Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[kaito-kid]

Found something written by you (Kaito-kid), and that is the ultimate proof that GSD is not successful since you brush aside everything I come up with and stick with your viewership=success formula.

You still haven't proven anything. You continue to base your argument on your own assumptions and try to sell them as facts.

TV ratings/Sales/Popularity=Success is a formula used by the entertainment industry around the world. I didn't invent it.

Fukuda is not involved in any anime production since GSD. If he is so successful in GSD, then like you said, he would have his hands full with new anime production. He is not involved in any new anime production is the proof you need that GSD is not successful. (See the logic: GSD is successful: Fukuda have his hands full with new anime\ ?????: Fukuda do not have his hands full with new anime. What is ????? stands for?)

And you continue to assume things and present them as arguments.. As I said in the post you quoted, I don't know why he didn't make more Anime and neither do you. maybe he had issues in his personal life, maybe he had some trouble with the studio, or maybe his reason is a very simple one, like: "I don't feel like doing another one, cos I'm busy swimming in my huge pile of cash"

I don't have much to say about your "Fukuda failed so GSD is a fail" argument..
Saying that Fukuda failed because he didn't do another Anime and then even claiming that Destiny failed because he didn't do more projects is something that my Logic-O-Meter™ can't digest.

GS is a success, GSD is not. I think I make myself very clear in my last post. People watch GSD because of the success of GS. To measure success of GSD, viewership is only one of the elements. Other elements include amount of sequels

Other 'elements' like DVD sales? Higher poll ranking? better music sales? ..Destiny did better then SEED (and most other Gundam series) in all of all of these categories..

company policy and directions (they abandon GSverse and go into G00)...etc. All of that indicate GSD is not as successful as Sunrise would like.

And now they seem to be moving away from 00.. So by your logic, 00 is a flop.. I'm sorry but this is just pure lolz

Tons of shit shows and shit characters top the charts in Japan. That's not helping your argument any.

No it's helping my argument plenty. They are on the charts because they are Popular. The fact that you think those characters are shit doesn't make any difference.

Destiny was successful with general audiences at the time, but did not go over well with most Gundam fans; aside from the years of mostly negative backlash to GSD

The whole 'Gundma fans are more important than general audiences' is bullshit to begin with. But apparently the 'Gundam fans hate CE' argument is also bullshit.. Mr. brightman recently posted a Demographic breakdown that shows that Seed AND Destiny did better than something like 00 among most age groups, even the older Gundam fans.

there's also the fact that most GSD Gunpla is still collecting dust on store shelves. So for Gundam fans--the audience that actually matters

Source?
This actually might be true, but I'm not sure..

GSD was not a success. And that's why Bandai/Sunrise, while not cancelling the SEED movie, are in no rush to release it either.

Yeah.... that's what a big studio like Sunrise dose to a failed series.. Give it a damn movie and patiently wait while the director is probably busy drinking kool-aid..

[nyxem]

GSD didnt failed.Even is failed is beause of shinn ;D anyway GSD > 00 all the way.

[Throne Zwei]

Originally Posted by monstert

Surely those who watched Destiny simply because it's a sequel of SEED wouldn't buy the DVDs if they didn't like it.

Some buy the dvds because it's part of a franchise they love. At the same time they acknowledge that series is pretty bad or they don't like it. Andres from Tomopop owns the boxset but acknowledges that and I'm certain Chris from MAHQ owns it too but also doesn't like the series. Buying the dvds does not necessarily equate to liking the series.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Throne Zwei

Some buy the dvds because it's part of a franchise they love. At the same time they acknowledge that series is pretty bad or they don't like it. Andres from Tomopop owns the boxset but acknowledges that and I'm certain Chris from MAHQ owns it too but also doesn't like the series. Buying the dvds does not necessarily equate to liking the series.

you are talking about a very very small Demographic here..

[Throne Zwei]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

you are talking about a very very small Demographic here..

Posting some specific examples here buddy...

[monster]

Originally Posted by Throne Zwei

Posting some specific examples here buddy...

I think your examples are the exceptions to the rule.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Throne Zwei

Posting some specific examples here buddy...

You can't be fuc*ing serious... Are you really asking me to prove that people buy GSD DVDs because they don't hate it but because they like it??

[tetsuo69]

i loled so hard at some comments that just seem pure personal opinion.

its clear that for most fans outside japan GSD was a pure failer but thats just personal opinions cuz GSD did pretty good in japan.

kira still ranking so high after so many years and often beats setsuna that just had a series and a movie on the anime and gundam polls, that would be more than enough to prove that GSD wasnt the best shit ever but was far from failer.

[Paladinoras]

Lol, Fukuda is not directing any more shows because of two primary reasons, neither of which had anything to do with how GSD sold.

First, Seiyuus hate his guts cause he mistreated some of them during the process of making GSD, most prominently Naomi Shindoh, the person who voiced Cagalli. If rumors are true, he lambasted Maaya Sakamoto too. (Lunamaria Hawke) So he'd pretty much have to voice his own characters if he ever decides to direct a new anime.

Second, his wife has freaking BRAIN CANCER. Infer on your own. For all I know, he could be a masochistic wife beater, but if he's a normal one, and his wife got brain cancer, he'd be taking care of her instead of going out there directing shows. The fact that his wife is always around helping him somehow also plays a role.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Lol, Fukuda is not directing any more shows because of two primary reasons, neither of which had anything to do with how GSD sold.

First, Seiyuus hate his guts cause he mistreated some of them during the process of making GSD, most prominently Naomi Shindoh, the person who voiced Cagalli. If rumors are true, he lambasted Maaya Sakamoto too. (Lunamaria Hawke) So he'd pretty much have to voice his own characters if he ever decides to direct a new anime.

Don't forget that at the 2008 NY Anime Festival, Rie Tanaka said that Lacus was the hardest role she played so far, partly because she had to act in a certain way to make Fukuda/Morosawa happy.

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Second, his wife has freaking BRAIN CANCER. Infer on your own. For all I know, he could be a masochistic wife beater, but if he's a normal one, and his wife got brain cancer, he'd be taking care of her instead of going out there directing shows. The fact that his wife is always around helping him somehow also plays a role.

Morosawa had cancer, but she didn't specify what kind of cancer she had. But I can't help but think if her "cancer" excuse means that she's going through a Hideaki Anno-esque Creator Breakdown phase.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

But I can't help but think if her "cancer" excuse means that she's going through a Hideaki Anno-esque Creator Breakdown phase.

Unless you have proof that she's faking her condition, I'd suggest you don't talk lightly about it.

[RRW]

never knew they was a debate that last for 5 years. seem GSD is most "discussed" series in anime history

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monstert

Unless you have proof that she's faking her condition, I'd suggest you don't talk lightly about it.

It's just my cynical side saying it.

I feel sorry for her.

[Paladinoras]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Don't forget that at the 2008 NY Anime Festival, Rie Tanaka said that Lacus was the hardest role she played so far, partly because she had to act in a certain way to make Fukuda/Morosawa happy.

Nah, I think for once, that was more of Rie Tanaka being more of a free spirit while Lacus is way more grounded.

Morosawa had cancer, but she didn't specify what kind of cancer she had. But I can't help but think if her "cancer" excuse means that she's going through a Hideaki Anno-esque Creator Breakdown phase.

....No, she actually has it. Proven, which is partially to blame for the erratic developments of GSD.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by rrw

never knew they was a debate that last for 5 years. seem GSD is most "discussed" series in anime history

And to some individuals, that can be considered a success... in a way...

Oops...

- Tak (Yes, I loved GSD... sue me)

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by Paladinoras

Nah, I think for once, that was more of Rie Tanaka being more of a free spirit while Lacus is way more grounded.

Which goes hand in hand with Rie Tanaka also saying that the 2nd Lacus (I´m sorry I forgot her real name) being much more fun to voice than Lacus.

//
The words success and failure in themselves are too abstract. It´s much more interesting to talk about specific goals. Do the ones calling Destiny a failure base that solely on their own opinion or do they factor in (pro) critics, money, hard core fans or perhaps the mainstream audience? If it´s only personal opinions it´s more right to say that Destiny failed to reach their expectations than calling it a failure.

By the way. It´s a lie to say that Destiny failed completely but it certainly has a long way to go to reach the heights of it´s prequel.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Rawinder

Tons of shit shows and shit characters top the charts in Japan. That's not helping your argument any.

That 'shit show' and its 'shit character(s)' top charts in Japan for a decade (and still topping several charts, including top Gundam pilots). I find it difficult to agree with you when their popularity persists until the present day.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

aside from the years of mostly negative backlash to GSD, there's also the fact that most GSD Gunpla is still collecting dust on store shelves.

A fact, you say? Gee, I guess that is why HLJ always have to restock them.

The Freedom Gundam and its successor is one of the most popular Gunpla kits ever released to the public, with some variants that even I don't think should exist. Never mind it being one of the most manipulated kits by various Gunpla masters. So unless you have statistical data backing your claims, I am going to treat your statement with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by Rawinder

So for Gundam fans--the audience that actually matters (as the non-fans will just move from one show to the next no matter what)--GSD was not a success. And that's why Bandai/Sunrise, while not cancelling the SEED movie, are in no rush to release it either.

Gundam fans based on which demographic? It was a widely popular show in East Asia when it first came out, not only in Japan but many Chinese-language sites went nuts over it, always eager to discuss following episodes.

And even if it somehow failed with the Western demographic, so what? Its not a show made for Westerners anyway, Sunrise can't give less of a shit about them.

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

The words success and failure in themselves are too abstract. It´s much more interesting to talk about specific goals. Do the ones calling Destiny a failure base that solely on their own opinion or do they factor in (pro) critics, money, hard core fans or perhaps the mainstream audience? If it´s only personal opinions it´s more right to say that Destiny failed to reach their expectations than calling it a failure.

Thats a good point, really. When the first episode of GSD aired, I wasn't looking forward to the new protagonists at all, hell, even when the show was first announced, I was not remotely impressed with the new cast of characters. Deep down inside, I was hoping for Kira & Lacus to return. As it turned out, they returned, in a big way, and I was happy, therefore making GSD a success seeing how it met my goals as an audience.

- Tak

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

Which goes hand in hand with Rie Tanaka also saying that the 2nd Lacus (I´m sorry I forgot her real name) being much more fun to voice than Lacus.

Q10: What’s the hardest character for you to do?

Rie: Probably Lacus. Part of it was because I played Meer at the same time, but Lacus was not very realistic like a human being. There isn’t a lot of emotion and she doesn’t show it. She’s always nice and gentle, and she doesn’t show much human emotions. She always has her own style. Because of the war that is going on, and the people dying, she expressed a bit of anger and sadness, but I had to play it in a certain style. I always had to check with the director to make sure it’s what he wants.

Source: http://www.omonomono.com/2008/09/30/...-tanaka-panel/


GM: What’s the most difficult role that you’ve played, and how did you overcome it?

RT: [Gundam SEED's] Lacus Clyne, because the character has to be very reserved and commanding, even if she’s mad or showing some expressions, she still has to be a reserved character, and this was over a span of four years including Destiny, and it was very difficult.

Source: http://www.animevice.com/news/nyaf08...rie-tanaka/25/


Linda asked about difficult characters and Tanaka brought up Lacus Clyne from Gundam Seed. Lacus was difficult since she was not very realistic concerning her role in the story. She doesn’t show a lot of emotions. The story is centered on war, but even when she is angry, she has to keep a certain style that is true to her character which was very difficult. Tanaka received much support from her director on this role.

Source: http://liheliso.com/buzz/archive/00001038.htm


Oh, and the "2nd Lacus" you're talking about is Meer Campbell.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Q10: What’s the hardest character for you to do?

Rie: Probably Lacus. Part of it was because I played Meer at the same time, but Lacus was not very realistic like a human being.

Oh, from her mouth to God's ears...Well atleast she knew she was playing the biggest Mary Sue in Gundam history...

Originally Posted by rrw

never knew they was a debate that last for 5 years. seem GSD is most "discussed" series in anime history

Dude gets some popcorn and go look in the animesuki archives...GSD was alot of things, mostly absolutely soul-crushing and awful, but if it had one saving grace it was the fact that it produced some of the funniest, if not ultra-intense, if not uber-epic episode discussion threads in the history of this site...I was here for it all, and animesuki has never been as bare feet and crazy as it was during those days...The Gundam forum was the place to be...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Oh, from her mouth to God's ears...Well atleast she knew she was playing the biggest Mary Sue in Gundam history...

Her comment was not really surprising

I think fans began to accept the status of Lacus & Kira as some kind of minor deities since their return in Destiny...

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Dude gets some popcorn and go look in the animesuki archives...GSD was alot of things, mostly absolutely soul-crushing and awful,

You know I still disagree with you about this after 5 years, but whats been said had been said, and I am glad we have decided to move on.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

but if it had one saving grace it was the fact that it produced some of the funniest, if not ultra-intense, if not uber-epic episode discussion threads in the history of this site...I was here for it all, and animesuki has never been as bare feet and crazy as it was during those days...The Gundam forum was the place to be...

Oh, I remember those days...

The debate and discussions were so intense to the point where everything else was thrown out the window. Hell, even when 00 was first announced, it barely registered as a blip on our Gundam radar...

And people thought Kira was going to steal 00's glory...

- Tak (CAGALI IS CRYIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!)