(L) Kaichou wa Maid-sama!

[RedWing]

Maybe, I'm too bitter for shoujo, but I can't be the only person unimpressed by the severe un-originality of this show? C'mon the scene where she faints into his arms are cringe worthy, the weak body stuff that's so played out it hurts, the boy who is uninterested in any girl is soooo into the main character, the sudden overt display of affection even though they only started talking recently? I can't see how this is any different from any other show.

Is there any shoujo where the girl actually has to work to get the guy to show interest? Not tsundere or dere dere but, you know, reality?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

dunno if it would actually look good with the ugly green lol.

I don't know why, though i found myself rather interesting in the green blazer. I do have a strange sense in fashion, so that probably explains a bit.

[Blue-kun]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Maybe, I'm too bitter for shoujo, but I can't be the only person unimpressed by the severe un-originality of this show? C'mon the scene where she faints into his arms are cringe worthy, the weak body stuff that's so played out it hurts, the boy who is uninterested in any girl is soooo into the main character, the sudden overt display of affection even though they only started talking recently? I can't see how this is any different from any other show.

Is there any shoujo where the girl actually has to work to get the guy to show interest? Not tsundere or dere dere but, you know, reality?

While I do agree with you that there's hardly anything mind-blowing about the premise, I just don't think of your notion of 'reality' as accurate. I'm not sure if it's something exclusive to where I live, but I hardly think there is a need for incredibly fairytale-ish stories so that two persons can get acquainted and feel attracted to each other. In real life there are so many guys I know who went after a girl based solely on looks, I mean, is it that unnusual for something like this to happen? Of course, whether it works out afterwards depends on a lot of factors, but the trigger could be anything!

Please note, though, that I'm not saying it's the case here. Actually, of course looks might have played a part on it, but our main bud even went as far as listing to Misa a few of her strong points near the end of this episode. So yeah, it didn't feel cheap or anything to me, but of course I expect future developments to have more meat to it. Meanwhile, though, so far, so good.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Is there any shoujo where the girl actually has to work to get the guy to show interest? Not tsundere or dere dere but, you know, reality?

There are a ton of shoujo series where the girl chases after the disinterested guy, but honestly those are usually even worse.

[Mentar]

Ah well. I'll embark on what I'm 99% certain will be a fools errand, but I think I'll try to comment on a few things and try to give a differing opinion. I do remember you from the preview thread where you were complaining about EVERYTHNIG right off the bat... oh my.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

KWMS has the most solid romantic progression of any shoujo I've ever seen; people can compare it to Special A or Kare Kano all they like, but the similarities end with the superficial 'two best students' premise.

I agree that the romantic progression is the strong point of the manga, especially in the later chapters. And I do see a strong correlation between Kare Kano's Yukino and Misaki, just like Special A's Takishima very much resembles Usui. However, as much as I like the story (and pushed for working on it), I wouldn't call it a huge masterpiece. It's a very solid and enjoyable show which I expect to be easy to watch. Nothing more, nothing less.

It seems anime adaptations of romance mangas always seem to lack the ability to grasp the spirit behind the story, as opposed to the superficial words. The script, the voice acting, and the animation was completely stiff and meaningless until they finally managed to pull together for the last scene. What a failure to communicate the intention behind the series!

Oh dear, how terrible. They must have completely turned the show upside-down. Let's see.

Let me highlight probably the major failure of this episode: the very first opening scene. It's kinda rare for me to really note background music in anime, let alone criticise it, but I've never experienced a greater clash between intent and execution in my entire anime-watching history. While Misaki is chewing out the delinquit trio on their outfits, some upbeat, inspirational piece is going on in the background, making Misaki's male persecution out to be some sort of mandate of justice, in pursuit of progress and betterment for the school. Fail, JC Staff! Misaki's oppression of delinquints isn't supposed to be inspired and progressive--it's supposed to be a reign of terror fueled by irrational hate!

O_o;

Excuse me, but what is your idea of this show? This is no psycho drama about tyranny and suppression. It's a mostly-lighthearted shoujo romantic comedy. The music choice was spot-on, because Misaki's primary trait is her _energy_ and _dedication_ in the face of hardships. Her hatred for men is a facet which has already been developed in the anime, in fact a 1:1 conversion from the manga.

Your "it's all terror" interpretation is pretty wrong anyway. Because if that were true, the reactions leading to Misaki's crisis in the next episode would make no sense whatsoever. The thing is that while the students fear Misaki's flaring temper, most boys see her as a NUISANCE, not a threat. They are ANNOYED by what they feel is unfair persecution, not afraid while suffering under it in your terror scenario.

Misaki's hatred of males is supposed to be a crippling character flaw, and the way the manga makes this presentable is by making it epic. Where the fuck was Misaki's demon aura this episode? The Student Council President isn't supposed to be righteous and sparkling--she's supposed to be a tyrannical demon before whom all men cower!

For those unfamiliar with the manga: The "demon" scenes from the anime were 1:1 conversions of the manga. Every single "demon" scene in the first manga chapter was identically shown in the anime.

Seriously, I have no clue what you're talking about. I'll try to pick out the scenes where you claim were any differences.

The anime's failure to communicate Misaki's tyrannical and irrational hatred has repercussions through the rest of the script. Because Misaki hasn't been shown to be an extraordinary person (in ways both negative and positive), Usui's question "was she always like this?" becomes meaningless.

Simply not true. Her hatred WAS shown EXACTLY the same way it was in the manga, and no serious viewer would have missed that 1) she has a huge bone to pick with men and 2) there's pushback from the male students because they feel treated unfairly.

The anime also fails to show the true contrast between Misaki's duel natures--generally in the form of Misaki's gracefulness when she's working as a maid, but more critically for this episode: as it was revealed to Usui when Misaki recieved that flower from Shizuko. In that scene, rather than a shocking revelation of Misaki's heretofore unseen gentle side, whereupon she fairly glows with beauty, in huge contrast with her rough and unfeminine manner in dealing with boys, all the anime manages to get accross is a blushing idiot.

1:1 manga conversion.

Here's a hint for anime-only viewers: it was not the flower that Misaki was delighted by--it was the tender feelings of the two girls.

1:1 manga conversion.

JC Staff's writer seems to have intentionally watered-down Misaki's roughness and prejudiced man-hating on multiple counts. First there's the seemingly pointless script change for the magazine confiscation scene: in the manga, the boys aren't inappropriately looking at a magazine at all. Rather, they were actually confronting a group of girls for reading magazines at school--because in fact, Misaki had banned all magazines from campus, but apparently only enforced this with the boys. Misaki initially took the girls' side in spite of this, and her subsequent concession of "I'll make a list of acceptable magazines" only arose from the clear resulting case of gender inequality. In the anime, by making the girls' magazine-reading only an afterthought, as opposed to the central issue in a case of gender inequality, the writers watered down how Misaki's persecution of guys is irrational and tyrannical.

Minimal change to a much simpler-to-understand situation. The manga version was clunky and unnatural - do you see guys complaining to girls about reading forbidden magazines? The key point is that the guys feel treated unfairly compared to the girls and was kept.

There is a similarly pointless omission of a line from Usui's conversation with Misaki at the playground. When Usui questions why Misaki didn't take a construction job at a location closer to her home, he first notes her great physical strength. This line in combination with the 'construction job' suggestion serves to highlight Misaki's unfeminine attributes. By glossing over the fact that Misaki would find a construction job entirely appropriate if only she had the stamina to keep up with her studies and Council work at the same time, the anime further water downs Misaki's rough and ungraceful personality.

Another minimal change which doesn't really alter anything.

Finally, a third example of JC Staff's writer completely missing Misaki's characterization is the anime-original scene where Sakura and Shizuko notify her of her 2nd place standing. The scriptwriter somehow decided it was in character for Misaki to coolly walk away while processing the revelation silently. In the manga, where this news is instead delivered by a teacher, Misaki's surprise and outrage is clearly demonstrated--she is fuming.

This is definitely an improvement over the manga version. In the manga, the teacher is berating her for slipping grades, when she scored second place (I always found that fairly silly back then). The anime delivery properly fixes this glitch and still retains her anger - we can see that she is irritated - that part stayed the same.

Unlike JC Staff's portrayal of her, Misaki is not a controlled or contemplative/thoughtful character!

And JC Staff never pictured her like that (controlled). See all the demon scenes which you seem to have missed before. And unlike your caricature idea of Misaki, she _is_ a contemplative/thoughtful character. I'm flabbergasted that you'd even think to argue otherwise, with your manga knowledge. When she's in trouble, she DOES brood over things, continuously.

She is actually dense, stubborn, and prone to violence.

She isn't dense in the least, in fact she's very bright. Stubborn yes, prone to violence yes.

Misaki is not a coolheaded and reasonable leader either--all her policies are directly motivated by prejudice.

Why do you always have to be so extreme? In the anime she wasn't displayed as coolheaded at all, but rather as a firestarter with a short fuse. And not ALL her policies are directly motivated by prejudice. It's ONE trait of her, but not her only one.

In trying to present Misaki as a faultless and admirable character,

Are you sure you've watched the same anime I did? I'm talking about J.C.Staff's Kaichou wa Maid-sama.

All this, and I haven't even gotten to the animation, lol.

Oh boy. There we go.

The basic issue is that both Misaki and Usui's faces are too long/narrow, but Misaki suffers more with an ugly, too long hairstyle and eyes that are too large.

I suggest that those people who want to form an unbiased opinion should read one of the latest chapters and compare the frames.

The truth is that Misaki's hairstyle is 100% exactly her default hairstyle AND length of the later chapters (in the earlier chapters the mangaka went for a shorter look).

What we're having here is the classic recurring issue of anime adaptations of manga material which changed the style over the years. And - as usual, see Hayate no Gotoku, Toradora or others - J.C.Staff decides to stay consistent with the NEWER art. I'm male, so maybe I lack the eyes to appreciate the Usui art. But I didn't notice any major changes there, either.

Because character anime art _must_ be simplified compared to manga art (much less strokes), it will always look a bit "watered down". But I'd say that they managed to stay very consistent with the original. Nevertheless, truth is in the eye of the beholder.

All in all, I am in despair that this anime will do any justice to the manga, or even help increase its popularity. My remaining mission in watching it, and further posts in this thread if I make any, will be to defend the source material i.e. the manga from criticisms of the failures of the anime.

I think that ever since the anime was announced, you're trying a bit TOO hard to hate it. But man, I'm sure that people in this thread will be thrilled to hear week after wee why you so much hated what they managed to watch with enjoyment in an easygoing manner...

Would a little bit less vitriol and more calm be too much to ask for? Then I believe it would be much more fruitful and enjoyable to debate over nuances.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I have to say how much I appreciated both Sol Falling's criticisms and Mentar's defence. Both were fascinating, and both made sense.

I only read a few chapters of the manga -- then quit so as not to subject myself to the inevitable dissatisfaction with the anime. I loved episode one, but I do feel as if they lightened Misaki's character. However, I also feel she was never a perfect devil, and always was the intelligent and basically good person she is portrayed as in the anime, despite her intense frustration with the boys and aggressive attempts to keep them in line. It's a fine line between being aggressive and being a caricature. But I think we maybe didn't get quite enough of the background for her hatred for guys.

I'm delighted to hear that there is good romantic development ahead, since I saw things moving so quickly in that regard that I wondered what they were going to be able to do with the rest of the episodes. I have no trouble seeing why Usui is falling for Misaki: smart, energetic, upright, strong, highly individual, and very pretty. She has a temper, but so do most goddesses.

I can't compare this to SA, since I could only bear to watch a couple of episodes of that. It seemed stupid to me, for some reason. I loved Kare Kano. But these two characters are pretty different from those, it seems to me: just on the surface, Misaki is harsher and less vulnerable; and Usui is a cooler guy, not a hint of nerd.

I have no idea if this show can continue to delight me as much as ep1 did, but it's good to hear that there is plenty of good material ahead for them to work with.

[konart]

Skipped walls of text, lol.

To sum up: Loved the 1st ep in all possible ways, and even read all the chapters of manga available at the moment

The main positive point here - we do not need to watch another 24 episode for characters to come to the point were they finally understand thier feelings, first(second, third...99th) kiss etc.

For me it's just as Kare Kano mixed with Ouran, but with more adequate plot and characters.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Ah well. I'll embark on what I'm 99% certain will be a fools errand, but I think I'll try to comment on a few things and try to give a differing opinion. I do remember you from the preview thread where you were complaining about EVERYTHNIG right off the bat... oh my.

:P Well, that isn't to say that my apprehensions then were the exactly the same as my disappointments now. I just call things how I see them, and I'll admit, some of my fears back then were rectified. For example, I have few issues with the current voicecast.

I agree that the romantic progression is the strong point of the manga, especially in the later chapters. And I do see a strong correlation between Kare Kano's Yukino and Misaki, just like Special A's Takishima very much resembles Usui. However, as much as I like the story (and pushed for working on it), I wouldn't call it a huge masterpiece. It's a very solid and enjoyable show which I expect to be easy to watch. Nothing more, nothing less.

Superficial resemblances in personality might be there, and I used to note and believe in them myself. However, when I try think of the themes of these stories conceptually, they're anything but compatible. Kare Kano ended up embracing in dramatic manner a theme of darkness and light; Souichiro was steeped in darkness, and Yukino saved him from it. The drama behind that sort of dynamic (Souichiro's jealousy; Souichiro throwing himself into revenge) will never have a place in Maid-sama. In the first place Usui's issue is not darkness but emptiness--and what Misaki means to him is not light but purpose.

Special A, on the other hand, ended up mired in 'the perfect guy has family problems', and ended on a 'we've returned to the status quo' note in a somewhat inconclusive manner. Yes, Kei and Usui are similar, but only insofar as they seem to embody an ideal for a 'perfect lover'. The characters themselves are different, with regards to their motivations and their troubles. We already know that KWMS is not about Usui's family. Also, the point of KWMS's romantic progression is important here: Special A's ending basically said in a roundabout way, 'here is the relationship between two people; they are friends. Here is the same relationship again: now they are lovers.' KWMS's narrative intention will be divorced from this--Misaki and Usui's relationship is constantly growing, and yet meaningful in itself--we are not holding out for a sudden jump from 'friends' to 'lovers'.

Thus my point is, any commentary to the effect of 'I've seen this before' due to familiarity with Kare Kano or Special A is way off base. KWMS is a different beast, and more solid all around.

Oh dear, how terrible. They must have completely turned the show upside-down. Let's see.

O_o;

Excuse me, but what is your idea of this show? This is no psycho drama about tyranny and suppression. It's a mostly-lighthearted shoujo romantic comedy. The music choice was spot-on, because Misaki's primary trait is her _energy_ and _dedication_ in the face of hardships. Her hatred for men is a facet which has already been developed in the anime, in fact a 1:1 conversion from the manga.

Your "it's all terror" interpretation is pretty wrong anyway. Because if that were true, the reactions leading to Misaki's crisis in the next episode would make no sense whatsoever. The thing is that while the students fear Misaki's flaring temper, most boys see her as a NUISANCE, not a threat. They are ANNOYED by what they feel is unfair persecution, not afraid while suffering under it in your terror scenario.

The initial stages of the manga are about Misaki's deficiencies as both maid and Kaichou. Misaki doesn't come into her own as President until late in the series, well settled in her relationship with Usui. Misaki might be about hard work and perseverence in the face of hardships, but in the opening stages of the manga, the point is that her single-mindedness creates a negative effect in both occupations. How many people got the characterization behind Misaki's "I'm half-assing everything?" Misaki's failure to live up to her responsibilities is a result of overreaching due to her own overriding prejudice. Usui's early relationship with her is forged through being a helping hand when it's all too much for her, and telling her to mellow out. By trying to show Misaki's determination as an inequivocal positive, the show cripples the growth this contrast highlights.

I'm not trying to get psychological or dark or anything. The point is, in the early chapters, the emphasis on Misaki's Student Council policies is that she is extreme, not progressive or well-intentioned. We can accept Misaki's characterization because of her background and her motivation, and perhaps even find her extremism generally humourous--however, we must also clearly accept that Misaki's attitude, at that point in the story, is biased and harmful.

For those unfamiliar with the manga: The "demon" scenes from the anime were 1:1 conversions of the manga. Every single "demon" scene in the first manga chapter was identically shown in the anime.

Seriously, I have no clue what you're talking about. I'll try to pick out the scenes where you claim were any differences.

Another minimal change which doesn't really alter anything.

Like I was saying about the 'spirit' as opposed to the surface: a 1:1 conversion of lines from the manga doesn't mean much when manga hasn't got animation and voice-acting. Misaki's demon aura in the manga is epic--it's not merely played for humour, it's also a demonstration of her full potency as a character. The anime fails to convey that--sure Misaki blocked one punch and prettily flipped over a punching bag; however, she still comes across as a weak little girl who faints into the arms of the love-interest (per some other poster earlier). Misaki's 'demon' scenes serve in the manga to emphasize Misaki's sheer power--which the anime fails to get across. Or as in the case of the, as you noted, minor change (i.e. one they could have just as easily not made)--which the anime seems to actively resist.

Minimal change to a much simpler-to-understand situation. The manga version was clunky and unnatural - do you see guys complaining to girls about reading forbidden magazines? The key point is that the guys feel treated unfairly compared to the girls and was kept.

There is a difference in degrees between confronting the girls because they're openly breaking rules designed to punish the guys, and pointing them out after being caught breaking the rules themselves. In the first case Misaki has to be cornered into approving magazines, demonstrating her prejudice; in the second case, Misaki's despotic rule comes off as just an omission which she reasonably agrees to amend. The key point isn't that the guys 'feel' unfairly treated; they are unfairly treated.

This is definitely an improvement over the manga version. In the manga, the teacher is berating her for slipping grades, when she scored second place (I always found that fairly silly back then). The anime delivery properly fixes this glitch and still retains her anger - we can see that she is irritated - that part stayed the same.

And JC Staff never pictured her like that (controlled). See all the demon scenes which you seem to have missed before. And unlike your caricature idea of Misaki, she _is_ a contemplative/thoughtful character. I'm flabbergasted that you'd even think to argue otherwise, with your manga knowledge. When she's in trouble, she DOES brood over things, continuously.

She isn't dense in the least, in fact she's very bright. Stubborn yes, prone to violence yes.

Why do you always have to be so extreme? In the anime she wasn't displayed as coolheaded at all, but rather as a firestarter with a short fuse. And not ALL her policies are directly motivated by prejudice. It's ONE trait of her, but not her only one.

I don't think the teacher was berating her; rather, expressing genuine concern. Misaki has outstanding relationships with her teachers, so this only makes sense. The teacher is concerned that Misaki is not in her usual form--which is in fact the central development of the chapter, leading up to her collapse and Usui helping her, and also telling her to lighten up. Misaki didn't fall to 2nd place just because Usui was harassing her--thus the anime lost this point, and a bit of narrative coherency, by injecting its own version of the story.

As for being controlled, JC Staff had Misaki walk off without a word to Sakura or Shizuko, and had Shizuko interpret that as Misaki being angry. The fact that Shizuko has to interpret Misaki's bizarre behaviour for us suggests that Misaki is hiding it, i.e.controlling her emotion/reaction. The point is that it is completely unprecedented behaviour for Misaki's character--Misaki doesn't consciously close herself off from her friends, and neither does she like to waste any time actually brooding. In the manga, Misaki's anger is expressed enroute to whatever her next task is, returning from the teacher's office; in the anime, Misaki leaves her friends without a word just to think about it.

As for Misaki's denseness, I'm not referring to her academic skill. Misaki is pretty closed off and oblivious to everything outside of her own world; from otaku culture to Usui's feelings for her, Misaki is generally pretty slow on the uptake. I'm emphasizing Misaki's faults because that's were the development lies at the start of the series; they are vital for demonstrating how Usui starts off not just saving Misaki when she needs it, but helping her improve herself as a person. JC Staff might be following the script closely enough, but in all aspects of the execution--in crafting the voicework, the music, and the animation to support the narrative intention--they demonstrate a lack of understanding for the source's meaning. Rather than aiding the viewer's understanding of the heart of the story, the added elements dilute it. That is why this adaptation fails for me; though they are not completely deviating from the source material, their lack of understanding convolutes it, so that overall a more muddled picture forms than in the original.

Oh boy. There we go.

I suggest that those people who want to form an unbiased opinion should read one of the latest chapters and compare the frames.

The truth is that Misaki's hairstyle is 100% exactly her default hairstyle AND length of the later chapters (in the earlier chapters the mangaka went for a shorter look).

What we're having here is the classic recurring issue of anime adaptations of manga material which changed the style over the years. And - as usual, see Hayate no Gotoku, Toradora or others - J.C.Staff decides to stay consistent with the NEWER art. I'm male, so maybe I lack the eyes to appreciate the Usui art. But I didn't notice any major changes there, either.

Because character anime art _must_ be simplified compared to manga art (much less strokes), it will always look a bit "watered down". But I'd say that they managed to stay very consistent with the original. Nevertheless, truth is in the eye of the beholder.

Misaki's hairstyle might be 100% manga accurate, but it looks fugly when her face isn't. Note that the first thing I mentioned were Misaki and Usui's too narrow facial structures, which Misaki's long hair and large eyes only aggravate. The thing is, despite the point that 'anime art must be simplified from manga,' Usui/Misaki still look bad by purely anime standards. I actually don't care so much if they deviate from the manga style, so long as the characters are still recognizable, but that depends on the condition that the result actually looks good. If Misaki were to be drawn in the easy-on-the-eyes moe moe style of To Aru Kagaku no Railgun, for example, I'd probably be satisfied, even if it doesn't really correspond with the manga. So the issue with Misaki's hair isn't really about whether or not it's accurate to manga; it's about whether or not it actually looks good, which I feel it doesn't.

Art style might be a very subjective thing, so I'll try to put it this way. JC Staff's art for Usui and Misaki looks neither like their art in the manga, nor like the art of any other anime considered to have attractive character design. I don't think anybody can argue that KWMS actually looks better than any of those other animes, including (as I mentioned) other work by JC Staff themselves. Since the main characters being attractive is important to my suspension of disbelief for the story, I just find JC Staff's failure to achieve that very disappointing.

I think that ever since the anime was announced, you're trying a bit TOO hard to hate it. But man, I'm sure that people in this thread will be thrilled to hear week after wee why you so much hated what they managed to watch with enjoyment in an easygoing manner...

Would a little bit less vitriol and more calm be too much to ask for? Then I believe it would be much more fruitful and enjoyable to debate over nuances.

I'm no stranger to hating something because I want to. But that is certainly not the case with Kaichou wa Maid-sama. It is one of my absolute favourite mangas, so there's no way I could hate on it if I didn't feel it was justified. All of this is simply my genuine opinion as a fan of the manga--as for 'less vitriol' and 'more calm', I find it difficult to filter what I feel is a perfectly valid and rational perspective.

However, like I noted at the start, I'm not interested in rehashing the same point once I've made it, so you don't have to worry about a lot of this from me in the future. I have noted a lot of people saying they found the episode enjoyable, and while I quite doubt I'd feel the same way having not read the manga, I do realize that having done so has coloured my expectations. As such, aside from these few posts on my initial impressions, I will try not to interfere with anybody's enjoyment of the anime on its own terms. Further comparisons to the manga by me will only be made in defense of the source material.

[greedyisgood]

do you think it will follow the plot of the manga just like in kimi ni todoke?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by greedyisgood

do you think it will follow the plot of the manga just like in kimi ni todoke?

It's pretty faithful so far, so yeah i'd say so. As for the ending, we may see a anime original ending, though fingers crossed it would be popular enough that we see a second season in the future. For now, let's just see how it plays out.

[SwiftStrike]

A nice start, still got some funny moments
Looks like this show is something I'l actually watch this season...
What can you expect for a first episode anyway.

rivals to aim for 1st in grades+developing friendships=SA?

[Saturn Beaver]

Okay, so in order to broaden my viewing horizon I decided to give another shoujo a try, after being pleasantly entertained by Kimi ni Todoke. Still, after watching KWMS, I feel a bit unimpressed. Sure, I feel that J.C. Staff's design and animation seems fine (I can't compare it with the manga though, never reading them and probably won't since I'm not a huge fan of Shoujo art style), and the lead female protagonist seems interesting, but everything seems a bit cliche and predictable.

Now, that's not necessarily a dealbreaker, as it can still be entertaining if pulled off well, but what for me is vital for this, the romantic chemistry, is missing, mostly due to the male lead. Granted, this is only the first episode and there's a lot of room for development, but my question for the manga readers: will the lead character become more interesting? So far, he's too much like a typical shoujo love interest: super popular, handsome and smart, but cold and a bit of a jerk, showing his gentler protective side only to the female lead. Does he has anything to separate him from the standard love interest, or perhaps develop his character into something more likable?

[germanturkey]

i approve of this show. reminds me sooooooo much of Special A, which i completely adored. plus the Misaki is cute. they even look like Kei and Hikari.

[Mentar]

Only select parts, it's too long already.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

The initial stages of the manga are about Misaki's deficiencies as both maid and Kaichou. Misaki doesn't come into her own as President until late in the series, well settled in her relationship with Usui.

Er, no. She was an established maid _and_ Kaichou right off the bat, and confirmedly successful in both "jobs". The way she carries herself changes over time, and one can rightfully argue that she's become a better Prez in the end. But at the moment we're in chapter 1. And there, the nature of Misaki was established in the manga, and it is established in the anime, too.

Misaki might be about hard work and perseverence in the face of hardships, but in the opening stages of the manga, the point is that her single-mindedness creates a negative effect in both occupations.

Hold your horses, this isn't mutually exclusive. BOTH needed to be done, and both WAS done by the anime, too.

How many people got the characterization behind Misaki's "I'm half-assing everything?" Misaki's failure to live up to her responsibilities is a result of overreaching due to her own overriding prejudice.

You're TOTALLY overemphasizing her hate of men. The viewer could very easily follow that her workload went through the roof _partly_ due to prejudice (magazine confiscation), but also by her sense of justice (she accepted the criticism about the girls' magazines), by her lack of confidence in others (chewing out the treasurer and taking over his work), her competitiveness (losing to Usui academically), her strong feeling of responsibility (must provide for my family) and last but not least her pride (pushing Usui's offer of help away initially).

The difficulties she's confronted with have _alot_ of causes, and her hate of men is only one of many. It certainly shouldn't be neglected (and J.C.Staff didn't, it was worked in fairly well IMHO), but it definitely isn't THE reason for all her issues.

Usui's early relationship with her is forged through being a helping hand when it's all too much for her, and telling her to mellow out. By trying to show Misaki's determination as an inequivocal positive, the show cripples the growth this contrast highlights.

You honestly think that showing Misaki chewing out lots of people in a bitchy voice up to physical violence "shows Misaki's determination as an inequivocal positive"? During her demon moments, you felt that the viewer is supposed to feel admiration? Are you SERIOUS?

Sorry - when I read this, I can only say that J.C.Staff's interpretation and representation of Misaki comes much closer to my personal imagination of her than what you describe, which reminds me more of an extremist caricature of her.

I'm not trying to get psychological or dark or anything. The point is, in the early chapters, the emphasis on Misaki's Student Council policies is that she is extreme, not progressive or well-intentioned. We can accept Misaki's characterization because of her background and her motivation, and perhaps even find her extremism generally humourous--however, we must also clearly accept that Misaki's attitude, at that point in the story, is biased and harmful.

And who does not? Seriously, who doesn't? Do you honestly believe that the normal viewer of the anime episode looks at her and says "aww, what an all-around awesome girl, total perfection"??

Skipping...

As for being controlled, JC Staff had Misaki walk off without a word to Sakura or Shizuko, and had Shizuko interpret that as Misaki being angry. The fact that Shizuko has to interpret Misaki's bizarre behaviour for us suggests that Misaki is hiding it, i.e.controlling her emotion/reaction.

She does EXACTLY the same in the manga, of course. Walk away pissed. Seriously, all those profound differences you listed are either irrelevant details, or they don't exist in the first place. Show me one scene where you feel the anime _alters_ a trait of Misaki. Not "explained differently", but rather reverting a trait of her into the opposite. Or adding a completely new trait which wasm't there. THEN we're talking.

Fact is that J.C.Staff does NOT show her as a "controlled" character. Her outbursts (which you call "epic") which sometimes even get physically violent show that her control is near non-existent.

[Skipping some parts which would be spoiling to answer]

Misaki's hairstyle might be 100% manga accurate, but it looks fugly when her face isn't. [...] So the issue with Misaki's hair isn't really about whether or not it's accurate to manga; it's about whether or not it actually looks good, which I feel it doesn't.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder, as I said. But the vast majority of viewers (based on what's written here and on other boards) seems to agree that the J.C.Staff look makes her look _cuter_, if anything, due to the fact that her eyes are open wide in surprise much more than in the manga, where she sports a squinched look. I feel sorry for you if you really think she's "fugly". I sure don't.

I'm no stranger to hating something because I want to. But that is certainly not the case with Kaichou wa Maid-sama. It is one of my absolute favourite mangas, so there's no way I could hate on it if I didn't feel it was justified. All of this is simply my genuine opinion as a fan of the manga--as for 'less vitriol' and 'more calm', I find it difficult to filter what I feel is a perfectly valid and rational perspective.

I know that you're male, but your attitude reminds me of the old saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". You obviously have such strong views about the original material, such a strong emotional investment, that you are lashing out at the J.C.Staff version in a really extreme form. Your burning resentment about them rejecting YOUR interpretation of the material was dripping out of your first long post, just like it did before this show even started (see earlier posts of yours before first airing).

How about taking a deeeeeeep breath and considering it a positive sign that most people posting in here seemed to have enjoyed the show just fine all the shortcomings perceived by you notwithstanding? Let's give them a few more episodes before we burn them on the stake, okay?

[feRfe]

wut ppl mad for
かわいいです：３

[germanturkey]

upon further analysis, this IS Special A. which is great news for me.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver

Granted, this is only the first episode and there's a lot of room for development, but my question for the manga readers: will the lead character become more interesting? So far, he's too much like a typical shoujo love interest: super popular, handsome and smart, but cold and a bit of a jerk, showing his gentler protective side only to the female lead. Does he has anything to separate him from the standard love interest, or perhaps develop his character into something more likable?

IMO, no. Either you start off liking Usui or you never like him, it seems to me from my own opinions and the opinions of both fans and detractors.

If anything

Spoiler for impossibly vague manga spoilers:

he gets worse. He's pretty much perfect at anything he puts his mind to, and always knows exactly what to do.

[Mentar]

I begin to see where musouka nurtures her antipathy from. And yes, I can see that if you're sensitive to that, you can get to dislike him.

Fairness dictates to note, however, that when we get into Usui's personal arc and get to learn more about his background (chapters 40+), things do develop quite a bit.

[kanon78]

Originally Posted by Mentar

No idea why you hate Usui so much
What are you basing this on? Manga knowledge, and if so, how far? I guess we have to agree to disagree again. Compared to the pointless antics in Special A (which I also enjoyed for quite a while, but which eventually turned me off due to the complete lack of romantic chemistry between the leads - I'm blaming Hikari), KWMS has one of the most interesting gradual developments I've read in the last few years. Which is enough for me.And besides, Misaki is fun

Originally Posted by Mentar

...From the aspect of gradual romantic development, an exemplary show. Strong start, a slightly lackluster middle, and then really beginning to kick off in the latest characters.

Originally Posted by musouka

I've read a large chunk of the manga because someone said many of the things Mentar did concerning the couple. I was unimpressed with the romance especially.

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver

..but my question for the manga readers: will the lead character become more interesting? So far, he's too much like a typical shoujo love interest: super popular, handsome and smart, but cold and a bit of a jerk, showing his gentler protective side only to the female lead. Does he has anything to separate him from the standard love interest, or perhaps develop his character into something more likable?

Kaichou Wa Maid Sama is all about UsuixMisaki.
If you don't like this couple or either one of them you (most likely) won't be enjoying KWMS (for the romance), especially if you fail to see the romance in the first place between Usui and Misaki (which I believe is one of the best couples and romances I've seen in manga&anime on the level of chemistry and interaction between each other).
And looking at the op and ed (without spoiling from the manga) it seems that the “best romantic” scenes are included in this anime adaptation.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Only select parts, it's too long already.

Er, no. She was an established maid _and_ Kaichou right off the bat, and confirmedly successful in both "jobs". The way she carries herself changes over time, and one can rightfully argue that she's become a better Prez in the end. But at the moment we're in chapter 1. And there, the nature of Misaki was established in the manga, and it is established in the anime, too.

Slightly spoilerish for future developments:

Spoiler:

In the first episode, Misaki notes herself "I'm still not used to this". Later on in the series, Satsuki confesses 'I was a bit worried about her in the beginning'. Misaki might be competent, as both maid and President, but she nevertheless can't be called 'successful' if her personality clashes with getting the job done. Misaki's development and growth into her roles as both maid and President is a key component of the manga's content--especially in the early stages.

'Energy and dedication' is not yet a proper way to describe Misaki: as is made clearly evident in the first chapter, Misaki's current motivations in her role as President are only disgust and frustration (however sympathetic that disgust/frustration might be to the audience), while her present motivation for her job as a maid is nothing more than plain necessity. Rather than playing up how inspired and determined Misaki is as a president, the opening scene should have focused on the humour of the extremity of Misaki's negative reaction.

(For example, the bgm completely smothered the joke with the 'model student'. Energy and dedication towards what? Towards making every guy look like that? That's cognitive dissonance at its worst. If the music weren't being all upbeat and inspired-sounding, if it weren't asking us to take Misaki's efforts as a good and serious thing, we could look at the model Misaki was aiming for, see that it was going too far, and actually laugh. 1:1 manga conversion? Maybe, but the music clearly fails to convey the spirit.)

Hold your horses, this isn't mutually exclusive. BOTH needed to be done, and both WAS done by the anime, too.

Why do both need to be done? The positive effects of Misaki's energy and spirit were not emphasized in the manga. What the manga did was set up a sympathetic motivation, demonstrate in an exaggerated and humourous manner how Misaki became an extraordinary person because of it, and then, still humourously, show clearly that Misaki was going too far. Misaki's admirable energy and dedication were not the focus; rather, the points of emphasis were Misaki's demonic strength/potency and her extremism.

You're TOTALLY overemphasizing her hate of men. The viewer could very easily follow that her workload went through the roof _partly_ due to prejudice (magazine confiscation), but also by her sense of justice (she accepted the criticism about the girls' magazines), by her lack of confidence in others (chewing out the treasurer and taking over his work), her competitiveness (losing to Usui academically), her strong feeling of responsibility (must provide for my family) and last but not least her pride (pushing Usui's offer of help away initially).

The difficulties she's confronted with have _alot_ of causes, and her hate of men is only one of many. It certainly shouldn't be neglected (and J.C.Staff didn't, it was worked in fairly well IMHO), but it definitely isn't THE reason for all her issues.

4/6 of those fall under prejudice towards males. Misaki's lack of confidence in her (male) underlings, her competitiveness towards Usui, and her pride in pushing him away, are all further extensions of her poor impression of men.

But that's not the point. The one cause of all Misaki's troubles is that Misaki is taking on all these roles/responsibilities not because she's genuinely interested in them, but for some other purpose. Misaki became President in order to reform the guys, and she became a maid to support her family. The roles of President and maid have no meaning to her beyond that--as such, it is her lack of genuine interest and appreciation for those duties that result in her 'half-assing everything'.

What's the moral? Misaki's energy and dedication to reforming the guys and supporting her family are a bad thing. Wanting to reform the guys and support her family aren't bad in themselves, but as Usui comes to realize, Misaki needs to mellow out.

You honestly think that showing Misaki chewing out lots of people in a bitchy voice up to physical violence "shows Misaki's determination as an inequivocal positive"? During her demon moments, you felt that the viewer is supposed to feel admiration? Are you SERIOUS?

Sorry - when I read this, I can only say that J.C.Staff's interpretation and representation of Misaki comes much closer to my personal imagination of her than what you describe, which reminds me more of an extremist caricature of her.

And who does not? Seriously, who doesn't? Do you honestly believe that the normal viewer of the anime episode looks at her and says "aww, what an all-around awesome girl, total perfection"??

No, actually, my problem is I can't even remember them. That's how little 'umph' JC Staff's adaptation added to those scenes. By not fully emphasizing Misaki's power in the moments Misaki becomes a metaphorical demon, she comes off as pretty much a normal girl. Same with the chewing people out. You ask me if other viewers see Misaki as perfect--I'm asking if she made much of an impression at all. JC Staff's version of Misaki simply lacks punch--and what they needed to do to give it to her, was to show her full strength acting for both good and ill, forgiving her moments of ill with memorable humour.

Why is my vision of Misaki a caricature? Having faults doesn't mean Misaki can't be sympathetic, even extreme ones. My point is that I want Misaki to come off as a potent character, multifaceted with constrasting strengths. The presence of her demon aura versus the gentleness of her tender appreciation of the girls. The rash, stubborn roughness of her normal self versus her grace and beauty as maid and woman. The contrast makes Misaki more memorable. The 'sameness' of JC Staffs portrait of Misaki across all her faces, the normality, is what I'm disappointed with. By showing Misaki as an terrifying demon whose oppression of the guys is clearly negative, the revelation of her true self, who so tenderly cares for the girls, would have been all the more appealing.

She does EXACTLY the same in the manga, of course. Walk away pissed. Seriously, all those profound differences you listed are either irrelevant details, or they don't exist in the first place. Show me one scene where you feel the anime _alters_ a trait of Misaki. Not "explained differently", but rather reverting a trait of her into the opposite. Or adding a completely new trait which wasm't there. THEN we're talking.

Fact is that J.C.Staff does NOT show her as a "controlled" character. Her outbursts (which you call "epic") which sometimes even get physically violent show that her control is near non-existent.

I call Misaki's aura in the manga epic. But yes, this is in line with me disliking Misaki's 'controlled' behaviour in the anime.

I've pointed out the scene where JC Staff 'altered' Misaki already: walking away from her friends silently. Even pissed, even surprised, Misaki doesn't do that to anybody. The fact that Misaki doesn't tell them where she's going suggests that she doesn't have somewhere in mind, which is OOC for her because Misaki works out her anger by being productive. In the manga Misaki is returning to class. In the anime she's avoiding her friends.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder, as I said. But the vast majority of viewers (based on what's written here and on other boards) seems to agree that the J.C.Staff look makes her look _cuter_, if anything, due to the fact that her eyes are open wide in surprise much more than in the manga, where she sports a squinched look. I feel sorry for you if you really think she's "fugly". I sure don't.

? I haven't seen one person say that the anime's art is superior to the manga. There are plenty of comments to the effect that Misaki is cute--however, the majority of these won't have seen the manga for comparison. As for those who have, even if they think the anime art is 'cute', I have yet to see anyone actually say that it's an improvement.

As blind as the idea that the anime art looks better than the manga might be to me, that isn't really what I'm asking. I'm asking whether people find Misaki cute compared to characters from other anime; To Aru Kagaku no Railgun for example. Do people really find Misaki as cute as the characters from JC Staff's previous work? They even had a maid episode for comparison. Frankly, for me the unattractiveness of the art in comparison is as plain as day.

I know that you're male, but your attitude reminds me of the old saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". You obviously have such strong views about the original material, such a strong emotional investment, that you are lashing out at the J.C.Staff version in a really extreme form. Your burning resentment about them rejecting YOUR interpretation of the material was dripping out of your first long post, just like it did before this show even started (see earlier posts of yours before first airing).

How about taking a deeeeeeep breath and considering it a positive sign that most people posting in here seemed to have enjoyed the show just fine all the shortcomings perceived by you notwithstanding? Let's give them a few more episodes before we burn them on the stake, okay?

You can call it my 'interpretation', but to me it's 'my interpretation of the author's narrative intention'--and I really do not think there is much to miss with regards to that. Kaichou wa Maid-sama isn't a mystery or a mindfuck, and neither is it very allegorical, so I don't think there should be any problems for an average reader to understand the story. I've reread the manga recently, so maybe it's fresher in my mind than yours, but I'm going to repeat my statement and call it objective: Misaki's early developments are all about growing into her roles as maid and President--fixing her faults, learning to look beyond her perspective, and embracing her roles for reasons beyond her motivations for initially taking them. Similarly, Usui's initial interest in Misaki is built on the contrast between her man-terrorizing behaviour at school and all her other faces, which he happens to discover by chance. I think this can be objectively understood from the story. Therefore, what the anime should be trying to do is making this blatantly apparent to the viewers. People have said they enjoyed the episode, but how many actually understood what happened? None of your responses to my criticisms have engaged the story on this level--you say 'so and so made the story more believable', or 'so and so didn't really alter anything', but the point is that none of these 'enhancements' have made the story's intentions any more clear or meaningful. And neither has the execution in general.

As such, my disappointment is not so much about the anime refuting my 'interpretation' so much as it has obfuscated the story of the manga itself. While I'm seeing plenty of short 'that was good' comments in this thread, various bits of criticism have already shown up which wouldn't be asked by someone who understood the manga. Although I would like and will try to defend the story, it is the anime that has failed to communicate it, and I won't try to pretend that I'm not disappointed by this. I'm glad that the anime is entertaining enough for many people on its own, and that others are willing to muddle through the anime's messages to get to the heart of the script that remains. However, I stand firm that as an adaptation, this doesn't do the manga justice.

edit: I realize this is too long. My main points are all collected in these last two paragraphs, so if you have any points of contention, I'd appreciate it if you exposit them in the context of the points made there.