AnimeSuki Forums

mechdra · 2011-09-26, 10:20

I believe Vivid is not lacking in plot. Rather, they are developing it slowly. I guess the three seasons of MGLN that is filled with darkness and emo spoil the fan. Some people could not accept sunshine and rainbow after they had been under a rainy sky for too long and get used to it. This is a slice of life manga and we need to accept that. You may say that it is not important to the story like what is happening in Force but we could not ignore its existance as well.

00-Raiser · 2011-09-26, 10:53

If by slowly you mean 'not at all' then yes. There is nothing shown in Vivid to suggest a grander storyline that will have impact on anything (if anything was going to happen, it would have been reflected in Force).

Maybe if there were some mysterious bald guys (or girls in this case) with weird Ms on their foreheads in the tournament we'd have something.

As it stands you could completely skip Vivid and not miss anything that would prevent you from understanding the rest of the franchise.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-26, 10:56

It's not like they were going to spoil future developments in ViVid during that little cameo. One shot of them indicates nothing either way.

00-Raiser · 2011-09-26, 11:00

Let me put it this way: the events of Force are causing Mid Childan society itself to undergo drastic changes.

Between SSX and before Force, are there any notable changes to the setting and characters? Nope. Meaning anything that happens in Vivid likely won't have any sort of major impact on the franchise.

Look at Vivid like Full Metal Panic Fumoffu: it's enjoyable and worth the look, but it has no impact on what is presented in the first season and TSR.

Dark Wing · 2011-09-26, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

If by slowly you mean 'not at all' then yes. There is nothing shown in Vivid to suggest a grander storyline that will have impact on anything (if anything was going to happen, it would have been reflected in Force)

So you're saying that if there was some sort of attempt by an intergalactic terrorist group to sabotage the tournament you'd all be more interested?

Come on people this is a slice of life, martial arts, sports, fan-service, shounen-ish manga we already knew after a few chapters in. Still thats no reason to just rag on the story.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-26, 11:11

Yeah, not every story needs to upheaval the entire setting to be interesting. That's just unnecessary.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-26, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

So you're saying that if there was some sort of attempt by an intergalactic terrorist group to sabotage the tournament you'd all be more interested?

Come on people this is a slice of life, martial arts, sports, fan-service, shounen-ish manga we already knew after a few chapters in. Still thats no reason to just rag on the story.

Actually we all don't want that to happen. But personally, I myself yet to found the inner conflicts of each character at all.

Everything you say is right. Just a lack of inner conflict is tasteless to me. I mean, although there is slice of life elements in it, until today I have not found the inner conflicts of each main character. What I found was just excitement, but without the pain in inner. Fan-service, okay. But the presentation is too excessive. I see it just felt like eating Larb Leuat Neua (an extrme Thai cuisine. Made from a raw beef doused with gore and a sprinkling of mint leaves).

00-Raiser · 2011-09-26, 11:21

It's a matter of emotional investment. Readers are less inclined to become invested when there's nothing at stake and they know that whatever happens it inevitably doesn't matter.

Keroko · 2011-09-26, 11:40

For me, the lack of plot is something I can gloss over. Yeah, I would have preferred some plot, but there's enough to balance it out and keep me reading.

What is threatening more recently is the lack of a goal. In most tournament stories, the characters have a reason for winning the tournament. Vivio has none, and for being the main character... that's quite a big weakness. Like others said, there's nothing at stake. If they lose, they'll pout, get back to training and try again. No, it doesn't need to have the world at stake, but an actual goal would have been nice.

mechdra · 2011-09-26, 11:46

I guess the manga made the first mistake by making Einhart too normal. She should have been abused, on wheelchair, orphan, cyborg, and possibly emo. That way people will start to pay more attention. Am I right?

The lack of mad scientist, mass murderer, Squall clone, sadist and cool antagonist make this series worse. Am I right?

Worse of all, Vivio did not stand on some random place and scream she felt life is meaningless . Am I right?

Speaking of goal in a fighting tournament. Vivio is just like any little girl who wants to join a competition, it is just for fun and test their skills and strength. Nanoha are involved in two major case when she is young. Vivio on the other hand is not involved in anything at all and Force prove this as well. One way to know how strong she is now is by joining a tournament.

Keroko · 2011-09-26, 12:14

So give her an actual goal to reach, and motivation to get there and focus on that. Right now, she doesn't even care if she loses before she reaches the finals. Hell, she is even saying that she's not going to get that far. If the main character herself barely even cares whether that she's not going to win, why should the readers?

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-26, 12:40

Y'know, mechdra, it really, really looks like you're trying to put words in our mouths. Stop it, will you?

00-Raiser · 2011-09-26, 12:43

Just because we're critisizing it doesn't mean we think "OMG WORST MANGA EVER!!!" Most of us have said repeatedly what they like about the manga and that they still enjoy it.

Still, it's only fluff. Sure, I like cotton candy and all, but would I rather have a nice juicy steak for dinner? You bet.

Adding in dark elements can be a detriment too if done improperly. I've recently looked through the later Jinki:Extend volumes and damn right I'm fucking pissed off about how most of the heroines get graphically raped for no damn good reason, especially when it is completely ignored afterwards. It used to be a mecha comedy for pete's sake.

mechdra · 2011-09-26, 18:21

Hey guys, what I said easrlier are just the elements of MGLN of the past and present. These elements can be found in MGLN, MGLN A's, MGLN Strikers and Force.

I am glad that you guys do agree that it is a rainbow filled manga. I guess it is just the dessert of a full course meal.

Kaijo · 2011-09-26, 18:22

They had a bit of a plot with Einhart at first, but that was wrapped up and there doesn't seem to be much more to it. If they developed that, and ancient belka more, they might have something.

Say there is a deliberate memory that Einhart has from Claus, but it's a half-memory and something is missing. Something that led to Olive's death, and Einhart sees similarities between Vivio and Olive (the desire to protect people so much that one is willing to sacrifice their life for it). She doesn't want Vivio to repeat the same thing, and for whatever reason, she feels like it's going to happen.

And the tournament is showing her just how weak she and Vivio are, so she has worries she won't be strong enough, just like Claus was. It could have been set up to show that real injury and death is possible in the tournament, and then toss in some people who don't care how much they may injure their opponent in a match.

Perhaps a bit cliche, but this was just off the cuff stuff. I'm sure with a bit more thought, one could come up with a story that has everything we've seen so far *and* a plot. Hell, they could have interspersed this story with flashbacks to Claus and Olive, perhaps mirroring events of back then with the tourney happening today.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-26, 18:57

I'm glad they didn't do something like put in flashbacks during other people's fights, honestly. Only letting one or two people be important or cool is a general flaw of most tournament arcs.

Iromaru · 2011-09-26, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Since Vivid has no real plot, nothing much is there to keep you interested between fights. As I said, there is nothing at stake, at least nothing that the reader really cares about.

This is stupid beyond words.

So, let's say we have a soccer manga/anime. There is no plot and nothing interesting because they are not trying to kill each other? Every sports manga ever is boring and has no plot because there is no "real danger"? Seriously now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Whereas downtime in Force is still interesting because plot details are still being revealed during it.

No it isn't. Everything that happened in force is cliche, generic and boring. It feels like another shitty shonen #8675864. Characters are acting unnatural and stupid. Setting is slowly getting ruined. It tries to be serious and "mature" but fails horribly. Fights are Bleach tier. Almost all new characters suck. It feels like a bad doujin, and I saw tons of doujins with much better art and battle choreography.

Just because there is plot doesn't instantly make it good.

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-26, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iromaru

This is stupid beyond words.

So, let's say we have a soccer manga/anime. There is no plot and nothing interesting because they are not trying to kill each other? Every sports manga ever is boring and has no plot because there is no "real danger"? Seriously now...

Okay, I'll bite. Since you're sooooooooooo insistent that ViVid actually has a plot, why don't you go ahead and spell out what that plot is for us ignorant hicks?

00-Raiser · 2011-09-26, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iromaru

So, let's say we have a soccer manga/anime. There is no plot and nothing interesting because they are not trying to kill each other? Every sports manga ever is boring and has no plot because there is no "real danger"? Seriously now...

Sports mangas often have set goals. I'll use baseball as an example: almost all baseball animes/manga are about high schoolers trying to go to Koshien (and the series stops when they get there for some reason. Why can we never see the team actually participating in Koshien?). With high schoolers they have 3 years to get there before they have to graduate. It usually follows the team working hard to get better and make it before time runs out. Vivid kinda lacks in this department because the training is very briefly seen so we're less inclined to want to see their hard work pay off because we haven't seen said hard work. Compare it to Cross Game or Moshidora: we see them every step of the way and we want them to succeed.

The rest of your post is, like, your opinion man. If you want to randomly flame Force do it elsewhere.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-26, 19:56

Man, and you guys call me negative on it.

2011-09-26, 10:53	Link #1162
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	If by slowly you mean 'not at all' then yes. There is nothing shown in Vivid to suggest a grander storyline that will have impact on anything (if anything was going to happen, it would have been reflected in Force). Maybe if there were some mysterious bald guys (or girls in this case) with weird Ms on their foreheads in the tournament we'd have something. As it stands you could completely skip Vivid and not miss anything that would prevent you from understanding the rest of the franchise. __________________

2011-09-26, 11:00	Link #1164
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Let me put it this way: the events of Force are causing Mid Childan society itself to undergo drastic changes. Between SSX and before Force, are there any notable changes to the setting and characters? Nope. Meaning anything that happens in Vivid likely won't have any sort of major impact on the franchise. Look at Vivid like Full Metal Panic Fumoffu: it's enjoyable and worth the look, but it has no impact on what is presented in the first season and TSR. __________________

2011-09-26, 11:21	Link #1168
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	It's a matter of emotional investment. Readers are less inclined to become invested when there's nothing at stake and they know that whatever happens it inevitably doesn't matter. __________________

2011-09-26, 11:46	Link #1170
mechdra Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	I guess the manga made the first mistake by making Einhart too normal. She should have been abused, on wheelchair, orphan, cyborg, and possibly emo. That way people will start to pay more attention. Am I right? The lack of mad scientist, mass murderer, Squall clone, sadist and cool antagonist make this series worse. Am I right? Worse of all, Vivio did not stand on some random place and scream she felt life is meaningless . Am I right? Speaking of goal in a fighting tournament. Vivio is just like any little girl who wants to join a competition, it is just for fun and test their skills and strength. Nanoha are involved in two major case when she is young. Vivio on the other hand is not involved in anything at all and Force prove this as well. One way to know how strong she is now is by joining a tournament. Last edited by mechdra; 2011-09-26 at 11:58.

2011-09-26, 12:14	Link #1171
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	So give her an actual goal to reach, and motivation to get there and focus on that. Right now, she doesn't even care if she loses before she reaches the finals. Hell, she is even saying that she's not going to get that far. If the main character herself barely even cares whether that she's not going to win, why should the readers? Last edited by Keroko; 2011-09-26 at 14:06.

2011-09-26, 10:20	Link #1161
mechdra Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	I believe Vivid is not lacking in plot. Rather, they are developing it slowly. I guess the three seasons of MGLN that is filled with darkness and emo spoil the fan. Some people could not accept sunshine and rainbow after they had been under a rainy sky for too long and get used to it. This is a slice of life manga and we need to accept that. You may say that it is not important to the story like what is happening in Force but we could not ignore its existance as well.

2011-09-26, 10:56	Link #1163
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	It's not like they were going to spoil future developments in ViVid during that little cameo. One shot of them indicates nothing either way.

2011-09-26, 11:11	Link #1166
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Yeah, not every story needs to upheaval the entire setting to be interesting. That's just unnecessary.

2011-09-26, 11:40	Link #1169
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	For me, the lack of plot is something I can gloss over. Yeah, I would have preferred some plot, but there's enough to balance it out and keep me reading. What is threatening more recently is the lack of a goal. In most tournament stories, the characters have a reason for winning the tournament. Vivio has none, and for being the main character... that's quite a big weakness. Like others said, there's nothing at stake. If they lose, they'll pout, get back to training and try again. No, it doesn't need to have the world at stake, but an actual goal would have been nice.

2011-09-26, 12:40	Link #1172
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Y'know, mechdra, it really, really looks like you're trying to put words in our mouths. Stop it, will you? __________________

2011-09-26, 12:43	Link #1173
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Just because we're critisizing it doesn't mean we think "OMG WORST MANGA EVER!!!" Most of us have said repeatedly what they like about the manga and that they still enjoy it. Still, it's only fluff. Sure, I like cotton candy and all, but would I rather have a nice juicy steak for dinner? You bet. Adding in dark elements can be a detriment too if done improperly. I've recently looked through the later Jinki:Extend volumes and damn right I'm fucking pissed off about how most of the heroines get graphically raped for no damn good reason, especially when it is completely ignored afterwards. It used to be a mecha comedy for pete's sake. __________________

2011-09-26, 18:21	Link #1174
mechdra Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	Hey guys, what I said easrlier are just the elements of MGLN of the past and present. These elements can be found in MGLN, MGLN A's, MGLN Strikers and Force. I am glad that you guys do agree that it is a rainbow filled manga. I guess it is just the dessert of a full course meal.

2011-09-26, 18:22	Link #1175
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	They had a bit of a plot with Einhart at first, but that was wrapped up and there doesn't seem to be much more to it. If they developed that, and ancient belka more, they might have something. Say there is a deliberate memory that Einhart has from Claus, but it's a half-memory and something is missing. Something that led to Olive's death, and Einhart sees similarities between Vivio and Olive (the desire to protect people so much that one is willing to sacrifice their life for it). She doesn't want Vivio to repeat the same thing, and for whatever reason, she feels like it's going to happen. And the tournament is showing her just how weak she and Vivio are, so she has worries she won't be strong enough, just like Claus was. It could have been set up to show that real injury and death is possible in the tournament, and then toss in some people who don't care how much they may injure their opponent in a match. Perhaps a bit cliche, but this was just off the cuff stuff. I'm sure with a bit more thought, one could come up with a story that has everything we've seen so far and a plot. Hell, they could have interspersed this story with flashbacks to Claus and Olive, perhaps mirroring events of back then with the tourney happening today.

2011-09-26, 18:57	Link #1176
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I'm glad they didn't do something like put in flashbacks during other people's fights, honestly. Only letting one or two people be important or cool is a general flaw of most tournament arcs.

2011-09-26, 19:56	Link #1180
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Man, and you guys call me negative on it.