(L) Shokugeki no Soma [Manga]

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

I think I've read too much Narou series.Enough about that,I am not saying that she needs to stay a butt monkey,but she should be one for a short while and then get development.

... You realize that's the exact opposite of what happens in a typical Narou series, right?

[Nuvi]

Originally Posted by theshade1

I get some of the dislike because she's a type that some ppl might dislike. But that goes for all the characters though. But I can't get the hate for something she did 100 chapters ago. Like, even none of the characters care about that, so neither do I. I mean that happens in like 100% of battle-shounens, where bad guys do a lot of evil shit at the start, pretty much warm up later on and eventually join the heroes and the things they did are hardly brought up/remembered.

From what I make of her character, she is basically an anti-heroine of this manga. I don't think that she will join Souma anytime soon...at least not yet.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Exactly. You don't need to do anything like you would see in Arifureta or Suterareta to make Erina a better person. Some simple, natural character development would do the trick.

The thing is, she needs no development, she doesn't need to become a better person. If she changes for the better, she will no longer be "Erina'. She needs to stay being the hateful antagonist for the rest of the series, that's her role. After all, in every story, beside a hero to cheer for, people also need a villain to hate.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by theshade1

I get some of the dislike because she's a type that some ppl might dislike. But that goes for all the characters though. But I can't get the hate for something she did 100 chapters ago. Like, even none of the characters care about that, so neither do I. I mean that happens in like 100% of battle-shounens, where bad guys do a lot of evil shit at the start, pretty much warm up later on and eventually join the heroes and the things they did are hardly brought up/remembered.

I think the problem is that you have to accept that she's a major character or even a potential heroine without giving her any redeemable qualities as well as to reasons why she may have acted in such a way.In battle shounen series,the 'bad' guy usually did 'bad things' for a reason.Erina on the other hand abused her authority,looked down on other people just because she can. She's like the King Joffrey of this series without the violence.

I think the point is that what she did belongs more to what villains generally do in more serious series.

Originally Posted by Endscape

... You realize that's the exact opposite of what happens in a typical Narou series, right?

Not in those I've read,no.

[DOmus]

^^Eizen and other elite ten members can fulfill that role, at least there is another girl from what I saw in a chapter

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by theshade1

I get some of the dislike because she's a type that some ppl might dislike. But that goes for all the characters though. But I can't get the hate for something she did 100 chapters ago. Like, even none of the characters care about that, so neither do I. I mean that happens in like 100% of battle-shounens, where bad guys do a lot of evil shit at the start, pretty much warm up later on and eventually join the heroes and the things they did are hardly brought up/remembered.

My bigger problem isn't exactly what she did back in the early chapters, but more like her contributions to the plot are barren and that her goal thus far is to humiliate Souma in a not so friendly way. It is basically the very opposite of what a "protagonist" would do, even a rival. That's why I understand why people consider her as a full fledged villain considering she has no positive traits whatsoever.

Right now, Erina doesn't need to be defeated or admit what she did was wrong.
What she actually need (if she is the heroine of the series) is proper exposition and character development that would make the readers -care- for her. Something like humility or inspiration in 'outside of the box' type of cooking instead of going hardcore elite way 100% to the point of considering everyone plebs.

Currently, she is pretty much a plot device instead of a character. She has no defined course of actions that have any impact in the grand scheme of things, and even Souma's goal to make her admit defeat sounds extremely weak considering the absurd lack of interactions between the two.

Otherwise, the author can keep her this way, and she would be the overarching antagonist of the series, which... works I guess.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

She's like the King Joffrey of this series.

Be serious now, she isn't anywhere near that bad.

Not in those I've read,no.

You were the one that brought up Arifureta and Suterareta, where that is very much the case...

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Right now, Erina doesn't need to be defeated or admit what she did was wrong.
What she actually need (if she is the heroine of the series) is proper exposition and character development that would make the readers -care- for her. Something like humility or inspiration in 'outside of the box' type of cooking instead of going hardcore elite way 100% to the point of considering everyone plebs.

Currently, she is pretty much a plot device instead of a character. She has no defined course of actions that have any impact in the grand scheme of things, and even Souma's goal to make her admit defeat sounds extremely weak considering the absurd lack of interactions between the two.

Agree with this 100%.

The author needs to develop Erina a little, before going into character development to make her change and become a better person. Frankly, I think this whole thing with Hisako might be how that starts off.

[theshade1]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

I think the problem is that you have to accept that she's a major character or even a potential heroine without giving her any redeemable qualities as well as to reasons why she may have acted in such a way.In battle shounen series,the 'bad' guy usually did 'bad things' for a reason.Erina on the other hand abused her authority,looked down on other people just because she can. She's like the King Joffrey of this series.


Not in those I've read,no.

Lol nah, I'd say she's more like Vegeta. Royalty who were born with super talents and handed everything in life, meets their match with the "supposed" untalented, hardworking protagonist.

So far, the implication behind her attitude is that it's due to her standing and the pressure she's under cuz of what's expected of her. Like when she said how lucky Alice was that she could freely cry or something like that.

[theshade1]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

My bigger problem isn't exactly what she did back in the early chapters, but more like her contributions to the plot are barren and that her goal thus far is to humiliate Souma in a not so friendly way. It is basically the very opposite of what a "protagonist" would do, even a rival. That's why I understand why people consider her as a full fledged villain considering she has no positive traits whatsoever.

Right now, Erina doesn't need to be defeated or admit what she did was wrong.
What she actually need is proper exposition and character development that would make the readers -care- for her. Something like humility or inspiration in cooking 'outside of the box' instead of going hardcore elite way 100% to the point of considering everyone plebs.

Currently, she is pretty much a plot device instead of a character. She has no defined course of actions that have any impact in the grand scheme of things, and even Souma's goal to make her admit defeat sounds extremely weak considering the absurd lack of interactions between the two.

Interestingly enough, there's a hint of her cooking "flaw" in the latest chapter and I'm guessing that's where there will be development.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Be serious now, she isn't anywhere near that bad.



You were the one that brought up Arifureta and Suterareta, where that is very much the case...

She's not that bad because there's no violence.They are just as bad however,in that they just abuse their authority just because THEY CAN.

Spoiler for Arifureta and Suterareta:

Arifureta doesn't really have a villainous turned heroine.On the other hand,it was very satisfying to see Kouki becoming a Butt-monkey.Erina's BS is even worst than Cookie's.As for Suterareta,we see the MC turn the heroines into buttmonkeys and some time after,development kicks in and they feel sorry for what they have done to the MC.

[Sarun]

She just needs to reflect on that (from chapter 2 & 3), talking about humiliation seems to get into soapy and melodramatic territory. Making her a serious butt-monkey sounds too much.

Besides it's not like she is one of those physically violent or annoying tsunderes. She does have consistent if not much positive character. And it's not like she is secretly liking Soma but hiding it by being antagonistic to Soma. Soma and she is still not good with each other (as what Soma himself said about himself and Erina before start of quarterfinals).

And we haven't seen her being unfair to Soma other than in those 2 earlier chapter (maybe one could count her trying to stop Soma being in automatic qualifiers for the election preliminary thing as something but that was not even 10 chapters after she saw Soma mess up in breakfast challenge though him making up for that in limited time should convince many).

Simple acknowledgement (and regret) of what she nearly caused Soma (not passing him) seems more than enough because ignoring that makes her (eventual) development weaker IMO.

[Nuvi]

Let's say for argument sake, Erina receives major development and the story starts leaning in her support and actually makes her more likeable than any other girl. So, will you guys be willing to forgive her for her arrogant attitude in Chapter 2 and 3 (for which, actually, no one cares about it anymore)?

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Sarun

She just needs to reflect on that (from chapter 2 & 3), talking about humiliation seems to get into soapy and melodramatic territory. Making her a serious butt-monkey sounds too much.

Besides it's not like she is one of those physically violent or annoying tsunderes. She does have consistent if not much positive character. And it's not like she is secretly liking Soma but hiding it by being antagonistic to Soma. Soma and she is still not good with each other (as what Soma himself said about himself and Erina before start of quarterfinals).

And we haven't seen her being unfair to Soma other than in those 2 earlier chapter (maybe one could count her trying to stop Soma being in automatic qualifiers for the election preliminary thing as something but that was not even 10 chapters after she saw Soma mess up in breakfast challenge though him making up for that in limited time should convince many).

Simple acknowledgement (and regret) of what she nearly caused Soma (not passing him) seems more than enough because ignoring that makes her (eventual) development weaker IMO.

What about how she tried to close down a club because she considered them plebeian as well as trying to abuse her authority in order to expand her kitchen and how she dropped Niku?She's a selfish,sadistic being with little to no regards to those less fortunate.

[GreyZone]

As of yet, Erina is like a "light" version of BWitch from Tate no Yuusha, just abusing her authority.

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

What about how she tried to close down a club because she considered them plebeian as well as trying to abuse her authority in order to expand her kitchen and how she dropped Niku?She's a selfish,sadistic being with little to no regards to those less fortunate.

But... but she is a beautiful girl! You must prostrate yourself before her and beg her for forgiveness instead for being so insensitive before such a high-class beauty!

Isn't that what is usually done in Shounen mangas when such a villainous "main girl" appears? Oh, I hope the author does not go down this route...

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Nuvi

Let's say for argument sake, Erina receives major development and the story starts leaning in her support and actually makes her more likeable than any other girl. So, will you guys be willing to forgive her for her arrogant attitude in Chapter 2 and 3 (for which, actually, no one cares about it anymore)?

Obviously not. Why should I forgive someone's misdeed just because they're replaced by someone else with the same name and appearance. Being an annoying bitch is Erina's very character trait. If she no longer possesses it, how can we call that girl Erina, let alone forgive her?

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

As of yet, Erina is like a "light" version of BWitch from Tate no Yuusha, just abusing her authority.





But... but she is a beautiful girl! You must prostrate yourself before her and beg her for forgiveness instead for being so insensitive before such a high-class beauty!

Isn't that what is usually done in Shounen mangas when such a villainous "main girl" appears? Oh, I hope the author does not go down this route...

Lol!I've read too much Narou not to accept routes like these.

^^I will accept her if A)she is deeply sorry for what she has done B)she is actually more likable than the other girls.But plainly,I can't see her being deeply sorry without a painful lesson.

[Sarun]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

What about how she tried to close down a club because she considered them plebeian as well as trying to abuse her authority in order to expand her kitchen and how she dropped Niku?She's a selfish,sadistic being with little to no regards to those less fortunate.

That's why I said "to Soma" but consider that she was kinda happy Soma will be expelled if he lost to Nikumi, we could perhaps add to it too as against Soma.

[dragon1412]

The problem here is with the length of the manga, we already have over 100+ chapters and nearly no development on Erina, do you see any manga that develop main heroine after 100+ chapters, the problem here is not whether or not the Main heroine is likeable or not, but rather because after 100+ chapters most fans will already attached to a particular girl. So far, all Erina have going for herself is her visual, somethings that even her fans admitted.

[Sarun]

Originally Posted by Nuvi

Let's say for argument sake, Erina receives major development and the story starts leaning in her support and actually makes her more likeable than any other girl. So, will you guys be willing to forgive her for her arrogant attitude in Chapter 2 and 3 (for which, actually, no one cares about it anymore)?

Forgive? She is just a character.

Her development (to be more and more friendly to Soma and other protagonists) would be good if her character is shown to address (or reflect on) what she done in chapter 2 & 3 (regardless whether Soma cares because I don't think it's in Soma's character to care or brood over it). I know some want humiliation that feels too melodramatic/cliche to me.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Lol!I've read too much Narou not to accept routes like these.

That is actually one of those things that I REALLY like about Narou. People often use the straw man argument that they are "wish-fulfillment" stories, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with how such selfish characters are being treated.

The only shounen manga that does it "right", IMO, is One Piece. Boa Hancook is THE parody character of that archtype as in her case her behaviour is obviously overblown and from the beginning played for laughs. However she is actually "legit", as she has had an actual traumatic background that makes her behaviour understandable and it's shown that she is really "broken" on the inside. So compared to others, she is actually a much better working "ice-queen" than any other I have seen before.


Erina? She is not "broken", she is just outright "evil" out of pure arrogance. It's so bad I cannot even call it "pride" anymore because in almost every instance you can replace the word "pride" by "arrogance".