Fate/stay night manga discussion

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Moczo

And hey, she did do better than everyone else. At least she forced Bazett to fight seriously before she... got crushed.

... hmmm. Good point. A Noble Phantasm would just get Fragarach'd, so she needs to pull off the kind of trick she used on the Assassin Card, just a full-scale magical doomblast, and she was not in her right mind while doing that. Still, her state of mind seems to be rapidly flying toward 'desperate' as this chapter progresses...

Wait, if the doomblast is not "officially" considered a Noble Phantasm but is equal in power to one, can Fragra counter that too?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Wait, if the doomblast is not "officially" considered a Noble Phantasm but is equal in power to one, can Fragra counter that too?

I think in that scenario it comes down to "who hits the hardest". And we already know from past mentions of it that Ilya has quite a bit of unlocked potential just waiting to come out. Considering that she's rapidly approaching the same mindset that made her go Archer on Assassin, and Rin herself states at the very end of the chapter that Ilya is the key, it all comes down to if she can pull that kind of feat off again.

[Random Wanderer]

But does Illya even have that power anymore? It seemed to be said that the part of her that did that was her sealed self: the part of her that split off and became Kuro. And we have seen that ever since Kuro and Illya split, Illya's magical output even with Ruby has gone WAY down. I don't think Illya CAN pull out the "lyrical-grade" magical blasts any more.

And since Kuro's energy doesn't seem to regenerate on its own, if SHE does it she could very well kill herself. And that's assuming Bazette's game-breaker doesn't do it first.

How DID Miyu survive? Fragarach or however that's spelled is supposed to be unavoidable. Then again, Gae Bolg is too, and Saber survived it. Perhaps Miyu has an inhumanly high luck-stat. But the two are unavoidable for different reasons... These folks really like to tease us by pretending to give clues about Miyu without actually revealing anything.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

How DID Miyu survive? Fragarach or however that's spelled is supposed to be unavoidable. Then again, Gae Bolg is too, and Saber survived it. Perhaps Miyu has an inhumanly high luck-stat. But the two are unavoidable for different reasons... These folks really like to tease us by pretending to give clues about Miyu without actually revealing anything.

If what they've been hinting about Miyu is true and she has some kind of connection to Shirou, it's possible that she has the same endurance/regeneration power that he has, or perhaps some kind of variation of it. Personally, I'm glad to see hints being dropped about her again. It's been a few chapters since they touched on the fact that she isn't human.

[yh3t]

I watched this anime a long ago, but decided to read the last chapter of the manga just now. I'm confused. o_O
Is the manga sorta different from the anime?

[RadiantBeam]

It is. The manga is more of a mix of UBW and Fate, while the anime was a little bit of UBW, Fate, and HF.

[Random Wanderer]

Hmm... it occurs to me that a potential way for the girls to at least defeat Bazette's trump card is for one of them to use Berserker. From what I read, Fragarach has limited uses, so Berserker's 12 lives would likely be enough to outlast her.

On the other hand, I don't think I would want to see one of the girls transform into an over-muscled monster like that...

[DezoPenguin]

Heck, since Fragarach just counters Noble Phantasms, Berserker would be perfect because it would give the raw power/speed/CON bonuses to stay in the fight with Bazett's crazy fighting skills. Except, of course, that Bazett has six cards now, presumably including Berserker, so that's out.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Heck, since Fragarach just counters Noble Phantasms, Berserker would be perfect because it would give the raw power/speed/CON bonuses to stay in the fight with Bazett's crazy fighting skills. Except, of course, that Bazett has six cards now, presumably including Berserker, so that's out.

According to the wiki article I read about it, Fragarach is actually capable of working against any attack, it is just most effective when used against an enemy's most powerful strike. Apparently when used against a lesser attack, its retalitory strike may not be lethal. It states that using it against Berserker would cost him one of his lives unconditionally, but that's no big threat to him.

As for getting the card, it's true that Bazette has it at the moment, but Illya made specific note of where she put them, so I suspect she isn't going to keep them for long. And the seventh card she's missing is obviously Archer, because it's part of Kuro. I'm not sure Kuro can even survive if the card is removed, and it's not something I'm anxious to have tested.

[GlancingReverse]

Fragarach just takes the force of the opposing strike and sends it back at them faster, or something like that.

The missing card is definitely Archer, which leads to the question of just what Illya could do that would actually work.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

It is. The manga is more of a mix of UBW and Fate, while the anime was a little bit of UBW, Fate, and HF.

No, the anime was not a "little bit of UBW, Fate and HF", the anime is 90% Fate, 7% UBW and 3% some horrible bastardisation which is supposed to be based on HF but which actually has absolutely none of what makes HF so great and which makes precisely fuck-all sense.

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Hmm... it occurs to me that a potential way for the girls to at least defeat Bazette's trump card is for one of them to use Berserker. From what I read, Fragarach has limited uses, so Berserker's 12 lives would likely be enough to outlast her.

On the other hand, I don't think I would want to see one of the girls transform into an over-muscled monster like that...

Actually, it's even better than that, because God Hand means that Fragarach will only work on him once. Indeed, this actually happens in canon, when Bazett fights Berserker in Hollow Ataraxia.

Originally Posted by GlancingReverse

Fragarach just takes the force of the opposing strike and sends it back at them faster, or something like that.

Not true. Fragarach only works against the opponents trump card, but it doesn't use the force of that attack against the enemy, it merely kills them before they can even make said attack.

The missing card is definitely Archer, which leads to the question of just what Illya could do that would actually work.

Well, Archer has a lot of things which are powerful but don't count as "trump cards", so....

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

No, the anime was not a "little bit of UBW, Fate and HF", the anime is 90% Fate, 7% UBW and 3% some horrible bastardisation which is supposed to be based on HF but which actually has absolutely none of what makes HF so great and which makes precisely fuck-all sense.

Lol. In the spirit of Tsukihime, I will now announce that there was no HF in the FSN anime.

[SalvadorLida]

Yazılanlar çok değişik - ilgimi cekti, okumaya devam edecegim..

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Haak

Lol. In the spirit of Tsukihime, I will now announce that there was no HF in the FSN anime.

I was half-expecting you to say: "There was no FSN anime".

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Actually, it's even better than that, because God Hand means that Fragarach will only work on him once. Indeed, this actually happens in canon, when Bazett fights Berserker in Hollow Ataraxia.

Sounds like that's their best chance, then. But perhaps the author has some other idea for how to get them out of this. I just hope something is done before the Archer card is taken, because I really am afraid Kuro will die without it.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Haak

Lol. In the spirit of Tsukihime, I will now announce that there was no HF in the FSN anime.

Well, there actually isn't. None of the plot points of HF are actually mentioned in any real detail (even Rin's relationship with Sakura isn't made clear), and the similarities between the battle scenes are entirely superficial.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

Sounds like that's their best chance, then. But perhaps the author has some other idea for how to get them out of this. I just hope something is done before the Archer card is taken, because I really am afraid Kuro will die without it.

Unless as a last resort, Kuro decides to merge with Ilya and return to her for safety, at least until the worst of the danger passes. Considering what they've been hinting with Ilya though in the past few chapters, I doubt anyone will be dying if she has a say in it.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Unless as a last resort, Kuro decides to merge with Ilya and return to her for safety, at least until the worst of the danger passes.

I'm not sure they could merge and remain separate individuals capable of splitting again.

We shall have to count on Illya and Rin's ingenuity.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

I'm not sure they could merge and remain separate individuals capable of splitting again.

We shall have to count on Illya and Rin's ingenuity.

Blah, yeah, I forgot about that. I just remember having a conversation with Moczo over the possibility of Kuro merging with Ilya again at some point.

Still, it pretty much is up to Ilya at this point. Rin definitely seems to think she can win, so we'll have to see what she does in the next chapter.

[Tiresias]

*cough*2wei 16 is up*cough*

Spoiler for :

8th card?! Wonder whether it'll be Avenger or Gilgamesh...