Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - Manga discussion

[ImperialKnight]

Something doesn't add up.

The warning was that if they were interfered the Fritz king would retaliate with the Colossal titans.

Given that it was pretty obvious who attacked them why didn't the king retaliate? If there were only a few select Titans (9) then reports of the armored titan and what not would've been the evidence the King needed to see that Mare was going after them.

The last question is about BRA. It would seem that they are the selected young Elodians that Mare decided to send to the walled city in order to destroy them. However given the fact that they consider Zeke their leader, they are probably also secretly part of the resistance.

You sure about that? It seems like Zeke follows the Mare blindly given that he gave his parents up at the age of seven I mean how messed up is that?

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

It seems like Zeke follows the Mare blindly given that he gave his parents up at the age of seven I mean how messed up is that?

Hmm what are you referring to exactly? I'm not quite sure what was the fate of Zeke's mother but as for Grisha they might have known that he wasn't in town during their first assault. Alternatively it might as well be that they consider Grisha a traitor since it seems he decided to live peacefully inside the walls (and Zeke would have an additional reason to consider him a traitor since he abandoned his mother to marry another woman).


Anyway the reason I think they are with the resistance is because we have seen that the resistance's objective is to take the coordinate back to the mainland and use it to wage war on Mare. Meanwhile Mare's objective is simply to conquer the island where the Elodian refugees are.

BRA's objective is quite clearly to get the coordinate and go back to their country as soon as they get it. So their objective fits perfectly with the resistance's objective but not quite with Mare's objective.

[Honoakari]

I'm pretty sure エルディア is supposed to be read as Eldia. And Google-chan agrees.

Anyway. Does the Eldian resistance even exist anymore? Weren't they wiped out by Zeke's betrayal?

I'd say Mare's objective includes obtaining the Coordinate as well. I mean, such a powerful ability would definitely benefit Mare's rulers...

Ymir aside, it's very likely that the enemy shifters are Mare people. With Zeke being an exception, having become trustworthy enough in the eyes of Mare because of his betrayal, even though he is an Eldian. As for Annie, well, she's Zeke's daughter...

It would be interesting if it turned out that Zeke intends to betray Mare once he obtains the Coordinate. But have there been any hints of this so far?

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Honoakari

Anyway. Does the Eldian resistance even exist anymore? Weren't they wiped out by Zeke's betrayal?
r?

I doubt Zeke was able to point out every single member of the resistance. He most likely wouldn't know that many considering his age. I'm pretty sure that the only ones Zeke was able to point out were his parents and a few close others which would hurt the resistance, but not outright destroy them. The resistance might be crippled, but I'm sure that they are still around.

[The Small One]

Interessting new chapter, though IMHO it opens up a whole lot of new questions:

So the Eldian Empire ruled the world for about 1700 years. So how exactly were the Mare able to topple them and bring them into a position to retreat to a departed island (which looks like Madagascar on a mirror-inverted world map).

And if the Eldian all posess the titan's power, how could they even keep them in their ghetto? Didn't they fear for them to transform and lay havoc on anything? What if Grisha or Fay simply transformed and ran away?

But another much more interessting thing: So basically all the people inside of the walls are actually Eldian and therefore Titans, while the real humans are living in the outside world? I wonder what kind of political consequences this knowledge will bring.

But since the people inside the walls (except of the royal family) have no knowledge of the political situation of the outside world; why didn't Mare just attack with their advanced technology, instead of sending Zeke with a titan army.

And then there is the question about the 9 special titans which were mentioned in this chapter.
It's obvious, that the coordinate (the power to command all titans) is one of them. I guess the armored and the colossol titan are also part of it, as well as Zeke's monkey titan, which still leaves five unknown powers.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by The Small One

And then there is the question about the 9 special titans which were mentioned in this chapter.
It's obvious, that the coordinate (the power to command all titans) is one of them. I guess the armored and the colossol titan are also part of it, as well as Zeke's monkey titan, which still leaves five unknown powers.

Not exactly.

1. Coordinate Power (Eren)
2. Female Titan (Annie)
3. Armoured Titan (Reiner)
4. Colossal Titan (Bertolt/Armin)
5. Ymir Titan (Ymir)
6. Beast Titan (Zeke)
7. Quadruped Titan (???)
8. ???
9. ???

It all depends on what they mean by titan powers. Are titan powers just the ability to turn into titans at will or some unique powers like the coordinate that are special among the those that can shapeshift? I'm assuming that its the former. Or perhaps each of the nine have a unique power.

One thing I took notice of was that Marley had 7 of the powers while Fritz/Reiss had 2 of them. That means there's one Marley-held titan unaccounted for; but more importantly there's one Eldian held titan power unaccounted for. Where could that one be?

One other twisted thought I had was what if the titan that ate Eren's mum at the beginning was Dina Fritz. That would be tragic, wouldn't it?

[kitten320]

The plot thickens... for now it's quiet confusing on what is happening. One thing for sure, MPs in both cities are ass holes who deserve death.

Hopefully future chapters will explain more.

Looks like Moe-Kyuntitan and many others we were introduced to, are original members of resistance. So technically higher ups made comrades kill each other.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by The Small One

And if the Eldian all posess the titan's power, how could they even keep them in their ghetto? Didn't they fear for them to transform and lay havoc on anything? What if Grisha or Fay simply transformed and ran away?

They are Eldian exactly like the ones who live inside the walled city and the people inside the walled cities do not normally turn into titans. So I think it's pretty safe to assume that none of the people in the ghetto can actually transform into titans unless they are given the serum.

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Not exactly.

1. Coordinate Power (Eren)
2. Female Titan (Annie)
3. Armoured Titan (Reiner)
4. Colossal Titan (Bertolt/Armin)
5. Ymir Titan (Ymir)
6. Beast Titan (Zeke)
7. Quadruped Titan (???)

It all depends on what they mean by titan powers. Are titan powers just the ability to turn into titans at will or some unique powers like the coordinate that are special among the those that can shapeshift? I'm assuming that its the former. Or perhaps each of the nine have a unique power.

I'm pretty sure, that we can assume it's about a special power for each of the nine. Colossal Titan and Armored Titan each have their unique powers as well as the Coordinate.

What I don't get: Why exactly did you take Annie and Ymir into your list? To me their titan forms didn't have anything unique. They just looked like normal titans like every other one.

One thing I took notice of was that Marley had 7 of the powers while Fritz/Reiss had 2 of them. That means there's one Marley-held titan unaccounted for; but more importantly there's one Eldian held titan power unaccounted for. Where could that one be?

I think so far it wasn't said, that it's impossible to hold more than one power at a time. Maybe the "memory altering" the royal family was practicing on the people inside the walls weren't actually part of the coordinate, but the missing second power.
We also don't know what happens to a power in case the person in posession dies. It's possible that the power is lost completely in this case.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

They are Eldian exactly like the ones who live inside the walled city and the people inside the walled cities do not normally turn into titans. So I think it's pretty safe to assume that none of the people in the ghetto can actually transform into titans unless they are given the serum.

Right, how could I forget.
So basically the Eldian can only turn into shifters, by beeing given the serum. Which makes me wonder, what would happen if a normal human got the injection. Nothing? Death?
This is especially interessting, because it was said, that the Ackermann family was immune to the King's memory alteration. So it could be, that they weren' of Eldian descent but normal humans.

There are still some other questions, which weren't answered yet:
For example what about titan consciousness. The Eldian couldn't have ruled the world for nearly two-thousand years, with only mindless titans. And a civil war would have been impossible this way as well. So there has to be another way to regain the consciousness, besides of eating a titan who regained it. It could be another serum, or one of the nine powers. The only thing we can be sure of is, that the royals didn't take it with them into the walls, because they had to fall back to the eating-ceremony, while the Mare soldiers from outside all come with their mind intact.

Another thing is: Why didn't the Mare fear, that the Eldian they sent to the island as mindless titans were used against them? We know that the wielder of the coordinate can order them around. So technically they were just providing their enemy with new soldiers.

Interesting is also, that „Owl“ was leading the complete Restoration Movement from within the Mare government. For all we know, all the information could have been fake and the whole resistance was just some sort of puppet organisation.

One thing I didn't quite get is, why in the beginning the other soldier told his comrade to have mercy with Grisha, but then actually was the worse one.

BTW, the Fritz' had 145 kings in 1760 years, which makes an average reign of less than 13 years. The current japanese emperor is supposed to be the 125th in about 2700 years.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

Something doesn't add up.

The warning was that if they were interfered the Fritz king would retaliate with the Colossal titans.

Given that it was pretty obvious who attacked them why didn't the king retaliate? If there were only a few select Titans (9) then reports of the armored titan and what not would've been the evidence the King needed to see that Mare was going after them.

The king is long dead. Its will and powers have been inherited by the Reiss, remember? (the true royal family). Grisha stole that power right after Wall Maria was breached, leaving them with no way to retaliate.

Mare obviously couldn't have known this would happen though, so I have no clue why they thought it was a good idea to do that. Unless they managed to turn Grisha over to their side, by holding Zeke and his wife hostage.

Originally Posted by The Small One

I'm pretty sure, that we can assume it's about a special power for each of the nine. Colossal Titan and Armored Titan each have their unique powers as well as the Coordinate.

What I don't get: Why exactly did you take Annie and Ymir into your list? To me their titan forms didn't have anything unique. They just looked like normal titans like every other one.

The main special power is being a shifter. There are only nine of them in existence. It is correct to include Annie and Ymir into the list. We were told in this chapter that the children would be given the power of the seven titans that Mare held, so obviously, Annie is one of the seven, and Ymir became one as well through eating Marcel.

Grisha might have been one of the seven too, for reasons I explained above.

Right, how could I forget.
So basically the Eldian can only turn into shifters, by beeing given the serum. Which makes me wonder, what would happen if a normal human got the injection. Nothing? Death?
This is especially interessting, because it was said, that the Ackermann family was immune to the King's memory alteration. So it could be, that they weren' of Eldian descent but normal humans.

The Eldians turn into mindless titans when being injected, as seen with Eren or Armin. They can only turn into a shifter by eating another shifter. Bertolt told Ymir he and Reiner didn't remember who they ate to turn into shifters either, and noted it was the same for Eren (ch47).

I think you're right to think nothing would happen if a non-eldian were injected with the serum though. That would explain why they had to select people from the Eldians in order to carry out the infiltration mission. That or they can only turn into mindless titans and not shifters.

There are still some other questions, which weren't answered yet:
For example what about titan consciousness. The Eldian couldn't have ruled the world for nearly two-thousand years, with only mindless titans. And a civil war would have been impossible this way as well. So there has to be another way to regain the consciousness, besides of eating a titan who regained it. It could be another serum, or one of the nine powers. The only thing we can be sure of is, that the royals didn't take it with them into the walls, because they had to fall back to the eating-ceremony, while the Mare soldiers from outside all come with their mind intact.

Of course they could. They had the coordinates. Things started going to shit precisely because the 145th king stopped using his power to maintain balance in the world.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Given Frieda was possessed by the First King who ranted to Historia she should not go over the fence and their people are sinners the Mare version of history is more accurate. Grisha only went over supposition based on what he can read, which is little based on pictures, from what Night Owl gave him.

What happened is likely after Ymir died it all went to shit as her successors became corrupt making the Eldians a murderous people.

The first king tired of war retreated to the island with his people but leaving behind a portion Eldians on the continent.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That would explain why they had to select people from the Eldians in order to carry out the infiltration mission. That or they can only turn into mindless titans and not shifters.

That's what I thought as well, but then how exactly did they steal the power of the titans from Eldia? I guess they are pretty good at brainwashing people...

[Jmariofan7]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The main special power is being a shifter. There are only nine of them in existence. It is correct to include Annie and Ymir into the list. We were told in this chapter that the children would be given the power of the seven titans that Mare held, so obviously, Annie is one of the seven, and Ymir became one as well through eating Marcel.

Then how do you explain all the titans with Zeke, Bertolt and Reiner at the battle of Wall Maria? Those were obviously shifters. The nine pieces of Ymir Fritz's soul all have powers that are unique from regular shifters.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Anyway the reason I think they are with the resistance is because we have seen that the resistance's objective is to take the coordinate back to the mainland and use it to wage war on Mare. Meanwhile Mare's objective is simply to conquer the island where the Elodian refugees are.

BRA's objective is quite clearly to get the coordinate and go back to their country as soon as they get it. So their objective fits perfectly with the resistance's objective but not quite with Mare's objective.

It was said that Mare also wants the coordinate power. The island is overrun with titans, the power to control them would allow them to take control of the island. This is also why Grisha wanted to send Zeke to join Mare's forces. Mares forces would go after the coordinate power and Zeke would be able to take it from them when they got it... but Zeke betrayed them. Really the end of the chapter makes it pretty clear that Zeke was likely brainwashed after he was handed over. Zeke and BRA are working for Mare to take back the coordinate power and take over the island.


I'd also add that while the resistance does want the coordinate power, they do not have a reason to kill all the humans in the walls. They are Eldians just like them. Killing all the humans would be more in line with Mare's goals. It was pointed out that the Mare care nothing for the lives of the Eldians and would even kill them on a whim; so mass genocide would be acceptable. And since they want to take over the island they would need to deal with the Eldians anyway. Zeke and BRA have also referred to the people as "sinful" which is how the Mare's commonly regard the descendants of the Eldian's

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The main special power is being a shifter. There are only nine of them in existence. It is correct to include Annie and Ymir into the list. We were told in this chapter that the children would be given the power of the seven titans that Mare held, so obviously, Annie is one of the seven, and Ymir became one as well through eating Marcel.

Uh, no. We've seen more than nine shifters already. As Jmariofan7 pointed out all the titan soldiers at the recent battle were shifters as well.
Beeing a titan with a clear mind doesn't qualify to be one of the nine powers. Having a special power does.

As I already wrote: There has to be another way to regain one's mind besides eating a shifter. And Mare is in posession of this knowledge.
However, considering that Berthold and Reiner both had a special power, it's not so farfetched to assume that the third person in their group had one as well, which could make Ymir special as well. We just didn't see the special power yet.

How did Grisha became human again after roaming the outside of the walls for dozens of years?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

Then how do you explain all the titans with Zeke, Bertolt and Reiner at the battle of Wall Maria? Those were obviously shifters. The nine pieces of Ymir Fritz's soul all have powers that are unique from regular shifters.

None of them displayed any sign of intelligence, and they were just as easy to kill as regular titans. That wouldn't have been the case if they had been shifters with their mind intact, and could therefore actually fight. Furthermore, Zeke's plan would have been very different if all those titans had been shifters. As it was, his plan relied entirely on Reiner, Bertolt, and his own pitching skills.

Zeke was simply controlling those titans, he had already done so before with titans we know were mindless when he titanized the people within the walls. I believe he possesses a power similar to that of the coordinates, only far less potent (the titans have to hear his voice, and they may not always follow the orders, which I assume have to be simple). It might be because he's a descendant of the Fritz.

The only titan we know for sure was a shifter is the quadruped one, and that was noted in the story by Erwin, then confirmed later in a flashback showing him talk.

The only hint these titans were shifters were the explosions, but that could have just been Zeke turning regular people into titans right then.

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by Kanon

None of them displayed any sign of intelligence, and they were just as easy to kill as regular titans.

Of course they showed intelligence!
They formed a perfect formation and didn't move from their position. Every normal titan would have moved around, going after every human they see. However they held their position, which proves their intelligence.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by RWBladewing

My favorite part of this chapter is the Moe Titan easter egg. The appearance of that one resistance member always standing near Grisha, and the fate that was said to have befallen them all at the very end of the chapter... there is no way that is coincidence. This is the kind of really clever fan service I really enjoy.

Only part of the chapter I liked. The rest just felt like the author couldn't come up with any reasonable backstory to the Titans so just created another continent and "the devil did it" to brush it aside.

[fguerrads]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Of course they showed intelligence!
They formed a perfect formation and didn't move from their position. Every normal titan would have moved around, going after every human they see. However they held their position, which proves their intelligence.

They are controlled by Zeke.

And about the 9, Eren possibly have the power of 2 titans, Grisha was sentient when he acquired the Coordinate Titan, he probably ate another Shifter. So there is only 1 remaining.

[Avrorrange]

I think Zeke's power is the ability to turn other people into mindless titans.