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Old 2014-03-25, 18:43   Link #2681
Ginko08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starshipw View Post
Umi no Misaki - All three girls make progress in a natural way. The rivalry is stated up front and even rules are set down for equal time with the MC. The first girl is the favorite, but not by so much as to discourage fans of the others. There are mysteries so that the reader cannot be sure if it is a romcom or a tragedy. Even when the obligatory filler idol rival is introduced it moves both the plot and relationships along. The only weak spot is that after the climax it ends rather abruptly without completely answering all the leftover questions.
Hmm, this one sounds rather interesting, thanks for mentioning it. Might check it out sometime.
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Old 2014-03-25, 18:59   Link #2682
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Originally Posted by Ginko08 View Post
The development of the girls in SnO was pretty weak at first, but even then they growed from interacting with Tomik, in the sense that they learned the meaning of a normal and happy life, while falling in love with him, they outgrew some of their old Angeloid habits. Especially in the end then did the girls grow, and try to sacrifice themselves in order to save the world. Given, it is cliché , but the execution was heartwarming, especially the scene where Astraea interacted with Chaos in order to not let her be alone, she basically wanted to share everyhing she had learned from Tomoki with her.
That's where we differ then. I see TWGOK as one of the best harem series, as the MC is actually refreshing, you may call him a nerd or whatever, but you can' deny the fact that he is vastly different to normal harem leads.
Yes, the relationship between Keima and a girl is mostly nullified after the corresponding capture, not always though. However, that is the entire point of it, Keima doesn't see any point in building himself a harem, all he wants is to stop the madness going on and return to his gaming.
I don't see how the captures are 'cliché after cliché ', the girls don't fall in love with Keima out of the blue, he always has a plan prepared for each girl, and captures her by selecting the best route. As to the girls themselves, they do develop quite nicely, in a short amount of time.
Shiori, who gained confidence to speak, Kanon, who got her motivation back, Chihiro, a seemingly normal girl which turned out to have more depth to her than expected, Kusonoki who accepted her girly side, her reunion with her sister etc.
All of those developments were caused by Keima, but don't have anything to do with their love relationships themselves, they remain intact even after the captures.
So no, TWGOK is far less cliché than Nisekoi, and one of the better harems out there. I see it as a slightly better version of DaL, which is in many regards similar to it.
Regarding the characters, yes, I was adding to your point, I mostly share your opinion about them. Problem with Haru is, she doesn't even have a point in the story. The others have at least an excuse for being there.
To Love Ru darkness at least has a proper main girl, Momo trying to fulfill the harem plan is far more enjoyable than most of the chapters of Nisekoi. Not saying TLR is good, imo it is average.
Its not the capture's themselves that are cliché its the girls. Each of the girls represents a very boring cliché with a twist.
Umi no Misaki is one of the rare proper harems there are the ending is absolutely pitiful but its decent otherwise
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Old 2014-03-25, 21:03   Link #2683
SkoolRumble4Ya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginko08 View Post
Sora no Otoshimono doesn't have 100 chapters, but it achieved something by having plot and developed relationships despite being a harem.
The best example would be TWGOK, which has well ver 260 chapters and is still good, at both romance and plot.
Or the novel High School DxD, or Oda Nobuna no Yabou, hell, To Love Ru had more meaningful chapters than this.
And if you claim those invalid because supernatural, then I can tell you one more romcom novel: Yahari Ore no Seishun, a series in which character interactions are everything. And they are amazing, to say the least.
No, they wouldn't end after 10 chapters, as long as developments stay subtle or the author can think of a good plotline, it can easily go on for more than 100 chapters.
Props for you assuming that I don't like harem, I'm not a lover of them, but I can like them as well, as long as they at least try to achieve something.
And that is an excuse for the lack of plot? Really now? I am aware that he needs his money, but if all he delivers are filler chapters, then I have every right to bash him for it. He could also earn his money while writing a good story, but he seemingly chose the easy way, where he doesn't actually put effort into his work.
Soo, the characters in Nisekoi are not archetypes? Lol.
I didn't notice much of the 'developments', to me they seem as static as always, but oh well.
Now, if you disagree with anything I said, good for you. I'm not saying everyone should hate Nisekoi, all I did was explain why I myself don't like Nisekoi, and why I am still reading it despite that. I won't stop you from liking the plot and the characters. I just don't get why the most frequent answer to criticism ends up being "don't like, don't read", a braindead internet slang.



At least Shuu was sorta likeable at first, by now his attitude is bothering me...
As to the other characters, Marika must be one of the only characters I still somewhat appreciate, Tsugumi became shitty as well after ending up in Raku's harem, and the other three never had anything relevant to contribute to begin with. I still don't know why Haru even exists.
All of those manga you mention have a shitload of chapters that has nothing to do with plot. Nothing is wrong with that as I do enjoy what you listed. There are no such things as filler chapters in a slice of life harem manga. You're pretty much suppose to enjoy the character interactions, comedy scenes, and then every now and then they throw in some plot. That's how it is in these type of manga.

My policy is if I don't care about the story, characters and if it's not even 1% interesting. I will drop it right way. You are wasting your time reading something you hate and you could of pick something up that is worth your time. Oh well it's your time. Enjoy reading something you don't like.
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Old 2014-03-25, 21:57   Link #2684
ImperialFlameGod8190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya View Post
All of those manga you mention have a shitload of chapters that has nothing to do with plot. Nothing is wrong with that as I do enjoy what you listed. There are no such things as filler chapters in a slice of life harem manga. You're pretty much suppose to enjoy the character interactions, comedy scenes, and then every now and then they throw in some plot. That's how it is in these type of manga.

My policy is if I don't care about the story, characters and if it's not even 1% interesting. I will drop it right way. You are wasting your time reading something you hate and you could of pick something up that is worth your time. Oh well it's your time. Enjoy reading something you don't like.
ur missing something bud we like nisekoi it just has so many ridiculous flaws that its annoying
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Old 2014-03-25, 22:18   Link #2685
larethian
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^ agree. I like Nisekoi, and expecting it to drag out over the entire 3 years of high school, but some of the developments are just !@#$^$**#^!@! Though there are good moments too.
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Old 2014-03-26, 08:22   Link #2686
Ginko08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
Its not the capture's themselves that are cliché its the girls. Each of the girls represents a very boring cliché with a twist.
Umi no Misaki is one of the rare proper harems there are the ending is absolutely pitiful but its decent otherwise
However, you did not deny it when I said that they do actually permanently change after their arcs, which is one of the charms of the series. They outgrow the tropes they are based on and develop into well-written characters.
And besides, you agree with me that the captures themselves are unique, and already that alone makes the series more original than Nisekoi, apart from developing its characters.
Are you still reading the series or did you drop it? One thing I see as a flaw is a slight feeling of repetitiveness at times, although the tone of the series has changed quite a bit by now. Otherwise however it is a mostly a very solid series. There are some characters that are simply stupid, but they are in the minority.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya View Post
All of those manga you mention have a shitload of chapters that has nothing to do with plot. Nothing is wrong with that as I do enjoy what you listed. There are no such things as filler chapters in a slice of life harem manga. You're pretty much suppose to enjoy the character interactions, comedy scenes, and then every now and then they throw in some plot. That's how it is in these type of manga.

My policy is if I don't care about the story, characters and if it's not even 1% interesting. I will drop it right way. You are wasting your time reading something you hate and you could of pick something up that is worth your time. Oh well it's your time. Enjoy reading something you don't like.
Sora no Otoshimono did do a lot of bullshit at times, but it never completely lost its path, like Nisekoi is doing right now.
TWGOK only had few filler chapters, almost every chapter progresses a conquest or contributes to the story in any other way, occasionally there are some sort of break-chapters, which talk about Keima's gaming, or other things related to the characters.
HSDxD chapters and volumes mostly focus on the plot itself, or on developing Issei's relationship with the girls. There are a lot of Ecchi scenes as well, but those have to be in there, otherwise it wouldn't be an ecchi series. And no, romcoms are not supposed to have chapters where they do absolutely nothing, the point in a romcom is to constantly develop the characters ad their interactions with each other.
Oda Nobuna no Yabou does have its pointless moments at times, I won't deny that, but it makes up for it with a well-thought out plot and battles.
To love Ru is basically only made up of fillers, I only mentioned it because at least they aren't absolutely terrible fillers.
Regarding the last one, Yahari ore is without a doubt one of the best romcoms out there. It doesn't delve into pointless matters, but instead always progresses the characters interactions in an incredibly subtle and realistic way, sometimes the characters grow closer, sometimes more apart, but they never are static. The plot is basically how the relationship between the main girl and the main male evolves, and it never fails at delivering that.
If Nisekoi were to develop its characters with each chapter, then those chapters wouldn't be fillers, they would be genuine attempts at progressing something, fillers are chapters where nothing happens, a complete waste of time.
I already explained why I am still reading this, because I feel that it could be so much more, if only the author would stop being so greedy. I still hope that one day this series will become good again.
Also, I already mentioned that I'll never drop anything. It is just something I don't like doing, now that I've started it I might as well finish it. Like that, I even managed to finish terrible shows like IS or SAO. I'm not wasting that much time with Nisekoi, 5 minutes per week are expendable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
ur missing something bud we like nisekoi it just has so many ridiculous flaws that its annoying
He was probably refering to me. Except for some chapters I stopped liking Nisekoi a while ago, but I still hope for some improvements.
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Old 2014-03-26, 08:33   Link #2687
Kakurin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larethian View Post
^ agree. I like Nisekoi, and expecting it to drag out over the entire 3 years of high school, but some of the developments are just !@#$^$**#^!@! Though there are good moments too.
The frustrating thing I experience with the manga is that I liked the developments and pacing of the first 50 something chapters. Since the Romeo and Juliet part, or the chapters with Chitoge's mother at the latest, it just drags out so much with little progress. Some of the filler chapters are quite nicely done, but in the sum they tend to annoy me, which is unfortunate.
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Old 2014-03-26, 08:37   Link #2688
Ginko08
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Originally Posted by SigUp View Post
The frustrating thing I experience with the manga is that I liked the developments and pacing of the first 50 something chapters. Since the Romeo and Juliet part, or the chapters with Chitoge's mother at the latest, it just drags out so much with little progress. Some of the filler chapters are quite nicely done, but in the sum they tend to annoy me, which is unfortunate.
Then you are exactly the same as me, it just stopped progressing anything after the christmas arc.
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Old 2014-03-27, 02:59   Link #2689
II Maestro
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Spoiler for Chapter 116 raw:
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Last edited by II Maestro; 2014-03-27 at 03:54.
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Old 2014-03-27, 03:27   Link #2690
Kakurin
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Originally Posted by Ginko08 View Post
Then you are exactly the same as me, it just stopped progressing anything after the christmas arc.
Right, it's similar, though I still go through every chapter. Well, if it's boring then I rush through it in one to two minutes or so. It would be one thing if Nisekoi's been mostly filler stuff from the get-go. But that it had development and pacing during the first 60 chapters makes the current stuff look just bad in my eyes. It's like popularity issues drove the author off course and he resorts to filler stuff just to make it longer.
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Old 2014-03-27, 04:36   Link #2691
ultimate_noob
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Iron Knight just got cancelled. I don't mean to sound like a negative nancy but Nisekoi is just above Iron Knight in the JUMP manga rankings the past few months...and it ranked on the lower 3 this week as well.
I think it might get cancelled after 10-39 chapters or so if we ignore the manga and anime sales boosts.

If it still ranks on the bottom top5 next week....oh boy...not good.
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Old 2014-03-27, 10:25   Link #2692
Kanon
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They're not going to cancel a manga that sells more than 250k per volume. Until sales start dropping, Nisekoi is totally safe. Romcoms aren't expected to rank very high in the first place anyway.
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Old 2014-03-28, 16:57   Link #2693
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Maestro View Post
Spoiler for Chapter 116 raw:
IMO chitoge inner monologue in the last page makes her very cute IMO.
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Old 2014-03-28, 18:14   Link #2694
Death Usagi
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Chitoge can't compare to Marika when it comes to being like a housewife~~ >:3
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Old 2014-03-28, 19:01   Link #2695
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Death Usagi View Post
Chitoge can't compare to Marika when it comes to being like a housewife~~ >:3
But since Rakku can already cook so there would be duplicity of functions, meanwhile Chitoge can beat the crap out of any doroubo neko with her own hands >_<

p.s. IMO the manga's plot is moving slowly because it has become popular, if sales drop the plot will move forward at a higher speed, if the anime sells like pancakes we might see a complete reset in relations (amnesia? time trip? evil twin brother?)
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Old 2014-03-28, 19:43   Link #2696
Chosen_Hero
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
But since Rakku can already cook so there would be duplicity of functions, meanwhile Chitoge can beat the crap out of any doroubo neko with her own hands >_<

p.s. IMO the manga's plot is moving slowly because it has become popular, if sales drop the plot will move forward at a higher speed, if the anime sells like pancakes we might see a complete reset in relations (amnesia? time trip? evil twin brother?)
Amnesia already happened.
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Old 2014-03-29, 07:49   Link #2697
ReinZwei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimate_noob View Post
Iron Knight just got cancelled. I don't mean to sound like a negative nancy but Nisekoi is just above Iron Knight in the JUMP manga rankings the past few months...and it ranked on the lower 3 this week as well.
I think it might get cancelled after 10-39 chapters or so if we ignore the manga and anime sales boosts.

If it still ranks on the bottom top5 next week....oh boy...not good.
From the past month I think it's still safe to say that Nisekoi's place was still in the mid tier considering the lowest for it was 7 not until this week which placed it at 13, I hope that it will help to develop the main storyline a bit to pick up it's pace.
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Old 2014-03-29, 07:58   Link #2698
LeaD36
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you can be last place in the questionnaire if you sell the rest of your merchandise in the millions.
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Old 2014-03-29, 09:26   Link #2699
ImperialFlameGod8190
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The main problem with nisekoi is that it has virtually zero progress in the true storyline in the last 20 or so chapters its just small little things that have taken the story back quite a fair bit we need a plot twist soon and a big one
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Old 2014-03-29, 12:09   Link #2700
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190 View Post
... we need a plot twist soon and a big one
Seems to me lately mangakas are in some kind of competition to see who is the biggest troll, so watch out what you wish for, we might to see a chapter where we learn Rakku is a girl or something just as trollish
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