn't really a violation of the DMCA.

By authorizing Funimation to act as an agent of GONZO, it is perfectly allowed for them to send DMCA notices on their behalf. If GONZO did not make such an authorization, Funimation could indeed get in trouble for filing a false DMCA request. I doubt they'd be that stupid, however.

[Xellos-_^]

one of these days i am going to go to a anime convention and ask the anime company reps directly about fansubs. I am also going to show photos of my massive anime collection and ask them if they really the want to me stop watching fansubs and mot buy any of theirr dvds.

Every anime dvd i own i have either seen the entire series before or at least partial of it.

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by Supersonic

By authorizing Funimation to act as an agent of GONZO, it is perfectly allowed for them to send DMCA notices on their behalf. If GONZO did not make such an authorization, Funimation could indeed get in trouble for filing a false DMCA request. I doubt they'd be that stupid, however.

I realize that they seem to be saying they are acting on behalf of Gonzo, I was more saying along the lines of the problems associated with foreign held copyrights and bittorrent trackers being the basis for a DMCA takedown. I don't dispute the fact that they claim to be representing Gonzo, if they do that falsely yes they do get in very big trouble. What I was getting at was something different. I've spent some time researching the topic on Westlaw and have yet to find an instance where there has been a judicial decision on it. The requirements of the DMCA takedown notice are pretty weak, you only need a good faith belief in the validity of your claim, so if the law is unsettled on the issue they could make the notice without fear of reprisal. Although I've only spent an hour or so looking into it, so who knows. An interesting strategy regardless, we shall see how this pans out.

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'd just like to know how the hell I'm supposed to make an informed choice on what DVDs to buy without having seen the broadcast series.
Answer: if I can't see the broadcast series... I'll return to my pre-fansub days of not buying much of anything.

Same here. In the past, I have made a few "blind" purchases of anime, and ran about two to one in terms of being unhappy verus happy with my purchases. After I really "discovered" fansubs and downloading, my anime purchases made an expotential jump in terms of dollars.

Five years ago, I probably spent $40-60 per year on anime (mostly the latest Miyazaki movie or some other high-profile anime). This year I have already spent over $500-600 and will probably be closer to $1000 by the end of the year.

All of them series that I saw as fansubs first.

[2H-Dragon]

Ah fansubbers see this as a sign give up on anime and start working on manga. <3

On a serious note. That's fucked up imho. Unless it's 100% sure they are going to make english releases.

Still I always find it gay that we have to w8 so long for a crappier release. >.> The only good part is the quality of the vids, but that's about it.

[Xellos-_^]

I would love to see more manga being work on. There is osme great series i would love get my hands on but no one either work on it or is not license in the us.

[Vexx]

@mdauben: Same story here... prior to learning about fansubs, I spent on the average..... $0/year on DVDs, figures, etc.
With fansubs, I now swing between $1000 and $1500 a year on DVDs, figures, CDs, etc.

Fansubs give me the same preview access that japanese region consumers get. There are no 'official' equivalents in R1-land. In Japan, many consumers watch the broadcast series without buying a thing ... are they leechers? Nope. That's an insta-fail argument.
Its very simple, C&Ders should provide an access method for viewing anime series just like the way japanese consumers get that includes such diversity as I get through fansubs.

Now if they want to jump up and down on fansubs of *DVDs* ... I'd say "here's a club, work up a sweat " ... but drop the region coding or even that argument looks weak.

[mone-chan]

The first anime company to send out a C&D was Media Factory over Akane Maniax and it was a C&D for all Media Factory titles past present and future. Animesuki was one of the websites to get the C&D. In the discussion on it I explained why they sent it. You see the Japanese companies are not to happy about fansubs but they see it as a problem that American companies should take care of so for only rare exceptions they will not do anything.

Two of these exceptions are 1) the fansub is released before the street date of a DVD only release (Akane Maniax) 2) the fansubs are used to make subbed DVDs that are put on the net or even worse sold. I think number 2 is the reason that Romeo x Juliet is getting a C&D about it. I know that fansubed versions of Vol 1 and 2 have been made and put on the net even though I don't know if it's using the Shinsen fansubs as I have not watched the shinsen releases of the Fansubed DVDs I can't for a fact say that is the reason but something like that would really upset Gonzo and cause them to act.

As far as who sends out the C&D it's more effective to have an American company used as a proxy than for the Japanese to do it themselves. Paying or just authorizing Funimation to do it saves Gonzo both time and money and still sends the same message. [we are not at all happy with what you are doing or what is going on].

ps. Don't bother Personal mailing me about how or where to find the DVD fansubs as I only look to see what's out there and have no reason to waste bandwith downloading them. I spend $200-$300 per month on R2 DVDs alone with Over half of my R2 DVD collection being from Gonzo or Media Factory. I do support Geneon by getting both R1 and R2 releases of the shows I like the best but Solty Rei is the last FUNimation release I will ever buy (it has nothing to do with them sending out C&Ds I just don't like some of the things they do.)

[SeijiSensei]

Frequently Asked Questions about the DMCA Safe Harbor and Take Down Provisions

It's really unclear to me how the DMCA applies to fansubbers like Shinsen, especially if the torrent files don't reside on a server that Shinsen itself maintains. Take down notices were intended to be used when a "service provider" (a very broad term in the DMCA that includes both web site hosting services and search engines, among others) is found to be distributing infringing materials or, more relevant here, providing links to infringing materials. Often the ISP is totally unaware of the existence of the infringing materials since they could have been uploaded by one of its customers. (The "Safe Harbor" provisions concern the requirements ISPs must follow to be exempt from prosecution for infringement.)

This isn't to say that fansubbing does not per se infringe the copyright of the program owner; I believe it does. But that's not the situation the DMCA is designed to handle. I think a lot of rights holders are sending out DMCA notices because they have much weaker requirements, and thus considerably lower costs, than actually bringing suit against someone for infringement.

IANAL, but I do follow these issues.

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Frequently Asked Questions about the DMCA Safe Harbor and Take Down Provisions

It's really unclear to me how the DMCA applies to fansubbers like Shinsen, especially if the torrent files don't reside on a server that Shinsen itself maintains. Take down notices were intended to be used when a "service provider" (a very broad term in the DMCA that includes both web site hosting services and search engines, among others) is found to be distributing infringing materials or, more relevant here, providing links to infringing materials. Often the ISP is totally unaware of the existence of the infringing materials since they could have been uploaded by one of its customers. (The "Safe Harbor" provisions concern the requirements ISPs must follow to be exempt from prosecution for infringement.)

This isn't to say that fansubbing does not per se infringe the copyright of the program owner; I believe it does. But that's not the situation the DMCA is designed to handle. I think a lot of rights holders are sending out DMCA notices because they have much weaker requirements, and thus considerably lower costs, than actually bringing suit against someone for infringement.

IANAL, but I do follow these issues.

You're pretty close I think, the DMCA has fairly loose requirements and is often abused without a solid application to the statute. However, providing a torrent tracker by itself is a very very loose application of the DMCA and hasn't been judicially decided. Now at a base theory creating the fansub itself is an infringement upon some copyright out there, in Japan in most cases. The problem is that when foreign works are involved, copyright claims brought in US courts become very very complicated. Japan I assume is a Berne Convention company, but if the studios have not registered the individual series copyright here in the states then it becomes a lot harder to successfully prosecute a copyright infringement claim. Now of course the Japanese companies could sue fansubbers in Japanese court and win, but that would have zero affect since their judgments are not enforceable here.

I also will note that IANAL....yet ;x

[Vexx]

And again, I'd have to ask... there's a demonstrated *need* being supplied by fansubs that benefits the industry (viewing broadcast series and then buying the DVDs -- exactly the model used in japan but met by the televison stations there that anime producers pay to air their series). The C&Ds may "protect" IP (don't get me started about IP concepts) but they're still not responding to the *basic* business problem of how do you expect consumers to buy your products when they can't see the "advertisements" (the broadcast series)?

I'd really like to see these C&Ds coupled with anime producers providing a channel that provides subbed torrents of broadcast series for some flat fee (again looking at the equivalent model in Japan where the producers have to pay to get their 'advertisements'(series) on the air). There's just a serious lack of solution seeking here ...

[Potatochobit]

the answer is dont buy it.

the only way these people will get it through their heads is if they go bankrupt.

you will survive without one or two series from a certain publisher.

[mone-chan]

Even after the United States became a signatory to the Berne Convention, the U.S. Copyright Act had no moral right provision except for Article 106A. The Japanese Act has moral right provisions in Articles 18 to 20, which are the right of making the work public, right of determining the indication of the author’s name, and the right of preserving the integrity of the work.

Art.20

The Author shall have the right to preserve the integrity of his work[ and it's title against any distortion, mutilation or other modification against his will.

from http://www.softic.or.jp/en/articles/..._sugiyama.html
As fansubs violate the Morality Rights in Japanese copyright laws Companies dislike it for that reason. Also if you look at the bottom of the article you will see damages from Japanese courts ($80 US) VS. American Courts ($400,000 US) would lead the Japanese companies to use US companies to protect the Japanese copyrights. They can't sue in US courts for Morality rights but can for distribution rights.

[bayoab]

A reminder that thanks to the wording of the DMCA, anything "enabling" copyright infringement can be C&D'd. If there are instructions to use a black pen to bypass copyright protection, the company can C&D them to remove that information.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

one of these days i am going to go to a anime convention and ask the anime company reps directly about fansubs. I am also going to show photos of my massive anime collection and ask them if they really the want to me stop watching fansubs and mot buy any of theirr dvds.

Every anime dvd i own i have either seen the entire series before or at least partial of it.

And they are going to point to all the people around you and ask how many of them have fansubs and are buying the DVDs too. The numbers the industry puts out indicate less than 10% of fansub watchers buy DVDs on average.

Originally Posted by mone-chan

The first anime company to send out a C&D was Media Factory over Akane Maniax and it was a C&D for all Media Factory titles past present and future.

Incorrect. There were multiple C&Ds prior to the MFI one. This is just the one everyone remembers. One prior example is a C&D from KyoAni regarding Munto.

[ImperialPanda]

Something tells me R1 anime distributors don't really have the funding to back up a drawn out legal battle...

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by bayoab

A reminder that thanks to the wording of the DMCA, anything "enabling" copyright infringement can be C&D'd. If there are instructions to use a black pen to bypass copyright protection, the company can C&D them to remove that information.

Truth, though there are repercussions for abusing the C&D.

And they are going to point to all the people around you and ask how many of them have fansubs and are buying the DVDs too. The numbers the industry puts out indicate less than 10% of fansub watchers buy DVDs on average.

I believe the phrase is "numbers pulled out of some industry orifice" .... these are the same sort of noises punted by the recording industry that get shredded by independent studies. Until they produce their study protocols and data, I politely call "wishful thinking" on that sound bite. A more credible objection is the notion they're not in full control of their product under the current situation.... but they have not yet provided the sort of "preview" mechanism that lets consumers make informed choices about purchasing (like the japanese consumers have by watching the broadcasts).