High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Tyler.R]

Originally Posted by XFire

Fenrir's power isn't reliant on Loki's.

Yes, he was. Vali's says his power reaches the gods, and Son agrees. And yes, it being a brute force attack matters. Vali didn't hax him to death, he crushed him with raw power.

God-class is above Maou-class. It's a classification of power named after them, it makes no sense for the majority or even a portion of them to be below the power level named for them.

And again, there is no average god. They all have different abilities and authorities, there is no baseline for judging them.

You're right Fenrir's power is not reliant on Loki's but creating him is a feat that indicates his power and so was his ability to control him.

The quote you are referring to is from when the DxD team was formed not training and it was specifically stated that he could only reach the gods for a matter of seconds or one maybe two attacks. Speaking of attacks Vali's compression divider is a power up version of his half dimension in he did in fact hax him to death.

God class is a classification of power that includes all gods that is a fact we can agree on. The misconception that that it means above Maou class stems form the fact that we have only seen gods who are above Maou class. However that does not mean all gods are above Maou class. And if I am right that there are gods who are weaker then Maou class it does not mean they are not god class it just mean that god class includes a larger number of power levels.

If there was no baseline for judging gods as you claim then all gods would be equal but we know that is not the case because Shiva is considered the strongest. And if one is considered the strongest one must also be considered the weakest. As for average gods they would be the gods who are among the largest group of gods with similar levels of power.

[Tyler.R]

Originally Posted by Parry999

It was a generic fire ball. He then confirmed his maou class in power.

You are right he is Maou class in terms of power although I doubt he used a Maou class attack to destroy a rock that Issei was hiding behind

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

In what volume is that?

Zero

Tsufaame was so strong ultimate-class devils couldn't hurt her lol. I think Katarea father or mother is still out there since half a century past from the cival war and volume 4.

[Lucidrago]

Well here's how the ranks probably go:

Above Ultimate-class devil(bordering on Maou-class but not there yet): 4th-10th rankers of the Rating Game(besides Rudiger), Tannin, Fafnir, Midgardsomir, Yu-Long, Azazel, Barakiel, Yasaka

Maou-class or above Maou-class: Serafall Leviathan, Falbium Asmodeus, Grayfia Lucifuge, Diehauser Belial, Issei Hyoudou(CCQ), Sairaorg Bael(BxB), Vali Lucifer(BxB), Cao Cao, Dulio Gesualdo, Tobio Ikuse, Tiamat, Sonneillon, Gresil, Vasco Strada

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Tyler.R

You're right Fenrir's power is not reliant on Loki's but creating him is a feat that indicates his power and so was his ability to control him.

The quote you are referring to is from when the DxD team was formed not training and it was specifically stated that he could only reach the gods for a matter of seconds or one maybe two attacks. Speaking of attacks Vali's compression divider is a power up version of his half dimension in he did in fact hax him to death.

God class is a classification of power that includes all gods that is a fact we can agree on. The misconception that that it means above Maou class stems form the fact that we have only seen gods who are above Maou class. However that does not mean all gods are above Maou class. And if I am right that there are gods who are weaker then Maou class it does not mean they are not god class it just mean that god class includes a larger number of power levels.

If there was no baseline for judging gods as you claim then all gods would be equal but we know that is not the case because Shiva is considered the strongest. And if one is considered the strongest one must also be considered the weakest. As for average gods they would be the gods who are among the largest group of gods with similar levels of power.

No? Creating something doesn't inherently make you as strong as your creation.

Not helping your case, since even EJOD, which obliterated the same Grim Reaper that matched Azazel in a single attack, is only barely on the level of a god. And Compression Divider isn't hax, it literally crushes the enemy. Crom broke through it via raw strength.

No, it doesn't. The only misconception is yours, and as stated neither Loki nor Artemis were stated to be powerful among the Gods. For that matter, EJOD (which surpassed Maou-class) can only barely reach the level of the gods. Not God-class, gods. It was not referring to the strongest gods or the higher end gods, just gods in general. We've not only not seen any gods below Maou-class, the term God-class has consistently been used to indicate a superior level of power to Maou-class. There's nothing indicating the existence of these bizarrely weaker gods.

I don't think you know what baseline is, and the idea that the existence of the strongest implies the existence of the weakest is heavily flawed. Shiva is abnormal and that sets him apart. It in no way indicates the existence of an opposite number who is abnormally weak. And the "average god" doesn't exist. There is no fixed power setting among them. That being said, "god" in general is used multiple times, including in the quote about Vali, to indicate a level superior to Maou-class.

Gods and the term "God-class" have always been used to refer to beings of superior power to Maou-class fighters. There's zero indication Loki is exceptionally powerful besides just being a god, same for Artemis, EJOD is barely at the level of a god (note again, just "a god" not a particularly powerful one) despite possessing far more power than a Maou.

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

@Kiiro You mean Indra? Indra mentioned Rias battle against Fenrir even though she lost and he didn't mention Shooting Star who actually blew gods away, yet he lost to Sairaorg. He didn't need to mention Diehauser when it's already known Diehauser still defeated gods.

Balor Rias battle power is above Maou class but not God class however her unique abilities can allow her to fight God class fighters. So far the only being that Balor Rias defeated was Grayfia. Balor Rias is not at the level of a Super Devil.

Also Heavenly Dragon class is not considered transcendent among dragons because there was never a cap to how strong dragons are besides the Dragon gods, who are referred to as the strongest.

It doesnt matter if he did not mention some people, what it matters is that he mentioned Rias as being able to equal and fight Gods. Do go around it, the quote is clear and real.

This is not up to debate anymore. Indra, a God himself said it. Which means that being above Satan Class, it is already God Class.

About Heavenly Dragon Class:

<<So my opponent is you, Sekiryuutei. This is truly a great honour.>>

“Yo — Apophis-san. You’re supposed to be one of the strongest Evil Dragons, right?”

<<Fufufu, at the very least, IÂ’m a lot stronger than that barbaric Grendel.>>

…Well, talking this way made him really easy to understand. In other words, he was as strong as a Super Devil[61]. Well, that’s something that I understood already. After all, he was an Evil Dragon on par with Crom Cruach. I didn’t answer and nor did I have a reply as I readied my stance — and then charged towards him in a straight line! The first to strike gets the upper hand! Although I’m not like Xenovia, it’s better to attack from the front myself, instead of waiting for the opponent to prepare their first move! Lately, the opponents that I’ve fought against have been monsters that use difficult techniques, so just the thought of waiting for them to use those is terrifying!

From Volume 21, the "as strong as a super devil" is not literal, Super Devil also refers as a transcendent being.

Originally Posted by Tyler.R

My theory that the lowest tier of god class is equal to ultimate class stems from the fact that all the gods are god class even the weakest god (who ever that may be) and all the gods we have been given an idea of there power are equal to or stronger than Maou class and we have only seen gods who are considered to be strong even for a god. Which means we have not seen gods that are considered average or weak even for gods. So if the strongest are considered Maou or above the the average will be considered Maou or below and the weakest will be considered ultimate or above. Keep in mind this is all just a theory and if anyone would like to give there opinions on it I would be more then happy to take there arguments into account. I just ask that you please be respectful.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

If that was the case you would have to put most of Issei's and Rias' team at either two bishops, two knights, two rooks, or 8 pawns. Because if you're saying Ultimate-class devils are equal to god-class beings then that would make most of the individuals on those teams listed above have the same tournament value as gods and god-class beings.

Most gods aren't accustomed to combat so it would make sense that Ultimate-class devils and Maou-class devils could fight them without possessing all the hax said god-class being has if the god-class being is not used to combat.

That is your opinion, as Lucidrago mentioned, if Gods were as weak as an ultimate class tier, then a lot of devils will need many more devil pieces for the rating games.

Gods have better aura and better physical power, some are just fighters overall and are like High Class devils who trust their power blindly.

Originally Posted by XFire

Tanin is stated to be Maou-class in his intro, it's not really up for debate. If you're talking about the rankings, he's retired now.

The problem is that it is lol. Who said he was on that tier? Kiba and Tannin never said that he was a Satan Class, they said that some people mention that Tannin has power.

It really is not confirmed.

Read this:

Volume 5:

“Tannin became a devil, so the [Six Great Dragon Kings] became the [Five Great Dragon Kings]. Even among the current reincarnated devils, he is ultimate-class. A highest grade devil.”

Here it is said he is just Ultimate Class tier as official. Yet:

Spoiler:

“It’s impossible! You’re too strong! Could you, be even stronger than Vali!?”

“Well, I have often been said to be Maou-class in terms of pure power.”

See! YouÂ’re a monster! WhatÂ’s with the Maou-class talk!? Why am I trying to survive on a mountain with a Maou-class dragon!?

People "said" he has Satan Class power, this is a vague statement. But we still have these statements:

Volume 7

Spoiler:

“I..Idiot! He is the Ultimate-class devil Tannin-sama! To call him an o…o..oldman!”

WhatÂ’s wrong with SajiÂ…? I certainly do think old-man Tannin is great as well.

Saji then says it while pointing his finger at me.

“Ultimate-class devils are those that only the chosen ones can become in the Underworld. Add to that, the current top 10 rankers in the Rating Game are all Ultimate-class devils. The amount of contribution, the results in the game, your ability, you can finally reach that rank when you receive the best estimate value in all of those areas. For devils, it is the best ranking there is.”

Top 10 of the rating games are confirmed at least Ultimate Class tier and Tannin once again mentioned as a Ultimate Class tier. And then it is confirmed that only the top 3 are indeed Satan Class tier:

Volume 10

Spoiler:

-Emperor, Belial.

Emperor huh. ThatÂ’s an amazing title for someone who isnÂ’t a Maou. Kiba speaks while continuing his work.

“Rankings 20 and below are said to have a power on a totally different level, and if you are in Top-10, you would even be called a Hero. Among them, ranks 5 and above are said to be unmovable. They have been standing in the top positions where they haven't moved their ranks for a long time. Especially the 3rd ranked Bedeze Abaddon, the 2nd ranked Roygun Belphegor, and the 1st ranked Diehauser Belial, they are Ultimate-class devils among Ultimate-class devils who have the power equal to the current Maou. Though, all three of them are said to not take any actions unless a large scale War were to happen. They have been researched due to the game’s traits, and they are spoken well of by others. They are called the ‘results’ born due to many matches.”

The results made from the Game itself-. So it means they are insanely strong devils-. Wait! They have the power equal to the current-Maou!? Are guys like them allowed to participate in the Game!?

Well, actually, it wonÂ’t be weird. Old-man Tannin is also an Ultimate-class devil, and I heard that he participated in the Game before, and that he has been within the Top-10. He hasnÂ’t retired, but I heard that right now he wants to focus on training young dragons instead of the Rating Game.

Then we know for a fact that Tannin is equal to Rudiger, ranked in the position 7 of the rating games:

Volume 23

Spoiler:

Ever since he started participating in the Rating Games, he immediately began to upset many higher ranked teams, and in just a few years he had reached the top ten. Father once had a match with him…his team was very difficult to face.”

Â…I see, Tannin-ossan had also said that he was a difficult opponent. Speaking of which, Tannin-ossan was not participating in this tournament.

“Did ossan win?”

Hearing me ask that, Bova answered me seemingly ashamed

“…Although he has won on some occasions, most of them were losses. When he spoke about the game, father’s bitter expression touched me deeply.”

Yeah, Tannin is strong but still not a Satan Class tier, his power is just said to be, not confirmed which means he is very near it.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Actually Tannin's in a semi-retired state and took some time off the Rating Games to focus on raising young dragons.

When Thanatos commented on Issei's time limit, he commented that god-class beings could counter it. Then he said that even Maou-class beings could counter it implying that god-class is above Maou-class.

In Volume 4, Katarea boosted her power to Maou-class I believe with Ophis' snake and just made Azazel's attacks disappear by just waving her hand to the side. Yet when Azazel used the Pantsu Armor, he overwhelmed Katarea even with the snake. And then in Volume 11, he fought Pluto and came even with him which may imply that Pluto is above a Maou-class being.

Again I just think a lot of god-class beings are powerful and have very hax-like powers. But most aren't experienced or have very little experience when it comes to combat. Which may allow an Ultimate-class devil or a Maou-class devil with lots of combat experience take such gods on.

For example, Issei and Vali had no problem taking on Loki and his attacks. It was really just Fenrir, Fenrir's sons, and the mass-produced Midgardsomirs that were the problem. But they still needed something powerful enough to be able to defeat Loki, a god. That's why Issei received the replica Mjolnir to finish Loki off.

It seems like gods are nearly impossible to kill in this series. For example, Nyx was hit by both Infinity Blaster and Ddraig's Scorching Flames and while she was defeated with that she wasn't killed.

Well Issei and Vali did have trouble with Loki and he was not very serious. Just a mere touch of Loki attacks could break Issei's armour with ease.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Well here's how the ranks probably go:

Above Ultimate-class devil(bordering on Maou-class but not there yet): 4th-10th rankers of the Rating Game(besides Rudiger), Tannin, Fafnir, Midgardsomir, Yu-Long, Azazel, Barakiel, Yasaka

Maou-class or above Maou-class: Serafall Leviathan, Falbium Asmodeus, Grayfia Lucifuge, Diehauser Belial, Issei Hyoudou(CCQ), Sairaorg Bael(BxB), Vali Lucifer(BxB), Cao Cao, Dulio Gesualdo, Tobio Ikuse, Tiamat, Sonneillon, Gresil, Vasco Strada

Yeah, that is how it is for real.

Originally Posted by XFire

No? Creating something doesn't inherently make you as strong as your creation.

Not helping your case, since even EJOD, which obliterated the same Grim Reaper that matched Azazel in a single attack, is only barely on the level of a god. And Compression Divider isn't hax, it literally crushes the enemy. Crom broke through it via raw strength.

No, it doesn't. The only misconception is yours, and as stated neither Loki nor Artemis were stated to be powerful among the Gods. For that matter, EJOD (which surpassed Maou-class) can only barely reach the level of the gods. Not God-class, gods. It was not referring to the strongest gods or the higher end gods, just gods in general. We've not only not seen any gods below Maou-class, the term God-class has consistently been used to indicate a superior level of power to Maou-class. There's nothing indicating the existence of these bizarrely weaker gods.

I don't think you know what baseline is, and the idea that the existence of the strongest implies the existence of the weakest is heavily flawed. Shiva is abnormal and that sets him apart. It in no way indicates the existence of an opposite number who is abnormally weak. And the "average god" doesn't exist. There is no fixed power setting among them. That being said, "god" in general is used multiple times, including in the quote about Vali, to indicate a level superior to Maou-class.

Gods and the term "God-class" have always been used to refer to beings of superior power to Maou-class fighters. There's zero indication Loki is exceptionally powerful besides just being a god, same for Artemis, EJOD is barely at the level of a god (note again, just "a god" not a particularly powerful one) despite possessing far more power than a Maou.

Well, there is battle gods and there isnt. Loki is a battle god for sure. So yeah, he is very strong.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Well here's how the ranks probably go:

Above Ultimate-class devil(bordering on Maou-class but not there yet): 4th-10th rankers of the Rating Game(besides Rudiger), Tannin, Fafnir, Midgardsomir, Yu-Long, Azazel, Barakiel, Yasaka

Maou-class or above Maou-class: Serafall Leviathan, Falbium Asmodeus, Grayfia Lucifuge, Diehauser Belial, Issei Hyoudou(CCQ), Sairaorg Bael(BxB), Vali Lucifer(BxB), Cao Cao, Dulio Gesualdo, Tobio Ikuse, Tiamat, Sonneillon, Gresil, Vasco Strada

At what point has it been said that yasaka is in class maou? I know you can be happy to be semi confirmed in the harem but not to give it more level than it has, which is the ultimate class like most dragon kings (less tiamat and current fafnir)

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by Parry999

Zero Tsufaame was so strong ultimate-class devils couldn't hurt her lol. I think Katarea father or mother is still out there since half a century past from the cival war and volume 4.

Is the volume already translated?

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

Is the volume already translated?

Not yet unfortunately it's currently more interesting then the tournament.

[Blazor 98]

@Kiiro94 Indra was pointing out about Rias and Vali in particular because he was talking about how crazy the young generation was. Hence why he even mentioned Issei. He didn't mentioned Diehuaser defeating gods despite being Maou class because he's not part of the young generation. This doesn't mean he was talking about her being God class.

He said Apophis was as strong as a Super Devil but that's it. Super Devil is called "transcendent" because they transcend the realms of devils not in general. A Dragon being as strong as a Super Devil don't mean dragons has reached a transcendent state among their kind because the strongest class among Dragon is Dragon God status.

Ddraig, Albion, Crom, Apophis and Azi Dahaka all reached Heavenly Dragon class just through training and fighting. However devils who reach the level of a Super Devil are either born with the power like Rizevim, Verrine, Ajuka and Baalberith or goes through a mutation like Sirzech.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by godz

At what point has it been said that yasaka is in class maou? I know you can be happy to be semi confirmed in the harem but not to give it more level than it has, which is the ultimate class like most dragon kings (less tiamat and current fafnir)

Huh he said near and she probably is after defeating a Bandersnatch.

[Lucidrago]

Well the Kyuubi is said to be at the level of Ultimate-class devils. And it seems Saji in his Vritra Promotion was having a hard time with her. And Yu-Long had to come assist.

I just made an assumption with Yasaka.

But those were the ones that I would say are stronger than the average Ultimate-class devil and are close to Maou-class. And above Maou-class most likely means stronger than the original Maou.

[B214]

Originally Posted by XFire

God-class is above Maou-class. It's a classification of power named after them, it makes no sense for the majority or even a portion of them to be below the power level named for them.

Unless you have a quote or statement from the author, it's best not to say things like this.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by B214

Unless you have a quote or statement from the author, it's best not to say things like this.

Did you accidentally quote too much or are you actually disputing that "God-class" is a classification of power that is named for the gods?

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Lord Kai

Would say Kiba is overall Heavenly Dragon class because his speed was superior to Issei's?

You didn't answer my question, what does Kiba's speed compared to Issei have to do with Tannin power being maou class?

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

You didn't answer my question, what does Kiba's speed compared to Issei have to do with Tannin power being maou class?

What he's saying is Tannin is not Maou class just because one aspect of him is Maou class.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

What he's saying is Tannin is not Maou class just because one aspect of him is Maou class.

I know what he's saying, the question I ask still was not answered, is what I'M saying. I ask how does he know Tannin is only Maou class in one aspect. We haven't seen Tannin in enough fights to say overall he not Maou level in other aspects. Once again I will ask what other metrics can you go by that we have seen to compare to say he is not at Maou level in other aspects?

[B214]

Originally Posted by XFire

Did you accidentally quote too much or are you actually disputing that "God-class" is a classification of power that is named for the gods?

I'm talking about this section.

God-class is above Maou-class.

Unless you have prove from the author that this is true, i wouldn't advise using such strong statement, especially since he may alter these thing later on the story.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by B214

I'm talking about this section.

God-class is above Maou-class.

Unless you have prove from the author that this is true, i wouldn't advise using such strong statement, especially since he may alter these thing later on the story.

CxC is Maou-class.

DxD is Transcendental class

From Shin vol 1...

And their power was said to be Transcendental-class, which was equal to a God’s

Plain enough?

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

CxC is Maou-class.

DxD is Transcendental class

From Shin vol 1...



Plain enough?

But the gap between Maou class and Transcendent class is massive. The gap between Maou class and "above" Maou class is not really large.