Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Jiraya2]

Originally Posted by Used Can

I think there's the possibility that Hayate's bro is his own persona from the future, since we've already seen Hayate travel through time. But, at the same time, he didn't seem to have any idea how Hayate got the stone. If he's Hayate, he should know.

Either way, Hayate's bro seems to have knowledge on the stones, and judging from his reaction, I don't think he liked them too much. So, I wouldn't be surprised if he was working with Yukariko to get rid of the "Power of Royalty". Additionally, if Midas confused him with Hayate, then I guess that raises the possibility of him being Nagi's father.

Well, this raw is so low quality, I cannot make my mind.
Nevertheless, your assumption is very interesting.
I always think it was weird Hayate got an older brother, so it makes sense.
Moreover, we can assume into the Royal Garden, time is not passing at the same pace. Indeed, the first time Hayate go out, A-tan told him he cannot imagine how long she was waiting for him, while Hayate did not understand because he left only for a day.
We can also guess than if a stone is required to enter into the Royal Garden, a stone is alsoo required to leave it. In that case, it is not impossible Hayate's Bro (or maybe, Hayate older) is still there for ten years ...
But I do not think so, because it looks more likely that Nagi's mother used that stone to enter into the Royal Garden after A-tan and Hayate's Bro left.

And IMO, Midas lost his arm when Hayate's Bro helped A-tan leaving the Royal Garden. In that case, it will be clear that Hayate's Bro and Hayate are the same character, because a Noble Spirit cannot be wrong about that.

At last, what about Mikado Sanzenin? This geezer is incredible and his power looks limitless (and not only his wealthness).

On the other hand, this manga is a comedy, so everything is possible

The more I look at A-tan, the more she looks cute!

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Jiraya2

Well, this raw is so low quality, I cannot make my mind.
Nevertheless, your assumption is very interesting.
I always think it was weird Hayate got an older brother, so it makes sense.
Moreover, we can assume into the Royal Garden, time is not passing at the same pace. Indeed, the first time Hayate go out, A-tan told him he cannot imagine how long she was waiting for him, while Hayate did not understand because he left only for a day.
We can also guess than if a stone is required to enter into the Royal Garden, a stone is alsoo required to leave it. In that case, it is not impossible Hayate's Bro (or maybe, Hayate older) is still there for ten years ...
But I do not think so, because it looks more likely that Nagi's mother used that stone to enter into the Royal Garden after A-tan and Hayate's Bro left.

And IMO, Midas lost his arm when Hayate's Bro helped A-tan leaving the Royal Garden. In that case, it will be clear that Hayate's Bro and Hayate are the same character, because a Noble Spirit cannot be wrong about that.

At last, what about Mikado Sanzenin? This geezer is incredible and his power looks limitless (and not only his wealthness).

On the other hand, this manga is a comedy, so everything is possible

The more I look at A-tan, the more she looks cute!

Mikado is the final boss

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Jiraya2

But I do not think so, because it looks more likely that Nagi's mother used that stone to enter into the Royal Garden after A-tan and Hayate's Bro left.

There was/is more than one stone, and I think Yukariko at least kept one for herself when she found the 9 stones.

[zero7]

Originally Posted by Jiraya2

Well, this raw is so low quality, I cannot make my mind.
Nevertheless, your assumption is very interesting.
I always think it was weird Hayate got an older brother, so it makes sense.
Moreover, we can assume into the Royal Garden, time is not passing at the same pace. Indeed, the first time Hayate go out, A-tan told him he cannot imagine how long she was waiting for him, while Hayate did not understand because he left only for a day.
We can also guess than if a stone is required to enter into the Royal Garden, a stone is alsoo required to leave it. In that case, it is not impossible Hayate's Bro (or maybe, Hayate older) is still there for ten years ...
But I do not think so, because it looks more likely that Nagi's mother used that stone to enter into the Royal Garden after A-tan and Hayate's Bro left.

And IMO, Midas lost his arm when Hayate's Bro helped A-tan leaving the Royal Garden. In that case, it will be clear that Hayate's Bro and Hayate are the same character, because a Noble Spirit cannot be wrong about that.

At last, what about Mikado Sanzenin? This geezer is incredible and his power looks limitless (and not only his wealthness).

On the other hand, this manga is a comedy, so everything is possible

The more I look at A-tan, the more she looks cute!

if hayate bro and hayate is the same character than bro would of prevented both a-tan and hayate suffering

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by zero7

if hayate bro and hayate is the same character than bro would of prevented both a-tan and hayate suffering

unless it was somehow necessary

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

unless it was somehow necessary

Or it's fate, like when Hayate slipped into the past before to help Nagi. Could also be a self-correcting time stream, where no matter what he tried to do, it would lead to the same outcome.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Wonder if Hayate's brother is currently inside the Royal Garden which explains him missing for 10 years, and Athena wanted to return to the RG to help free him.

If Hayate's bro has spent 10 (outside world) years in the RG then he should be already dead. 5 days in the outside world are 2 months in the RG. So, 10 years in the outside world should be 120 years in the RG.

I'm sure her reasons to want to return to the RG must be linked to her family.

[zodanhko]

I have thought of that possibility. It won't surprise me if he were to sleep for a hundred years like the Avatar. Lol

[Mentar]

I'll probably run fairly solo in here, but I'll say it anyway: So far, I have difficulties caring about the whole Royal Garden substory. Which is a bad thing, because it's obviously supposed to be so central, but... I REALLY have difficulties dredging up curiosity about it. Because it feels so very much unrelated to the rest of the show.

For a dozen tankoubons, the story in HnG develops around a core of characters. And all of a sudden - unrelated to essentially everything else - the End of the World arc begins with an entirely new character Athena, with only Hayate as known character. Feels very much like an alternate universe kind of substory.

Even now, when Hata tries to interweave this Arc with the rest of the story, but the connection to the core cast (Nagi, Maria, Hina, Ayumu, Sakuya, Isumi) is essentially nonexistent. I suspect that first there needs to be a bigger explanation for me why I should care...

*shrugs shoulders sadly*

[zodanhko]

It's not a problem that you don't care. Just believe in yourself. ^.^

Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.

[Serffix]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.

Then the first 160+ chapters were just filler waiting for the main story to take place ..? I think that's kind of unfair to the fans of the other characters. And if it's like you say, why did he wait so long before introducing this "main story" then ?

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Even now, when Hata tries to interweave this Arc with the rest of the story, but the connection to the core cast (Nagi, Maria, Hina, Ayumu, Sakuya, Isumi) is essentially nonexistent.

Nagi getting a role is basically granted, especially now that we know that Yukariko was involved with the Power of Royalty being stolen, and even more so if Hayate's bro is indeed her father - not to mention that Nagi still is the main female character, and that was shown rather well in this arc.

Maria remains a big mystery. We have no idea why Mikado took her in, and personally, I'm not buying the "we just happened to find her under a statue of the Virgin Mary" story. She also seems to know Athena. In addition to this, she's Nagi's surrogate mother.

Hina will definitely be tied to this story, somehow, even if she shouldn't be. She's just far too popular amongst the fans, Hata cannot simply leave her out.

Ayumu and Sakuya have never played large roles in the story, no matter how much I love them. I'm sure they'll remain the same way.

Isumi is the magical girl, and she seems somewhat tied to the RG story already.

So, I wouldn't say they'll be left out. However, at the same time, if Hata plans to keep Athena as a regular character, and perhaps a main one, then she needs this much exposure. I'm sure everything will end up tied, somehow, in the end.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Serffix

Then the first 160+ chapters were just filler waiting for the main story to take place ..? I think that's kind of unfair to the fans of the other characters. And if it's like you say, why did he wait so long before introducing this "main story" then ?

Yes, that's a harsh and another way to put it. Those last few hundred of chapters did have relationship build-up and comedic genre of the story.

I think the waiting has to do with the right time for Athena's introduction, and it was done beautifully. The story about Royal Garden was planned from the beginning.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...er/c001/9.html

Edit: Rather than said the main story, maybe I should have said the main plot of the story?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I'll probably run fairly solo in here, but I'll say it anyway: So far, I have difficulties caring about the whole Royal Garden substory. Which is a bad thing, because it's obviously supposed to be so central, but... I REALLY have difficulties dredging up curiosity about it. Because it feels so very much unrelated to the rest of the show.

For a dozen tankoubons, the story in HnG develops around a core of characters. And all of a sudden - unrelated to essentially everything else - the End of the World arc begins with an entirely new character Athena, with only Hayate as known character. Feels very much like an alternate universe kind of substory.

Even now, when Hata tries to interweave this Arc with the rest of the story, but the connection to the core cast (Nagi, Maria, Hina, Ayumu, Sakuya, Isumi) is essentially nonexistent. I suspect that first there needs to be a bigger explanation for me why I should care...

*shrugs shoulders sadly*

You know, I had the same view about the EotW when it finished. On its own, it was a very nice story with a really heart-breaking ending and some really interesting mysteries and several inserted hints and subtly details to add to the intrigue of it. It helped add layers to the story and expanded on the background of characters, as well as introducing Athena and Hayate's brother. But the way it was introduced can only be described as ''forced''. The story didn't appear out of the outcome of previous events, but simply because Hayate all of the sudden remembered something -> Cut to the past -> Return to the main story. Now Hata is by no means a great writer, but at least he shows when he does put in effort to think about the characters (as seen in the volume comments) and how they reveal that information. The way the EotW arc just pops ups was really not that thought-out as it should have been.

Now the current arc had a better set up from the get go, and had more interactions from the other characters (Hina, Nagi and Isumi had the most prominence in this arc as Used Can pointed out, while the rest of the cast always had the supporting characters label ably to their foreheads for a long time now (unfortunately)).

What I think Hata is trying to do is that he is gradually tying the Royal Garden sub-plot with the main plot with thin threads every step of the way, which seems to work fine thus far (ofc we have to gloss over the inconstancy that this arc gave us, but I want to wait to see how will all of this will wrap up before I bring that up) Whether he succeeds in doing so remains to be seen. Right now, I personally think that the arc on its own has been very enjoyable and may just earn a solid ''7'' from me if it manages to end right.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.

While all of this is interesting trivia, it really has little relevance to what is the current story is right now. Plans change all the time, and many authors (from all mediums) talk about how they create characters from other characters or how they had different plans for the storyline, but at the end of the day what matters is what actually happened, and now the main story is about how a butler in dept serving an underage girl who happens to have a crush on him, all the while they face all the mambo jumbo and wacky situations they encounter with their friends.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Yes, that's a harsh and another way to put it. Those last few hundred of chapters did have relationship build-up and comedic genre of the story.

I think the waiting has to do with the right time for Athena's introduction, and it was done beautifully. The story about Royal Garden was planned from the beginning.
{link}

Edit: Rather than said the main story, maybe I should have said the main plot of the story?

It could just be me, but all I see is the silhouette of the Royal Palace. That doesn't mean he planed to insert them into the story later on. He could've wanted to throw it in as trivia.

And the plot isn't going to change. All of the Royal Garden storyline going to do is introduce Hayate's brother and give additional back story. It isn't going to hijack the plot.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

While all of this is interesting trivia, it really has little relevance to what is the current story is right now. Plans change all the time, and many authors (from all mediums) talk about how they create characters from other characters or how they had different plans for the storyline, but at the end of the day what matters is what actually happened, and now the main story is about how a butler in dept serving an underage girl who happens to have a crush on him, all the while they face all the mambo jumbo and wacky situations they encounter with their friends.

The creation of the characters show how Athena isn't just a out of blue character created by Hata to be inserted into the story. And the fact that he wanted to introduced Athena as the same character as Nagi prove that she bounds to appear. Just wanted to comment on Mentar's statement.

The story of the HnG had always about a butler and his mistress, and that fact hasn't change from when it was first planned. And neither was the important of the RG which took 30 chapters, the longest arc yet, and still continuing.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

It could just be me, but all I see is the silhouette of the Royal Palace. That doesn't mean he planed to insert them into the story later on. He could've wanted to throw it in as trivia.

And the plot isn't going to change. All of the Royal Garden storyline going to do is introduce Hayate's brother and give additional back story. It isn't going to hijack the plot.

I think it was already clear that it was planned be a part of the story with additional the information given.

Sure, there will be more comedy and harem interactions in the future with fillers comedy chapters about Tama, Klaus, etc, etc. But I won't call that a stable or important plot. Mikado's plan and the Power of God including the return to the RG will be playing a role in future chapters. Who is the final boss whom everyone's pondering about?

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

But the way it was introduced can only be described as ''forced''. The story didn't appear out of the outcome of previous events, but simply because Hayate all of the sudden remembered something -> Cut to the past -> Return to the main story.

See, I've only recently gotten into the series, and maybe because I already knew it was coming, but it didn't really seem like it was out of nowhere to me. The series was actually quite good about being consistent with Hayate and how he felt about A-tan even as far back as her first appearance. I would agree that Hata probably wasn't originally going to have the mood of "The End of the World" be as dark as it was, but in retrospect, almost every time someone asked Hayate point blank about how he felt about romance, Athena was brought up and it was shown that she was still very much a part of his thoughts in that respect.

Personally, I absolutely loved the mood of EotW, even if it was darker and more dramatic than anything that came before it. I loved the fairy tale atmosphere. And I especially loved Athena. She was officious without being a bitch, fun while still being tragic. Watching the two of them, even though they were just kids, made me feel really warm.

As I read the series, Athena was what I had been waiting for--someone Hayate was actually interested in. She allowed us to see a broader picture of Hayate through his interaction with her, especially in the Athens arc currently. After two hundred chapters of girls throwing themselves at him, and Hayate being "DERP" about it, it was extremely refreshing to me to see a mutual relationship begin to take form.

This isn't to say I expected what we seem to be getting. After Hayate saved Athena, I fully expected the plot to whisk her offstage. What's between Hayate and Athena definitely reads as a Love Story, and so I expected a Love Story-esque end with Hayate and Athena smiling at one another bittersweetly, with the knowledge that "it'll never work out". Her sitting beside him and explaining her story while looking up at the stars with him for one last night. That sort of thing, you know? Not Athena settling into his lap and the two of them flirting and hugging while blushing.

So I'm pleasantly surprised, and hope this speaks of Athena's integration into the plot further. Watching the two of them makes me happy. I feel like they're the best couple we've seen so far, because they're both mutually invested in one another, and they make each other more interesting together than they are necessarily separately. I'm still bracing for that bittersweet goodbye, but I'm hoping for something else.

Originally Posted by Arabesque

And the plot isn't going to change. All of the Royal Garden storyline going to do is introduce Hayate's brother and give additional back story. It isn't going to hijack the plot.

Personally, I think Royal Garden probably is the plot. I can already see how it can involve Maria and Nagi--heck, the set up of this arc was fundamentally about Nagi even more than it was about Athena--and the rest of the characters, Hayate excluded, natch, pretty much are window dressing. This doesn't mean we won't shift back to lighter arcs for a while, only that, geez, guys, the EotW arc was nearly a hundred chapters ago, and you're still not convinced it's a major part of the storyline by now?

This type of arc is the arc everyone was talking about, where Hayate is forced to choose between Nagi and someone he genuinely loves? This was that arc. Anything that comes after it along those lines is going to seem like a retread if Hata isn't careful. It also tells us that romance really isn't the end game--which is an excellent move on Hata's part, as it allows him to extend the series while still allowing the characters to progress.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

It's not a problem that you don't care. Just believe in yourself. ^.^

I'll try ^_^;

Anyway, the original title of HnG is the "Royal Garden." Nagi character was made from Athena, and they were planned to be the same character until some problems occurred with the age differences which made Hata introduced Athena as a whole new character. Rather than a sub-story, it's more like the main story of HnG.

"Royal Garden" was rejected when it was offered. Hata was sent back to the drawing board, and he came up with Hayate no Gotoku instead, which was subsequently accepted.

If you really want to view 160 lead character as "side story", be my guest. In this case I have to say that so far I fail to be interested in the main story.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

There was/is more than one stone, and I think Yukariko at least kept one for herself when she found the 9 stones.

You mean, Yukariko is Sauron.

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

[Serffix]

Originally Posted by Mentar

If you really want to view 160 lead character as "side story", be my guest. In this case I have to say that so far I fail to be interested in the main story.

Same here, I'm really not interested in those stones nor in whatever Mikado is up to. It just keeps dragging on and on now.. I'll be glad when they're back at Hakuou.

[musouka]

Originally Posted by Serffix

I'll be glad when they're back at Hakuou.

I think the Hakuou chapters were beginning to drag more, honestly, since the characters were in a holding pattern and he seemed to be running out of gags. At least adding a plot allows for more than "have one allotted romantic moment with [insert girl here] that won't actually change or further a damn thing, rinse and repeat."

For example, I found Hinagiku to be pretty self absorbed and sort irritating once they reached Athens in a lot of respects, but overall, I liked the conclusion the story put forth for her and I feel that she'll probably grow as a character from all this. I know Nagi definitely did.