Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by zgmf-x19a

They are going to confront each other later when they meet at the Kururugi shrine where everything started (their meeting) and everything will end there

Mm-hmm. After this episode, I'm starting to think that things will end at the Kururugi shrine indeed. Somehow this episode has made me lose the recent optimism I had when it came to Suzaku. Looks like Var was right after all...

[Freya]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Late reply: fuck yes. Psycho and weirdo make a good pair.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

[Var]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Mm-hmm. After this episode, I'm starting to think that things will end at the Kururugi shrine indeed. soemhow this episode has made me lose the recent optimism I had when it came to Suzaku. Looks like Var was right after all...

Why is it that I get mentioned while I'm asleep?

Kallen got refrained. I guess her determination didn't waver at all... hu?

Not quite sure how the refrain bit is going to work but w/e. The only thing that drug does is make you remember your loved one and loved times.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by zgmf-x19a

His troops aren't turning a blind eye some are having serious doubts and I think they are going to tell the other members which is going to cause a stir I wonder if the 1st resolution of the Union of Nations is to declare Zero persona non grata but I highly doubt it.

I believe he's talking about us, the viewers (or more specifically Lelouch's fans), turning a blind eye to the massacre, and justifying Lelouch's actions.

Me, I find both sides wrong. Give me a good reason why Lelouch is justified in massacreing all of them, and give me a good reason why Suzaku is justified in lying to Kallen about Shirley's death and using drugs on her. Having just lost Shirely is no excuse for a massacre, and having lost Euphemia is no excuse for lying to and drugging your friends. They're both in the wrong here.

It's wrong enough to do an "Eye for an Eye" killing in our law system; murdering almost completely unrelated people because you're mad the fake little brother you invited in to your house so you could use him killed your girlfriend is no excuse for killing unrelated people. Having your girlfriend "mind-warped" and killed by your friend is no excuse for turning on your other friends. Period. They're both in the wrong.

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Lelouch commits genocide in a hissy fit cause he got his girlfriend killed by getting her involved in his vendetta (and if he hadn't reacted like such a drama queen back in season 1 she could have gotten over it back then and wouldn't have died) is awesome because he doesn't care he's being an evil bastard.

Suzaku forces someone to give up information against their will to stop in his mind a psychotic killer who will kill anyone in his way sister or friend is bad, even though Lelouch forces people to give up info all the freaking time because Suzaku doesn't embrace his inner jerk.


Double standard much?

Wait a second. Hasn't Lelouch himself admitted he was evil? What people have a problem with is the a person who plays himself or herself off as champions of justice, when they are actually just as evil as those they ridicule.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by LunaticChaos

Lelouch certainly stepped into a new territory of evil in this episode (not that it didn't need to be done). He does get some slack on the how far he's fallen because he is acting out of anger and sorrow (Suzaku got plenty of slack during episode 24-25, hell I liked him more during those two episodes than I had in any episode since 4).

But Suzaku...Suzaku just went and outdid Lelouch in the level of vileness. He doesn't have the sorrow excuse, and you know he's going to feel morally right about doing this. Hell he doesn't have to do it at all, he could arrest Lelouch and check his eye for anything that might hide the Geass and viola, instant proof.

For starter's Lelouch wanted control of the cult. This whole thing was vengeance.

Hmmm murdering children and women who had nothing to do with his girlfriend's death.....

Interrogating someone for information.....

Oh yeah interrogating someone for information is so much more worse than killing little kids and women.

They're both in the wrong.

Which is the point really.

Wait a second. Hasn't Lelouch himself admitted he was evil? What people have a problem with is the a person who plays himself or herself off as champions of justice, when they are actually just as evil as those they ridicule.

And where has Suzaku played himself as a champion of justice?

For cripes sakes they call him the White Reaper.

[Graus]

Originally Posted by LunaticChaos

He doesn't have the sorrow excuse, and you know he's going to feel morally right about doing this. Hell he doesn't have to do it at all, he could arrest Lelouch and check his eye for anything that might hide the Geass and viola, instant proof.

Sadly that would be too easy :P Might as well throw some drama in there

[zgmf-x19a]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Oh please you guys are sugercoating Lelouch's actions.

And where has Suzaku sugercoated his actions? He's like Lelouch now, he doesn't give a damn. If he needs to do it he'll do it, he doesn't care about anyone else understanding his actions.



Greater evil? You mind elaborating what the cult's been up to this whole point?

So far we know that VV is working with Charles' to kill god because he hates those who pit people against other people. From a perspective, I hardly call that evil.

That and they follow whoever is the leader. Lelouch needs them to take on his father but he's let vengenance take over him just like how Suzaku had it when he lost Euphie.



Yeah that kinda happens when you got guys coming down at you with big machine guns and robots.

It's called self-defense.

Suzaku = hypocrite

I don't know maybe experimenting on children isn't considered evil for you but in my book it is
Messing Rollo's life up by making him a killer
Depends on your point of view Bartley saw that their so called 'good plan' is going to end up with destroying everything so ....
Don't forget that Lelouch is human he isn't a machine and I don't think he's reached Schneizel's coldness yet.

[morbosfist]

Interrogating someone is a bit different than injecting them with illegal hallucinogens that, given what we've seen, aren't even likely to hit the right memory.

[Nanaya]

I'M TIRED OF THIS.

REMEMBER, Suzaku THINKS Lelouch killed Shirley to keep the Geass a secret. Why would he think this way?

Remember what happened to Euphie?

To Suzaku, Lelouch HAS BECOME THE VERY DEFINITION OF EVIL to him. And now, he'll use Lelouch's mantra of "Ends justifies the Means" to bring about an ironic sense of justice to the man who in his mind KILLED the SAZ Japanese, Euphemia and NOW Shirley.

[Blue_Mercy]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I believe he's talking about us, the viewers (or more specifically Lelouch's fans), turning a blind eye to the massacre, and justifying Lelouch's actions.

Me, I find both sides wrong. Give me a good reason why Lelouch is justified in massacreing them, and give me a good reason why Suzaku is justified in lying to Kallen about Shirley's death and using drugs on her. Having just lost Shirely is no excuse for a massacre, and having lost Euphemia is no excuse for lying to and drugging your friends. They're both in the wrong here.

It's wrong enough to do an "Eye for an Eye" killing in our law system; murdering almost completely unrelated people because you're mad the fake little brother you invited in to your house so you could use him killed your girlfriend is no excuse for killing unrelated people. Having your girlfriend "mind-warped" and killed by your friend is no excuse for turning on your other friends. Period. They're both in the wrong.

Quoted for truth. The problem is only one of them is calling them self evil/wrong.

[Daniani]

Originally Posted by Blue_Mercy

Wait a second. Hasn't Lelouch himself admitted he was evil? What people have a problem with is the a person who plays himself or herself off as champions of justice, when they are actually just as evil as those they ridicule.

Suzaku admitted his evil side by sending Lelouch to the emperor after euphie's death. There is no difference.

Lelouch killed Clovis too, who has nothing to do with his mother's death. Yeah, that's so good

[-KarumA-]

Spoiler for caps:

next turn:

[Var]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Interrogating someone is a bit different than injecting them with illegal hallucinogens that, given what we've seen, aren't even likely to hit the right memory.

Yes, I'm not sure if Suzaku knows what the drug does... unless he assumes that Kallen's memories of Zero and Lelouch are her most important.

[TheRainbowConnection]

Are we really gonna go into who's "more evil"/"more justified" again? Haven't we had these same arguments bandied around for the past two years? Effing Christ... >_>

Look, let's just all agree that both Suzaku and Lelouch were douchebags this episode. There's no "but he started it first!" because if you can't tell already, THEIR ACTIONS ARE SO DAMN INTERTWINED that it's practically impossible to point fingers.

Goddamn, this argument gets old quickly...

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by zgmf-x19a

Suzaku = hypocrite

Uh yeah you mind elaborating?

He wants to change the world from within. So far his actions have followed that with him running things in Britannia. He has more power than he had before and everyone has to follow him.

On his side, Zero is a threat to his objective.

Simple as that. R1 maybe but defintely not R2.

I don't know maybe experimenting on children isn't considered evil for you but in my book it is

Sorry but no matter how many times you sugercoat it it's never justified to murder women and children.

Depends on your point of view Bartley saw that their so called 'good plan' is going to end up with destroying everything so ....

Trying to kill gods tends to do that you know.

Interrogating someone is a bit different than injecting them with illegal hallucinogens that, given what we've seen, aren't even likely to hit the right memory.

Interrogation-> extracting information which is what Suzaku is trying to do so the hallucinogen falls under the same category (Just like how the sentinels used it on Morpheus in The Matrix or truth serums)

Look, let's just all agree that both Suzaku and Lelouch were douchebags this episode. There's no "but he started it first!" because if you can't tell already, THEIR ACTIONS ARE SO DAMN INTERTWINED that it's practically impossible to point fingers.

At least some people see the obvious.

[Nanaya]

Originally Posted by Daniani

Suzaku admitted his evil side by sending Lelouch to the emperor after euphie's death. There is no difference.

Lelouch killed Clovis too, who has nothing to do with his mother's death. Yeah, that's so good

Actually, Suzaku has even admitted being a sinner. He's accepted he's a bad man already. He's no champion of justice. He just wants to fulfill Euphemia's dream no matter what.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Var

Why is it that I get mentioned while I'm asleep?

No idea...

Originally Posted by Var

Kallen got refrained. I guess her determination didn't waver at all... hu?

I suppose not (and I doubt she'll be feeling very friendly towards Suzaku or Britannia in general after what he did), though his words abut Lelouch will probably be bugging her and she'll most likely confront Lelouch about it at some point...

Originally Posted by Var

Not quite sure how the refrain bit is going to work but w/e. The only thing that drug does is make you remember your loved one and loved times.

It's a drug that makes you remember better/good times indeed. But that could work too, as she has been shown as rather happy in the OotBK.

[zgmf-x19a]

Originally Posted by Var

Why is it that I get mentioned while I'm asleep?

Kallen got refrained. I guess her determination didn't waver at all... hu?

Not quite sure how the refrain bit is going to work but w/e. The only thing that drug does is make you remember your loved one and loved times.

Maybe taking her back to a time where she is happy when they successfully evaded Britannia with a million Zeros where they were settling on that island

[Freya]

Dude that guy next to V.V. is Charles?! Dammmm!! Lol.