2007-09-07, 23:24 | Link #121 |
Raki/Claire fan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern California
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It seems to me that we've kinda strayed from what the Claymores are actually doing out there and what the Yoma are doing... in fact my sleep deprivation might be blurring my perception a bit, but this has turned into a discussion of who's right and who's wrong.
Whether Priscilla was conscious of killing Teresa is up to debate. Her body was in such a flux that it's possible that her yoma half just...reacted. After that, it's nature - an Awakened feeds on people, therefore it's natural for her to kill and feast on humans. That doesn't make it any more right or wrong, it's just what they do. Thus Claymores can't find Priscilla guilty or "deserving" of anything, since she doesn't seem conscious of her actions. However, they can go to war against her. Why? Because even though Priscilla may be doing something completely natural in the Claymore world, it's at a detriment to humanity. And I think we all know that humans will fight tooth and nail to stay alive. Thus, it's not a battle of justice. It's just force of will. Okay, enough of the delirious talk. Time for bed. *Collapses onto the slab of granite.* Oy... |
2007-09-08, 00:04 | Link #122 | ||||||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
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Your behaviour resembles me of a joke: Priscilla says to Isley: If you guess how many guts I have in the basket, I will give you all five kilograms/eleven pounds of it. Yeah I'm a mind reader Quote:
If not forgiveness then revenge remains and a fight Clare vs Priscilla. Quote:
to talk openely about organization's secrets she wouldn't live too long (org has quite good intelligence service, they know what's going on well). Take to account that there were no media so she would have to expose these things to villages one by one + hire some of the villageres to spread the rumours. Now she's powerful enough to escape organization but doesn't have proofs unless she demonstrated awakening process . Quote:
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Clarice was loyal, why didn't You bring her as Your argument ? She was saved by these Ghosts, nonetheless she reported it to the organization. The thing is all depends on who is strongminded and who's just stupid or easily manipulated. 72 chapter is proof of that they don't have "indoctrination program". Organization teaches them only "code of honour", claymores are working for organization only because organization is helping people and not because they have brains washed. Quote:
She was blinded by rage, she didn't listen to anyone the moment Teresa spared her life, it was her own actions not youma's Last edited by Gooral; 2007-09-08 at 00:23. Reason: Yeah I'm a mind reader |
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2007-09-08, 01:40 | Link #123 |
Raki/Claire fan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern California
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Arguing aside, I just thought of something:
If Isley is bent on using Priscilla as a pawn, why didn't he send her to fight Leucritia for the lands of the south instead of risking himself? One might say he was leaving her as an ace-in-the-hole, but... :-S |
2007-09-08, 02:07 | Link #124 |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Interesting chapter. Always awesome to see Isley in his awakened form -- I'm still of the opinion that he is by far the coolest looking Awakened Being. The extra scene reminds me why I like this series.
As for the anime, I've given up on it after the debacle that was episode 22. I can't even care less how the anime ends anymore. It's already a mess anyway. One little detail I found interesting is Rigald's connection to Isley. I had planned a fanfic entirely around the first generation of male hybrids, building on the inherent animosity I detected between the two men. I never got around to completing the fanfic unfortunately, but it's still swoshing around in my imagination somewhere. |
2007-09-08, 03:04 | Link #125 | ||||||||||||||
Miria's #1 Disciple
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Let the quote wars BEGIN!!!
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I could just as easily say Hamstadini agrees with me. (Great posts by the way Hamstadini.) Quote:
Teresa was no fool, she knew Priscilla was the real deal. Quote:
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Miria's chapter was my favorite, and I wont even try to argue that is the pure-fanboyism in me Quote:
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Yoma are also supposivly solitary hunters normally, it is likely that the introduction of the Claymores is what started them on their hunting packs, so they could have a chance against the Claymores. Notice even a strong Yoma like the one in Rabona ran away when a group of well armed and armored humans approached. Quote:
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She hated Yoma more then anyone, and was so zealous about protecting humans that she blindly attacked Teresa off of the belief that Teresa was a murderer. I honestly think she did want to die at that moment, rather then become a Yoma, but her already weak willpower crumbled to her Yoma half, and everyone present paid the price. RAWR let the eternal debates continue!!! /falls unconcious
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2007-09-08, 03:20 | Link #126 |
Raki/Claire fan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern California
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Flattery will get you everywhere, Fenrir.
For myself, I'm still stuck on this idea that her body acted without the mind's consent - yoma-integrated bodies have a way of acting on their own, as we saw in the cathedral. And as I posted in... another medium... would it be right to punish her for sins she can't remember? Oy... here we go with the right and wrong debate again... |
2007-09-08, 03:46 | Link #127 | ||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
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It was clearly stated in the manga. Not eternal because I don't see big "openings" to counterattack and propably it will be my last response to what we started yesterday (8:58 GMT+2). I don't think I'll be able to think of anything, even stupid, that has relevance to our posts . |
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2007-09-08, 12:45 | Link #129 | |||||||
Miria's #1 Disciple
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Possibly, but I was under the impression (feel free to disagree) that Priscilla's speed had reached the point that Teresa could not even see the strike, letting her guard down or not. Quote:
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The point? She didn't want to, she worked for the Organization, and followed their orders, sarcasm or not, she followed the orders, and remained loyal until she met Clare. You can make ironic statements and be sarcastic all you want, but if someone says "jump" and you do, then your not any less under their thumb. Quote:
These are two very different mentalities, one who was not thinking clearly because of anger, and the other utterly terrified of her loss of control and inevitable transformation into a monster. Mind set changes with circumstance. So you have your opinion and I have mine. Quote:
I ment "eternal" because I knew that the arguement cant be conclusivly ended without the Mangaka's intervention, because only the mangaka knows where the story is going. Bah, stealing all my fun away like that. >.< Ah well it was fun while it lasted
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2007-09-08, 22:42 | Link #130 | |
Shapeshifter Imperius
Join Date: Aug 2007
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In any case I thought this scene was good, it amused me that priscilla could rip out two peoples guts without changing any of her body. I would have like it better if they had shown rigald getting owned by priscilla though, that bad kitty certinly deserved a "time-out". |
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2007-09-09, 00:19 | Link #131 |
Awe of She
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando
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Priscilla: *sleepy-eye* Easley~...
Easley: Yes Priscilla? Priscilla: Where's my stuffed kitty teddybear...? Easley: ... probably hiding Priscilla: *blinks* ... *trudges off* -------------------- Rigald: *on the roof* She's a demon... 0.0 A pure demon...Braiding ribbons into my mane! Unforgiveable!!! Priscilla: *Awakened form* Hello Kitty. So this is where you were...I was getting tired of looking for you... Rigald: Piscilla: It's time for sleep, kitty. *eyes glow* NOW *grabs him and trudges back to her room despite his digging his claws into the walls and floors, trying to get away*
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2007-09-09, 16:41 | Link #134 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
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2007-09-09, 17:54 | Link #135 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta, Georgia
Age: 39
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Okay, I don't think I've commented on Priscilla's killing of Teresa before, but with the massive quotes above I felt a bit obliged to at least voice my opinion. Note that this is specifically my opinion since there is nothing that conclusively explains the circumstances.
Yes, I believe Priscilla wanted Teresa dead. She did specifically express this several times, even after Teresa spared her life. Priscilla did kill Teresa, no matter the circumstances. Thus, she had both the intent to kill Teresa and carried out this desire. However, I do not believe it was her full intent to deceive Teresa by requesting she cut off her head. Notice how the second Priscilla passes her limits, she stops making any attempts to attack Teresa. Priscilla abhorred Yomas and I'm confident the realization that she was irreversibly becoming one was a greater concern for Priscilla than her desire to killing Teresa. This did create a problem though, in that Priscilla had two conflicting desires. She could let Teresa kill her and spare herself from becoming a yoma, but Teresa would go "unpunished" in Priscilla's mind. Considering Priscilla's already unstable consciousness, as demonstrated by freezing in fear of Teresa, brashly going after Teresa in anger, her incoherent ramblings about Papa, and the loss of control of her yoki, I find it very unlikely that she was lucid enough to concentrate on just one of her desires, much less resist the transformation of her mind to that of a yoma after passing her limits. I mean, during the fighting she demands Teresa give back Papa, even though it was Priscilla herself that killed him. That is clearly not the workings of a coherent mind. Thus, it is my opinion that even though Priscilla wanted Teresa dead, as Priscilla was turning into a yoma it was not thoughts of killing Teresa that solely occupied her mind. Rather, I believe her mind was in a flux with the desire to avoid becoming a yoma, the desire to killed Teresa, and possibly even grief over her Papa. Her mind was slipping into that of a yoma and I believe it was more of a survival instinct that drove her to attack Teresa at the last moment, though the desire to kill Teresa probably aided in the motivation. This "survival" instinct is present in Priscilla as an AB as well; she only attacked and killed Irena and the others after they attacked her. The same goes with Isley as we've just seen in ES3. It is not unreasonable to believe based on this that survival was a major motivation at the time of her Awakening. Also, consider Priscilla's rediculously fast regeneration, a trait of defensive Claymores; wasn't it stated that defensive types were generally concerned more with personal survival than vengeance? To summarize, I believe it was both Priscilla's survival instinct and her desire to kill Teresa that caused her to attack at the last moment instead of letting her head get chopped off, but I believe survival was a larger factor. I do not believe Priscilla intentionally set it up so that she could catch Teresa offguard but believe that Priscilla genuinely didn't want to become a yoma and at least to some degree did want Teresa to kill her. However, I believe Priscilla had a moment of weakness and let her desire to survive and her desire to kill Teresa take over. |
2007-09-10, 10:54 | Link #136 | |
Miria's #1 Disciple
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Very well layed out, I dont think I have anything else to add but this, well done
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2007-09-10, 11:12 | Link #137 |
There there, Maggie-chan
Join Date: Sep 2007
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I think that Priscilla knew what she was doing when she loped her head off, it was a calculated move not some sort of insane monstrous reaction to the final swing of teresa sword. I think she had it in her head (ill admit she wasn't completely straight in the head) that teresa killed her family or whatever and wanted nothing but her death. Even if it meant awakening...so she found a trick to do it. Love the irony after her refusal to sneak behind her back.
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2007-09-10, 12:41 | Link #138 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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It seems that people divide into two groups: those who think that when someone wants to kill you he won't change his mind in 5 minutes no matter the circumstances and those who think that it is possible under certain factors. Well, I can understand uncertainty when someone is referring to Priscilla's behaviour, but the fact is she wanted Teresa dead not only in her Youma form but also as a Claymore.
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Her death was super stupid, someone who trained for years, fought countless battles and killed infinite number of enemies became in few days a sucker. Yeah, right. Teresa's death was inevitable, she was just too powerful to be left alive. Without this incident there wouldn't be great story so Yagi-sensei turned console on, wrote "Teresa goddes mode off" and she was killed. As I see it our "camp" leads :P. |
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2007-09-10, 14:42 | Link #139 | ||||
Miria's #1 Disciple
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I wont deny Priscilla wanted her dead, but I do disagree that she would prioratize killing Teresa over retaining her humanity. Quote:
Teresa's god-mode may have been turned off, as you say, but it is undeniable that the speed at which Priscilla attacked must have been incrediable, because no one, not even Teresa, saw it. Teresa could not even see Priscilla's swing, in the moment before Priscilla went over her limit Teresa had lost complete sight of her and had to be warned by Irene in order to react in time. So carelessness was part of the equation, but it was not the only thing in the equation. Quote:
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2007-09-10, 14:55 | Link #140 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 38
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Ok, now we have proofs. Check this out http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/...13660465566761
Teresa was the strongest Claymore ever. Quote:
Last edited by Gooral; 2007-09-10 at 15:05. Reason: she always attacked in a straight-foward manner - false |
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