Toradora! - Episode 25 (END) Discussion / Poll

[Master Chibi]

You still haven't explained how doing the unexpected is a bad thing, or how adhering to the character's personality and doing what's expected of her is also a bad thing either.

[radioIzzy]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

Like what? I'm honestly at a loss how they're similar at all outside of Kugimiya. Different setting, different characters, different tone... really the only thing similar is her playing a loli tsundere in both because Saito sure as hell isn't anything like Ryuuji.

Guh... The reason Znt keeps popping into my head is because the character template of Taiga is simiar to that of Louise.

Obviously, the tsundre character, but also long hair, the "flat chest" issue, her height (although Louise's height is considered normal in ZnT I think), they both of nicknames, both have issues with their parents, bad reputation to a better reputation.

Kind of like Louise in the real world.

I honestly think it's a valid comment.

[CaptGloval]

For a little discussion on the last scenes, note how it mirrors the scenes from the beginning of the series. I guess the animation staff decided to use this stylistic ending to invite some comparison and contrast:

Originally Posted by CaptGloval

I like how the ending mirrors the beginning of this anime (with some differences). The first scene of the first episode shows a pair of Tree Sparrows. Ryuuji is swept off his feet when he first met Taiga, thanks to her uppercut. They meet again in a messy classroom where Taiga botches a love confession and clumsily hides in a locker. In the last episode, Ryuuji sees Taiga after a year in the same, but now orderly classroom. She hides, perhaps planned this time, in a locker, but easily found by him. A love confession is said effortlessly. Next comes Taiga's headbutt. And the last scene in the anime shows a pair of Tree Sparrows.

Also, I think Taiga being embarrassed should be tied up to the scene in ep 24 where they were arguing by the river on who should be the first to confess. Turns out Ryuuji gets to do it first, so I think aside from being embarrassed, she's also mildly irritated that he has pulled a fast one on her again.

But then...

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

Like I said, if I got the ending I expected, I think it could of been the best episode of the series.

I see the problem boils down to personal expectations. I guess there's no need to argue further.

[Nukerjsr]

Thinking about it, the ending is just like what happened in Episode 4.

Ryuuji meets with Taiga up on the roof, where she has a tender moment talking about Kitamura. Then after thinking about it, she tries to kick into Ryuuji in the face with all of her might saying: "WHAT EMBARRASSING THINGS HAVE YOU MADE ME SAY, YOU PERVERTED DOG!?"

What happened at the end of that for me is in the same vein as this. Uncomfortable.

[brain]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

Thank you sir. I'm glad someone agrees with me.

Like I said, if I got the ending I expected, I think it could of been the best episode of the series.

The climax was the proposal in ep24. It really isn't normal for the climax to be the last moment of any particular vehicle for storytelling.

[Kafriel]

Yeah, ep25 is the "some time later" kind of thing, where you get to see how the characters ended up.

[Frostydrops]

Felt the ending was a little underwhelming. I just think this arc isnt as good as the "Kitamura & Student Council President" arc, a little dissapointing.

[Eric10301]

I feel kinds disappointed, normally I would give the creators credit for doing something a bit different, albeit with the same end result but here I just felt like a lot of stuff was left out. At one point I thought Minori was a lesbo and I kind of wish she had been. Minori and Ami weren't explored enough is show resulting in no real challenge to Taiga's bid for Ryuuji's affection. I guess my real problem is I never wanted Taiga and Ryuuji to end up together. Maybe my expectations were too high but man I sure am underwhelmed by the ending.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by radioIzzy

I honestly think it's a valid comment.

We talked about it when the show first came on, but I didn't feel like comparisons to ZnT really work. Yeah she hits him but the way ZnT uses that violence is to reset development to the "I like you but won't say it" position. The violence in Toradora is more low-key slapstick and doesn't affect the story. You also said "Traits", one archetype doesn't really be counted multiple times. Yeah you could say both were handled by the same studio but that can't be helped and they're by different teams.

[Hane]

it'soverit'soverwhywhywhywhywhywhywhy

I don't know how I can add anything else. For every one flamer, three posters rise to fight the good fight XD

It's great how everyone resolved the whole Yasuko out-of-character debate. I for one, was never taken in by that smile she put on throughout the series. When she found Ryuuji with Taiga's mom, without her makeup, I thought to myself - "Nice to finally meet you. It's too bad it's under such sad circumstances."

Wonderful lovecom that surprised the heck out of me. Someone wrote earlier that that once the message has been delivered, the story is over.

Well, in this case, the message sounds so damn good, I wouldn't mind hearing it again and again and again Toradora OVA please? More novels...please...!?

But I understand that the author doesn't have to write anymore - shouldn't have to write more. She told the story she wanted to tell. There really is closure. It's all about faith - you can expect those two to end up, no matter what. Their whole relationship was the basis of the series. Any feelings I have that feel there should be more come not from an "Is that it?!" reasoning, but a "Oh god, I know it's over but please give me more!" kind of thing.

Someone even explained the role of birds in the story. Great direction and a great storyteller...they've produced a monster of a series.

It's over. Remember, crying is a nosebleed of the heart!

It was great, all definitely a series to recommend.

[kira-sama]

Spoiler for episode 25:

just finished watched the last episode
I really like this romance comedy anime, and i satisfied with the ending too like Ryuuji said "i love you" to Taiga, I smiled at that part also cried

[Nenkitsune]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

Thinking about it, the ending is just like what happened in Episode 4.

Ryuuji meets with Taiga up on the roof, where she has a tender moment talking about Kitamura. Then after thinking about it, she tries to kick into Ryuuji in the face with all of her might saying: "WHAT EMBARRASSING THINGS HAVE YOU MADE ME SAY, YOU PERVERTED DOG!?"

What happened at the end of that for me is in the same vein as this. Uncomfortable.

I was thinking about this this morning, (before coming here) and was going to point something out about her attitude.
the OLD taiga would get embarrassed, hurt Ryuuji, then say something along the lines of "What are you saying you stupid mongrel!"
but instead, in the end, she says "Why would you say sometimes as embarrassing like that!? You should have waited for a better mood or something..."

her physical response is the same Taiga, but she doesn't act like the old Taiga with the way she talks to Ryuuji anymore. she WANTED to hear him say "I love you" just not in their old classroom after finding her in that locker.

anyways, the point is, that people can change a LOT, they can change the way they dress, the way they talk, the people they associate with, but there will STILL be certain things about them, that never will change. for taiga, one of those things is how she deals with extreme embarrassment

[risingstar3110]

The ending is not bad, everyone included my favourite character got happy ending.

Still i give it 6/10. The pace is just so ridiculous that even a better ending can't save it

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Hane

It's great how everyone resolved the whole Yasuko out-of-character debate. I for one, was never taken in by that smile she put on throughout the series. When she found Ryuuji with Taiga's mom, without her makeup, I thought to myself - "Nice to finally meet you. It's too bad it's under such sad circumstances."

It never was resolved, we pretty much agreed to disagree.

[Guardian Enzo]

Whatever you may think of Kugimaya Rie - and it's obvious she's a beloved figure otherwise she wouldn't keep getting lead roles in hugely popular series - it's hard to understand how anyone wouldn't see the massive similarities from role to role. It's the same performance, the same character, hell, even the same physical appearance for the most part - with a few minor differences. She's a one-woman anime trope - a character who acts a certain way and gets animated a certain way. If you think Taiga is any different you're seeing black cats in dark rooms that aren't there.

As for Ami, well - if you think she was predictable you stopped really watching her about episode 12.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

As for Ami, well - if you think she was predictable you stopped really watching her about episode 12.

I'm not saying she's predictable, I'm saying it's just as easy to label the characters as such and outright dismiss them otherwise the same way you are (wrongly) doing to Taiga. Singling out Taiga doesn't suddenly make the other two characters better off somehow.

[Guardian Enzo]

They're better because they're better - my opinion. How can someone be better if not relative to someone else? I label Ami and Minorin as interesting and surprising because to me, they were - and Taiga as boring and predictable for the same reason. After watching even a single episode of SHnS, ZnT (shudder), etc. I felt like I knew exactly what Taiga would do in every scene, and how every line would sound. I label Horie Yui as a great seiyuu because for me, she finds depths and subtleties that go way beyond the obvious nature of her characters. That's my opinion.

[typhonsentra]

You can say it's always the same character but.... how are Shana and Louise similar (Shana is pretty nice to Yuji outside of training)? In Toradora there's a lot of physical comedy so that comparison stands but people just take for granted that all the roles are the same when after actually looking at the characters it doesn't really stand up as well. The three main roles she's known for as a "Loli-Tsundere" are this, Shana, and Zero. Zero is tsun-heavily, Shana leaning much stronger to the dere-side. Taiga's kind of a middle ground, going heavily to sweet in the last third of the series.

And she really does play the characters differently by the way. I made the same connection you did after the first episode but she's definitely using a deeper voice for Taiga than she has in the past.

See what I mean?

[Master Chibi]

You sure don't make it sound like just a simple opinion guy, I''ll tell you that much.

If you want to hide behind that wall though, be my guest.

;p

[Guardian Enzo]

I honestly don't understand your point. How is one supposed to state an opinion without, well - stating it? There's no arithmetical formula to show that Horie Yui is a better VA than Kugimiya Rie or that Taiga is predictable - this isn't calculus, it's art.