Children on AnimeSuki

[SeijiSensei]

Lately I've noticed postings from some children under thirteen years of age. In the current "how old are you" thread, there are postings alleging that some members are as young as ten. Now I know as well as anyone that people's posted ages may have no relationship to their true ages, but the tone and language of these postings suggest that these reports are sincere.

I read the Forum Rules again just now and don't see any mention of a minimum age for participation on AS. There is the exhortation that posted content be suitable for a "PG-13" audience, but that's about it as far as I can tell.

Until this year AS resided on servers outside the US, but the servers are now located in Texas. This makes AS subject to American laws about Internet content and practices, and specifically, the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (or "COPPA"). In the linked document, the US Federal Trade Commission describes situations where the privacy provisions of COPPA apply:

"The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act and Rule apply to individually identifiable information about a child that is collected online, such as full name, home address, email address, telephone number or any other information that would allow someone to identify or contact the child. The Act and Rule also cover other types of information -- for example, hobbies, interests and information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms -- when they are tied to individually identifiable information."

While AS doesn't collect real names and addresses, it does collect email addresses and obviously also "hobbies" since almost by definition everyone here is involved in anime and manga. A strict interpretation of the law might suggest that AS is required to provide the extensive privacy notice described in the linked document and may be required to provide parents with the ability to review, and reject, their children's participation in AS.

Not being an attorney, I can't really say how applicable any of this is to AS. I do think that we might consider setting a minimum age of 13 for participation on AnimeSuki. This would make it clear that AS is not intended as a place where children are expected to participate and thus perhaps remove any onus to develop the policies demanded by COPPA.

Speaking as a father for the moment, I'd say that some of the content posted here is not really appropriate for ten-year-olds. Posters sometimes use "colorful" language, and some of the graphic content, especially in signatures, might be viewed as too sexually explicit for younger members (cf. the recent thread on NSFW signatures). I'm also concerned that some day the parent of a younger child will happen by and see sigs with panty shots or girls with their undies falling off and raise an unfortunate ruckus. I know I'd feel more comfortable with an explicit policy that 13 is the minimum age for participation on AS.

[NoSanninWa]

Oh dear god save me from pointlessly intrusive government.

I suppose we might have to institute a minimum age of 13 so that 8 year olds can lie about their age and stay on the forum without getting us in trouble. "He said he was 208 years old, so why shouldn't we have believed him?"

[Potatochobit]

when you register for the first time isn't there a disclaimer? most public forums have this.

[Radiosity]

Just checked and there is indeed a disclaimer, but no mention is made of age.

Originally Posted by AnimeSuki

Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.

Although the administrators and moderators of AnimeSuki Forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of AnimeSuki Forum, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of AnimeSuki Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

The usual 'I am over or exactly 13 years of age bleh' would be a good idea I feel, particularly given some of the uh... loli? Ecchi? Gory? Etc. etc. content that it's possible to be exposed to in a lot of anime, even if the board itself doesn't necessarily expose us to graphic content like that. Of course, you still get the various 'spoiler=nsfw' links in image threads and so on.

As NSFW said, it's not gonna stop anyone from lying about their age, but at least the site won't get in trouble over it if there's a proper disclaimer in place

edit: Oh boy, that was a typo and a half lol Sorry, NoSanninWa, seems you're not safe for work lol

[felix]

Hmm.. so Seiji's saing the forum should ban people under 13?
Or should extensive access masks be created? ~ something like that right.

~ Rad -- I checked it too, the system has definitely changed from back when I registered. There was definitely a over 13-years thingy back then, No Spam-Check and a different disclaimer etc. as well as some extra options in there.

[SweetHoney]

Well I do remeber some new memebers when I first joined. Back then younger kids did get up alot of posters for NSFW posts. Well really it was their fault for opening the spoiler tag. But as NSW said if we do, it won't stop them lieing about their age at all

Also If we do do this will I be included? Well really in 6months I'm 14 =/.

But yea Seji does have a point about the little kids.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

edit: Oh boy, that was a typo and a half lol Sorry, NoSanninWa, seems you're not safe for work lol

I've been aware of that for a long time now. Curse you for making that knowledge public.

[wingdarkness]

I'm confused...Now why should animesuki be parenting children again?

I think the thread-starter is underestimating the interweb-saavy of 13 and under browsers ...

[felix]

Yes, if they're under 13 and the parents really feel (s)he need special attention then stoping whatever navigation on the net is a must ~ for say if things on animesuki are as bad as said, then what about the sites (s)he might visit if he doesn't come here ~

Aren't we spoiling the parents by indulging in such actio- Oh so that's it ~ Seiji-san ~ tsk tsk tsk There are simpler solutions Seiji, just make sure you create the account and then just add bookmark entries to all the pages you think are safe, then just add some custom CSS to hide the navigation bar ~ problem solved.

Originally Posted by SweetHoney

But yea Seji does have a point about the little kids.

Wonder what our little friend Tea_Servant would have to say about this topic ~

[Potatochobit]

no pointing fingers w

[Radiosity]

Originally Posted by SweetHoney

Also If we do do this will I be included?

Nope, because the COPPA statement reads 'I am over or EXACTLY 13 years of age and I agree to the terms blahblahblah'. It'd only apply if you were 12. And would you be likely to stop visiting because of that anyway?

Originally Posted by NSW

I've been aware of that for a long time now. Curse you for making that knowledge public.

My work here is done

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I'm confused...Now why should animesuki be parenting children again?

It's not a question of us or AS parenting children, it's covering your own ass. If there isn't a disclaimer in place for this situation and a parent unwittingly caught their child looking at an ecchi picture on AS, who do you think would be in some serious trouble if they didn't have that disclaimer in place? Yup, AS would.

With the COPPA notice on signup, the responsibility then rests with the child/ parent, not AS.

Originally Posted by Cats

Yes, if they're under 13 and the parents really feel (s)he need special attention then stoping whatever navigation on the net is a must ~ for say if things on animesuki are as bad as said, then what about the sites (s)he might visit if he doesn't come here ~

Again, no concern of ours or Animesuki's. We all know what a wonderfully liberal place the net is for the most part, but covering your own behind against the idiot parents that don't have a clue is just common sense

[KiNA]

Does it matter? I dont remember the last time I enter AS unlogged.. but this is not a protected forum.. unregistered 1 year old can still open the page and look at all those NSFW stuff anyway >.>

Thats why its the poster that have the responsibility to ensure whats postable and whats not.. I did try to ensure tagging my spoiler if I post NSFW pic in Shuffle forum back when Tea_Serchan (aka SweetSummer) is around..

Says the "Corruptor of minds"

[Radiosity]

Originally Posted by KiNa

Does it matter? I dont remember the last time I enter AS unlogged.. but this is not a protected forum.. unregistered 1 year old can still open the page and look at all those NSFW stuff anyway >.>

That depends on everyone being as responsible as you KiNa. And let's be honest here, who's more likely to be getting into trouble? Some random forumite for posting a naughty image that some parent finds disagreeable, or AnimeSuki? How many parents are informed enough to know it's not AS at fault? How many would actually care?
And how many would immediately start yelling about AS being a 'bad influence', that bastard phrase that people use when they know they don't have a solid case or just simply have no clue what the hell they're on about?

It's more or less on par with parents and games. OHNOES, violent video games make normal people kill! Pff, yeah right. In the same way, they'd likely take a look at AS and go off on one as well, and if AS didn't have that 13 or older confirmation in place, there could well be serious problems.

It's all 'what if' and 'it's unlikely' and so on, but it could happen, and it's best to be prepared. Meh, went on a bit longer than I intended there

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

It's not a question of us or AS parenting children, it's covering your own ass. If there isn't a disclaimer in place for this situation and a parent unwittingly caught their child looking at an ecchi picture on AS, who do you think would be in some serious trouble if they didn't have that disclaimer in place? Yup, AS would.

Thanks for understanding my concerns, Radiosity. Yes, it's about CYA.

@Cats
Of course, I think parents have the responsibility for monitoring their children's behavior, both online and offline. I raise this issue not to praise the "nanny state," but to suggest that AS needs to be aware of the regulatory regime in place in the US and act accordingly.

(If anyone had asked me, I would have suggested that the servers stay outside the US for lots of reasons including this one.)

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I think the thread-starter is underestimating the interweb-saavy of 13 and under browsers

I have an extremely "interweb-savvy" fifteen-year-old who's been online for perhaps half her life. Most of her friends have similar amounts of Internet experience. I don't have any illusions that we can effectively keep a determined child from lying about his or her age and registering here. What we can do is add a simple requirement that every new member check a box that says he or she is >=13. Having to comply with COPPA might be pointless, but there's no reason AS needs to be exposed to any liability for failing to comply.

I knew when I posted this thread that some people would look at my age and think I was just an old fuddy-duddy. Trust me, I'm about as liberal as it gets when it comes to things like free speech and diversity of thought. Nor did I hover over my child while she surfed the web. Unlike some parents I let her have a computer in her room that she could use in private. Could she have visited sites that I might have found inappropriate? Absolutely. Did I really care? No, not really. Not surprisingly she spent most of her online time IM'ing her friends from school or playing at sites like NeoPets. I did care about sites where she was asked to register because of perfectly legitimate concerns about protecting her identity. At one time her email address appeared on a Pokemon site we had built, and soon thereafter she started receiving spam emails about porn, some containing explicit images. Once you register an email address you don't know where it will end up.

Oh, and my concerns about this are just as strong about commercial content. I also didn't want companies emailing advertisements to her right and left. I'd find that activity offensive, too.

[innominate]

Whoa.

If AS' concern is that parents might sue AS due to the presence of NSFW images, I don't see the point of placing an age restriction for registration. For one, as kiNa has earlier stated, AS is a public forum. For two, if the child is intent on surfing explicit content, he/she won't do it on AS.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

What we can do is add a simple requirement that every new member check a box that says he or she is >=13.

Yeah highly feasible. If the child is a member, that is. Of course, it protects AS from the prospect of having someone question the direction in which the child is led to in his/her participation in the discussion forum, but again, it would only work to that extent, and I don't see how this restriction can dissuade one to surf around the forum.

The point is, if the parent feels strongly about such influence on the child so much such that he/she is willing to sue an online forum, he/she would probably not restrict him/herself from raising the aforementioned issue... that AS is not a protected forum, and that the restriction in no way denies his/her child from access to its content.

I find it rather absurd, that a parent should sue a website for its content. After all, how many other sites out there are there with similar, if not worse, content. Personally the first I would push the responsibility to would be those in direct contact with the child, i.e. the school/education system. But whatever, really.

Ah, oh well, another additional option would be to add a disclaimer declining responsibility for the content on AS. To be crude, "Surf at your own risk". Of course, you might not want to do that as it reflects badly upon the moderators and adminstrators, I don't know, really.

And, for all you know I may be below 13 myself. >_>

[WanderingKnight]

I find it rather absurd, that a parent should sue a website for its content. After all, how many other sites out there are there with similar, if not worse, content. Personally the first I would push the responsibility to would be those in direct contact with the child, i.e. the school/education system. But whatever, really.

There are so many absurd things in life... Specially regarding conservative US views about content protection for children (I know, I don't live there, but from what I gathered in my whole online experience, things aren't pretty for the liberal side). And you have to remember that the general public that knows that anime exists sees it under a general stigma, "Oh noes! It's children porn!". So I find it very likely that a couple of over-conservative parents would want to sue a site like AS after finding his/her child surfing through NSFW images. In my family, I know my mom or my dad would've just scolded me, or maybe only talked to me for a bit, but not all families are alike.

[innominate]

Yeah, agreed. I don't know how far parents can go, but I've heard of similar cases and sometimes when it comes to such anecdotes I don't know if I should be laughing or feeling that discordant sense of pity. But knight, my dear, whatever, really. ^^

I think I'd find it absolutely hilarious if someone actually does sue AS though, but as you said, it's actually quite likely that something like that may happen. The main concern would now not be to prevent such a situation from happening, but how to escape from it if it ever does. =D

~Lalalalala~

[Ledgem]

I think a lot of you are still missing the point. This isn't about whether we believe AnimeSuki should police anyone, or what we believe parents should do. In the United States of America, there is a law in place which SeijiSensei mentioned. I'm guessing it's there to "protect the children" and, agree with it or not, our servers are now on American soil. That means that we need to abide by these rules, ridiculous or not. I don't think it'd be asking too much to add in one of those disclaimers and "check here to certify that you are 13 or over" (although I remember there being one of those when I registered, I'm fairly certain). At the very least, that should cover the site.

After all, we wouldn't want this to become the AnimeSuki party van, now, would we?

[NoSanninWa]

Sorry, but I don't get that Party Van joke. Is it some sort of joke about not wanting to be investigated by the Dept of J? Because I don't understand how a Dept of J truck becomes a 4chan party van.

[felix]

That's a police van ~ get it