2013-05-05, 16:17 | Link #81 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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What is so special about the blades? And why can't you make special arrow heads? Regular long bow arrows can pierce plate armor. I don't see how it cannot pierce giant's neck if you are able to cut it. The force of penetration on an arrow head far exceeds that of swinging blade, special or not.
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2013-05-05, 19:57 | Link #84 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Use axe against plate mail and you can't penetrate either. Axe can't even go through chain mail easily. Arrows have no such problem. Unless the blade is made some special material with special tech, i don't see how arrows won't work where blades would. And even if it is, use the same tech and material on arrow heads is all you need. Grapeshot is equivalent of 1 arrow. 1 arrow may not be lethal, 100 would be, or at least it is more damage then simply cutting in melee range.
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2013-05-05, 20:00 | Link #85 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere at Earth
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Engaging at close distance is very risky and unpredictable behavior moves.
Delivering heavy sniper rifle against the enemy giant target, which cannot be engaged successfully because of range, location, fleeting nature and visibility. |
2013-05-05, 20:05 | Link #86 |
Onee!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Auckland, NZ
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The biggest problem here is that the Titan's weak spot isn't like some sort of 'hit it and it dies' thing. One arrow just won't do jack. And one person fires one arrow a time. Sure you could have hundreds firing, but remember: they need to be up close to be accurate, and if you have so many focusing on one Titan what about the hundreds of others rampaging through the place? Melee at least gives the potential for one person to take out one Titan. With such puny ranged weapons you will need far too many people vs one Titan for it to be feasible. All while they're being targeted by other Titans. How well can you aim and shoot knowing that a hand might reach out and grab you any second?
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2013-05-05, 23:46 | Link #87 | |
Wolf in Sheep's Clothing
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Orange Road
Age: 34
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not in this case because the speed advantage arrow has is covered by 3D Maneuvers gear In normal condition i.e. people swinging a blade and the other shooting an arrow, you might be able to argue that arrow has more penetration power to do so, but let's refresh your memory from scenes from episode 2 in episode 2, Jean & Eren specifically said that they weren't able to cut deep enough (especially if you compare those to what Mikasa did) Momentum = Mass*Velocity Eren and Jean weigh around 55-60Kg, arrow probably only weigh less than 1 -2Kg and I highly doubt it will go around 50times faster than 3D Maneuvers gear to achieve the required momentum and penetrate deep enough through Titan skin (not to mention they also swing their hand/blade as hard as they could before hitting the neck part which increase the momentum tremendously) Code:
Soldier = 50kg Speed = 5m/s Momentum = 250 kg m/s + the swing power (differs from person to person) arrow = 1kg Speed = 5m/s Momentum = 5 kg m/s + none (5/250)*100 = 2% hence assuming arrow and 3D gear have the same speed, arrow will only deal 2% damage (max) of what swinging blade could achieve *all the number above just an assumption to prove my point It will also lose even more power compared to just aim straight to the target. and the problem here is not just dealing enough damage but dealing deep enough damage. and assuming your method is working, the problem appears 100 years after peaceful era of humanity without any significant attack of "normal" titan behind the wall where 60m Colossus Titan (that can appear & disappear and generating some sort of steam enough to repel Eren and his 3D Maneuvers gear let alone an arrow) and armored titan (which could repel a goddamn cannonball so an arrow is not so much a threat is it?) suddenly appeared and destroy their peaceful day
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2013-05-06, 05:06 | Link #89 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
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So after that debarcle of an attack in Episode 5 I think they really need better tactics.
Maybe if one human distracts a titan while another human attacks its neck from behind. So set it up so its like 2 humans per titan. The human being the distraction could just move around or maybe throw smoke bombs. And what about using that wire in the 3dgear to trip them up or tie up their feet? |
2013-05-06, 05:27 | Link #90 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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^ I don't know, in ep 5 they were taken by surprise many times. That's probably a big problem in urban areas, since not every titan is enormous and can be noticed at +50m. What if another titan caught the distraction or the attacker?
If you assume nothing unexpected happens and have 2 humans against a titan, I don't think tactics matter that much since the humans will move much faster than the titan and reach the nape easily. In reality, that doesn't happen. |
2013-05-06, 06:12 | Link #91 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Yeah, archers could probably accomplish at least as much as they're doing now with the swords and 3DGs. If there was a bunch of archers on the walls, they could get free potshots on the necks of titans that get through.
Whether an arrow does more damage than a sword stab is a futile discussion when the author already admits to all kinds of troll physics, so I won't get into that. The cannons are at least a little bit effective when aimed at the enemy's face. They make more sense as a weapon of choice for a civilization that placed absolute faith in their walls. Archers and especially mounted archers, not so much.
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2013-05-06, 06:27 | Link #92 |
Art Block Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2007
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So you are suggesting that they stationed a team at the gate and try not to exhaust the ammunition nor get spotted?
It *could* work, but only at the base. Not to mention there's not much open windows for them to shoot from. This is also assuming that there won't be intelligent titans who spots the trend and will try to take down the archers either.
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2013-05-06, 07:04 | Link #93 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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And last I know, arrows can only pierce through something, not cut some huge junk of meat out. Also, the problem is surely not the 3D Gear, it's the people using it Spoiler for manga spoiler, I guess, even though only minor:
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2013-05-06, 07:16 | Link #94 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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You won't be able to do stuff with arrows and zero mobility, the titans are extremely numerous and once they enter the city they WILL catch you off-guard, especially if you're standing.
The titans can run, jump and tear buildings down, they aren't Romero zombies. And good luck shooting arrows from up the 50m wall and hoping that's enough to clear the titans off without running out of ammo. |
2013-05-06, 07:21 | Link #95 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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What's with this obsession about arrows. Guns > arrows. They have guns and they still don't use it because in this setting, swords are more effective. Honestly, discussion about why humans do not invent highly accurate armor piercing guns/cannons will make more sense compared to some people's obsession about arrows.
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2013-05-06, 07:34 | Link #96 |
I never hid my hurts.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Where the wild things are--Hell.
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There's this one thing about the wall that I've had a hard time understanding so far: with the Titans roaming around how did the humans before the events of our story get the time to build a wall that was, what 50+ meters tall and wide enough to easily hold over 250k people and their homes(It was said that was how many people were sacrificed so the inner wall wouldn't go hungry)?
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2013-05-06, 07:39 | Link #97 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Between a dragon(China) and a kangaroo(Australia)
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unless you wanna read the manga though hopefully the series will have an ova on how the great wall was built xD Also guys have you ever heard of an HE round or Hollow point bullet
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2013-05-06, 08:51 | Link #98 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Safe from the BETA
Age: 36
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Respoting on relevant thread:
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We only know more or less where it is, so, that reduces your idea to explosive arrows only. Also, blades have far more momentum than arrows. It's like comparing a guillotine vs arrow when it comes to beheading humans. Quote:
On explosive arrows: I told you before, we don't know if they have the chemical knowledge to develop lightweight/very stable/portable/highly-volatile/impermeable explosives like C4. You are assuming too much. They have gunpodwer tech, but the amount they need to blow off their weakpoint would make the arrows weight to much. I don't think this weight would hinder their ability to shoot accurately, but the ammunition that each soldier would be able to carry will be limited. Carrying too much of these explosive arrows would definitively affect the all-important mobility. Also, rain renders gunpodwer useless afaik. Finally, RESOURCES. I can imagine each of those arrows being more expensive than a single blade. And each blade can be used for many titans, their durability will be show next week. Quote:
Predictable fashion: One of the first things this episode showed us is how unpredictable they are. You are wrong on this one. Many arrows will miss and that will hit on the soldier's stamina harder than melee. Slow: Somewhat true, but not all of them are like that. There are deviant titans that can lounge towards a flying human. Quote:
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It is not fair game is to twist the world of that author to create those new tools for yourself. Which is what you are doing. You are assuming too much things about their military technology.
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Last edited by zRichard; 2013-05-06 at 09:32. Reason: words |
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2013-05-06, 11:27 | Link #99 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
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After seeing episode 5 I noticed that the training method they use (dummy wooden titan) not even close to the real battle, in the real battle the titans (not only the jumping titan) have a good reflect when compared to the silly wooden one. I think they should find another way of training.
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2013-05-06, 12:15 | Link #100 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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But yeah, I agree they should find another training method. And if it's only starting to move the wooden things around a bit (I'm sure they could manage that somehow). And maybe some things that get thrown towards the trainees (which could be a hand of a titan irl situation) or something like that. |
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