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Old 2014-03-03, 15:21   Link #4081
Galaxian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Galaxian

You should post a link regarding that explanation of Tenkai Hen Overture staff on Apollo's move of desperation to further convince 'em bro.
I would if a could, but I saw it as a video in youtube a long time ago (the Elysium Chapters had not even been animated back then). Can't find it.


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Something else to keep in mind guys, it's Pyrrhic victory if Appllo had to expel all that energy to win the fight.
I would say that is not a victory at all. Apollo's plan was the wipe humanity in it entirety, and he couldn't do that. Meanwhile, all that Seiya wanted was to leave his mark on Apollo, which he most certainty did.
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Old 2014-03-03, 15:45   Link #4082
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Wow, dude did you skip over my post? Physical strength and mental strength are two different animals.
The mind-wipe is just a side note. You still can't argue that Apollo overpowering both Athena & peak-Seiya which is all there in that scene for everybody to see. While those who claim "Seiya overpowering Apollo" only have "staff commentary" to back them up. That's the fact so far.

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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
You have to remember, no matter how iconic RyuSeiKen is, it still Seiya's weakest attack, and even that managed to break through Apollo's defense and harm him, while Apollo could not physically hurt Seiya.
You really think what type of punch he threw really important at that point in the story? It doesn't matter anymore. Seiya put all of his cosmo, all of his power, all of his resolve (plus the aid of God Cloth & Athena) into that single fist of his to punch Apollo silly. Furthermore, one can argue that it's not a Pegasus Ryuuseiken anymore, but just a one mega-powerful punch by Seiya (you should watch how Kouga smacked Abzu silly with his bare hands again if you still not convinced).
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Old 2014-03-03, 16:21   Link #4083
Galaxian
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
You really think what type of punch he threw really important at that point in the story? It doesn't matter anymore. Seiya put all of his cosmo, all of his power, all of his resolve (plus the aid of God Cloth & Athena) into that single fist of his to punch Apollo silly. Furthermore, one can argue that it's not a Pegasus Ryuuseiken anymore, but just a one mega-powerful punch by Seiya (you should watch how Kouga smacking Abzu silly with his bare hands again if you still aren't convinced).
And Apollo prepared an attack that was going to wipe out humanity and reset the entire world in one fell swoop, but failed because Seiya was more powerful than him. When Seiya's and Apollo's cosmo clashed, Seiya's won out since he's attack was the only one that actually hit the opponent.
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Old 2014-03-03, 16:28   Link #4084
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Not only are you actively ignoring what Galaxian and I are saying als you are downplaying the hell out of Seiya's attack Apollo.

Quote:
You still can't argue that Apollo overpowering both Athena & peak-Seiya which is all there in that scene for everybody to see.


You're seriously categorizing Apollo's assault here as overpowering? Seiya doesn't look battered in the least bit bro.
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Old 2014-03-03, 16:36   Link #4085
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
And Apollo prepared an attack that was going to wipe out humanity and reset the entire world in one fell swoop, but failed because Seiya was more powerful than him. When Seiya's and Apollo's cosmo clashed, Seiya's won out since he's attack was the only one that actually hit the opponent.
And you forgot how Seiya’s God Cloth got blown out and Seiya himself sent flying to god-knows-where? If a tiny scratch on a god's cheek is what you call “overpowering” then I think we’re not on the same wavelength. Seiya proved his point with that scratch, absolutely. But overpowering? I don’t think so.

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Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Not only are you actively ignoring what Galaxian and I are saying als you are downplaying the hell out of Seiya's attack Apollo.

You're seriously categorizing Apollo's assault here as overpowering? Seiya doesn't look battered in the least bit bro.
@Ozuma, I didn't ignore anything. It's just your assumption and accusation. I even quoted your post and Galaxian's.

Also, look at that scene. Apollo just casually raised his one hand while Seiya going all out. And Seiya's ultimate attack only resulted in a single tiny scratch in the post-credit scene. How's that not Apollo overpowering everyone?

And me downplaying Seiya's attack? wat? It's the opposite. I think it's Seiya's most powerful attack he did there. The one downplaying Seiya's attack is Galaxian by basically saying "It's Ryuuseiken, so its still his weakest attack".
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Old 2014-03-03, 16:50   Link #4086
Parry999
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Not to mention athena was scared shitless when Apollo appeared are you really saying seiya was stronger then athena at that time all never buy that bs.
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Old 2014-03-03, 17:07   Link #4087
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Originally Posted by Parry999 View Post
Not to mention athena was scared shitless when Apollo appeared
Yeah, it’s pretty much a very unusual reaction of her being that scared of a god (probably other than her dad) and said it outright that her power is incomparable to Apollo. So Apollo must be a really impressive mofo to make Athena reacted that way.
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Old 2014-03-03, 17:33   Link #4088
Galaxian
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For starters, that is not a God Cloth. We never had an official word of what that Cloth was, but is clearly not a God Cloth. Second, it disappeared after Apollo was hit, so if anything, it was when Seiya's memories were being wipe out.

Also, Athena only reacts like that when Apollo first shows up, but before the movie ends she'ls already completely over it. So that's completely meaningless for this argument.

Saying that RyuSeiKen is Seiya's strongest make me thing you never watched the original series and saw how SuiSeiKen and Rolling Crash came about.
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Old 2014-03-03, 17:49   Link #4089
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
For starters, that is not a God Cloth. We never had an official word of what that Cloth was, but is clearly not a God Cloth. Second, it disappeared after Apollo was hit, so if anything, it was when Seiya's memories were being wipe out.
That’s the same Cloth we saw Seiya was wearing during the flashback fight with Hades in the movie. And Seiya is supposed to wear God Cloth when he met Hades in the final Hades Arc. Remember, the movie is before the official anime-version God Cloth came to be, and before Hades Chapter Elysium.

Also, how can you be so sure without any doubt that Seiya's memory got wipe out the time when his cloth blown out?

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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
Also, Athena only reacts like that when Apollo first shows up, but before the movie ends she'ls already completely over it. So that's completely meaningless for this argument.
I’d say it’s her determination to face Apollo. Doesn’t really invalidate her first reaction.

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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
Saying that RyuSeiKen is Seiya's strongest make me thing you never watched the original series and saw how SuiSeiKen and Rolling Crash came about.
The thing is, what attack he uses doesn't matter at that point in the story. All Seiya’s cosmo was burn in that fist of his, that’s what matters. Again, watch how Kouga pummeled Abzu with his bare hands to see how insignificant the technique you use when it comes to battle of pure cosmo.

PS: I watched the old series in its entirety. So I know fully well about Seiya's attacks.
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Old 2014-03-03, 17:56   Link #4090
Ozuma
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Originally Posted by Parry999 View Post
Not to mention athena was scared shitless when Apollo appeared are you really saying seiya was stronger then athena at that time all never buy that bs.
Athena was hardly "scared shitless". She was just looking at her brother with a look of serenity.

@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

If you knew "about the classic series in its entirety" then you'd be able to tell the difference between "a mega punch" and Seiya's Ryuseiken.
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Old 2014-03-03, 18:15   Link #4091
Galaxian
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
That’s the same Cloth we saw Seiya was wearing during the flashback fight with Hades in the movie. And Seiya is supposed to wear God Cloth when he met Hades in the final Hades Arc. Remember, the movie is before the official anime-version God Cloth came to be, and before Hades Chapter Elysium.
Hmm... No, it is not.

This is the God Cloth as seen in the flashback...



And this is the one for the after-credit scene...



They are clearly different Cloths. The God Cloth covers the body as much as a Gold Cloth, it has an all-white color scheme (in Overture online), and it has wings. The after-credit Cloth cover as about as much as regular Bronze Cloth, has a blue and white color scheme, and doesn't have any wings.

And even if Elysuim had not been animated at that point, the manga had already existed for about 15 years. So people knew what a God Cloth looked like.


Quote:
Also, how can you be so sure without any doubt that Seiya's memory got wipe out the time when his cloth blown out?
I said that if that has actually any meaning, that would most likely be it instead of Apollo's attack (which couldn't even fully stop the RuySeiKen).


Quote:
The thing is, what attack he uses doesn't matter at that point in the story. All Seiya’s cosmo was burn in that fist of his, that’s what matters. Again, watch how Kouga pummeled Abzu with his bare hands to see how insignificant the technique you use when it comes to battle of pure cosmo.
And Apollo was pooling all of his cosmo to wipe out humanity and he couldn't do anything.


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PS: I watched the old series in its entirety. So I know fully well about Seiya's attacks.
Yet you can't even recognize a God Cloth...
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Old 2014-03-03, 18:20   Link #4092
Ozuma
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@Obelisk Ze Tormentor

Good lord man, you're repeating the know-it-all BS from 50-something pages ago dude. C'mon dude knock it off.
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Old 2014-03-03, 18:23   Link #4093
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
Hmm... No, it is not.

This is the God Cloth as seen in the flashback...

They are clearly different Cloths. The God Cloth covers the body as much as a Gold Cloth, it has an all-white color scheme (in Overture online), and it has wings. The after-credit Cloth cover as about as much as regular Bronze Cloth, has a blue and white color scheme, and doesn't have any wings.

And even if Elysuim had not been animated at that point, the manga had already existed for about 15 years. So people knew what a God Cloth looked like.
Like I said, it's the movie-version God Cloth. People already well aware that anime's design can deviate from the manga, let alone anime movie.

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And Apollo was pooling all of his cosmo to wipe out humanity and he couldn't do anything.
There's no definite answer to that on-screen. For all we know, it could be Apollo's choice to not do anything after impressed by Seiya or maybe for other reasons

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Yet you can't even recognize a God Cloth...
Yes, I can. I merely noted that there are different versions.
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Old 2014-03-03, 18:35   Link #4094
Galaxian
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Like I said, it's the movie-version God Cloth. People already well aware that anime's design can deviate from the manga, let alone anime movie.
The movie itself show the God Cloth, the after credit on cannot be it too, would just be stupid, specially since it offer even less protection that the actual God Cloth.


Quote:
There's no definite answer to that on-screen. For all we know, it could be Apollo's choice to not do anything after impressed by Seiya or maybe for other reasons
But since the official word is that Apollo could not defeat Seiya, then a reasonal person would deduce that is not "blowing it away".

And that's another thing, since when does a enemy "blows away" a Cloth, they always destroyed, but this one just fell apart.
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Old 2014-03-03, 19:23   Link #4095
Miraluka
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Guys let me remind you some things from the original script that was supposed to be in the movie.


Seiya landed a punch on Apollo, that was a miracle, Apollo had to swallow his own words and let Seiya win the bet.

However, he mindwiped all of them.

However, everyone was unaffected and PRETENDED to be affected while they headed to meet since they were separated in order to fight the Olympics.
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Old 2014-03-03, 21:58   Link #4096
nishikinomaki
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Join Date: Oct 2013
You guys Still fight mode Dont want to lose.

Sorry tell you Guys about erased memory officially not true. those said from wikipedia there no explanation from Seiya and saori memory got wipe out. they said just theory

Seiya has been long been coma that why he said in ending he first time being here in place that mean he not notice it when in coma very long time with wheelchairs.

they memory not has been erased said by wikipedia


and you Ozuma you ignore me and hurt my feelings

one thing only know answers is toei they the one make movie go ask them what really happen to seiya and saori.


All isaw comment here about theory even wikipedia and original fans not sure what happen to seiya and saori at the end
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Old 2014-03-03, 22:17   Link #4097
Ozuma
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@ nishikinomaki

Honestly man I am LOW on energy and have my attention divided in a lot areas. Atm, I'm focused and worried about not receiving phone call from girlfriend.
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Old 2014-03-03, 22:19   Link #4098
nishikinomaki
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Originally Posted by Ozuma View Post
@ nishikinomaki

Honestly man I am LOW on energy and have my attention divided in a lot areas. Atm, I'm focused and worried about not receiving phone call from girlfriend.
Sorry to hear that good luck from you and your girlfriend

Wait Aim woman not man why you always forgot that.
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Old 2014-03-03, 22:34   Link #4099
Sorae Habatake
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Aw, but I made an account jsut for this discussion. It's actually pretty valid since the ending is so open and Toei is not helping.

Let me at least present my position giving the facts (sorry for being an ass nishikinomaki btu I think there are a few important points people were forgetting insofar)

What we know about the series
- cosmos is finite, there's a an exhaustive limit basically
- cloths change to fit the form of the cosmos that inhabits them

Looking at the scene, the explosion resulting from the attack didn't blast anyone off the map because it didn't keep going or ricochet, rather it was probably either fragmented and it them both (it wasn't absorbed). It stands to reason then that the two forces were in perfect opposition to one another that is Seiya + Athena = Apollo. So in that encounter, Apollo was just as strong as the two combined.

But wait, cosmos is finite. If you run out, you draw on your macroosm star energy and if that runs out, you're fucked. Even the gods are subjected to this basic universal law.

Seiya's been eating damage the entire movie. Even before that he was expending cosmos to keep himself alive under Hades' influence. Athena has been bleeding to keep the world safe from Artemis and Seiya caught up to her only a few hours before she would actually die. AKA they are both severely weakened.
Plus, Seiya in Elysium, while he attained the power to hurt Hades, couldn't ultimately kill him. Athena dealt the final blow. So he's not quite on par with an Olympian God as of yet. But having his cloth evaporate off his body (something it didn't do even against Hades seems to indicate his cosmos has out stripped the divine blood that altered the cloth)

On the other hand, Athena's deception indicated that she is not as strong as Artemis. Apollo's dismissal of his twin says that Artemis is weaker than he is. Also he's fresh for the fight, bust barely appearing.

Going on the fragmented attack theory, Seiya's and Athena's strength combined, and the collective damage attained by all of them...

I think Seiya's not quite on par with Apollo or Artemis yet. But he definitely holds the potential to be able to destroy them, and eventually, he probably will. He's sustained a shit ton of damage and still manages to (with a boost from Athena) deliver and attack that was equal in force (even if for a single instance) against a full fledged Olympian.

I don't actually believe Apollo is noble enough not to eliminate a threat to his godhood, rather I think he wasted a crippling amount of cosmos on what is essentially a stalemate, and was probably forced to retreat.

Had we gotten a sequel, it likely would have involved ascendance into the heavens where humanity finally breaks free from the influences of the gods (breaks free because at this point, however strong she is, Athena is basically outmatched by a factor of at least 10)
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Old 2014-03-03, 22:45   Link #4100
Ozuma
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@Nishikinomaki

lol

That was a reflexive response. I keep forgetting. Also girlfriend called. Phew, I was worried.
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