(CR) Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Aren't you underselling the studio's effort a bit much? Aren't studios also responsible for choosing the right person/team to make an adaptation? You know this kind of material can easily go wrong if not treated carefully, right? For latest example, look at Utawarerumono 2 (ugh). Also, the animation here is a lot more than "doesn't look crap". It actually looks great and detailed even above many series this season which is saying much because this season is pretty strong (visually, at least). Give credits when credit's due, girl.

Hey hey hey, slow down, boy. (Or girl, I guess, I don't know.) Studios aren't necessarily responsible for choosing the director and the core staff. Sometimes they are, depending on the extent of their role in production, and there are of course directors belonging more or less exclusively to certain studios. But in case of adaptations where it's usually the publisher that pays most of the costs and calls most of the shots, the core staff are usually recruited by the producers/production company. (Sometimes they even decide on the main voice cast, or at least the seiyuu for the most important characters.) Of course there's a great variation in everything, and since I'm not involved in the production of this show (or any, for that matter) I've no idea what went on behind the scenes in this case.

What I'm trying to say is that anime fans have this habit of attributing everything about an anime to a) the studio, regardless of the extent of their influence in creative matters; or b) the director alone. (Writers, storyboarders, etc. tend to be acknowledged only when they somehow become famous and/or infamous, like Okada Mari.) Even though an anime is rarely a one-man show for the director, or, with some obvious exceptions, a single-company effort of the studio. Anime are usually created with the creative input of many individuals who may or may not be connected to the studio.

(And there's also my personal pet peeve, completely ignoring the source material if it's not well-known enough, which is why I mentioned Sakamichi no Apollon. Everyone kept saying how great Watanabe was for telling such a great story and what a great sense of music he had and everything, even though the anime was almost a panel-by-panel, line-by-line adaptation of the manga... well, streamlined to fit the episode number.)

[revive4563]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Miyukichi is a very charming woman, and it's obvious she's going to be a source of discord between the two friends

Me too. I felt the world of this anime became easier to live because of attractive female.

But I heard from fujoshi friend (online) today that this manga is from real BL magazine. And she said this is a typical Boys Love triangle includes one girl.
Miyo is a role of typical trickster, she said like Kanon said. Nevertheless, even in Japan, this anime is very popular as rakugo anime.
e.g. in Twitter of Japan, many 'light anime fans' recommends this to friends. I suspect they don't know the details.

Well, I too really don't care about original and I really like an atmosphere of early showa era and those veteran seiyuu's truly awesome work.
I think anime staffs changed the world of Rakugo Shinju.

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by revive4563

Me too. I felt the world of this anime became easier to live because of attractive female.

But I heard from fujoshi friend (online) today that this manga is from real BL magazine. And she said this is a typical Boys Love triangle includes one girl.

LOL. No. Just that mangaka previously worked on BL and it's her first non-BL title. They publish it in normal josei magazine.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Hey hey hey, slow down, boy. (Or girl, I guess, I don't know.)

Nah, I’m an Egyptian God-card like my name suggested .

Anyway, when I said credit, I mostly said it in relation to the visuals and animation and the characters being properly presented, which is not only above average but genuinely good (or even great), and you should thank DEEN for that cause in other studios hands, the result might've been not as good.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Studios aren't necessarily responsible for choosing the director and the core staff. Sometimes they are, depending on the extent of their role in production, and there are of course directors belonging more or less exclusively to certain studios. But in case of adaptations where it's usually the publisher that pays most of the costs and calls most of the shots, the core staff are usually recruited by the producers/production company. (Sometimes they even decide on the main voice cast, or at least the seiyuu for the most important characters.) Of course there's a great variation in everything, and since I'm not involved in the production of this show (or any, for that matter) I've no idea what went on behind the scenes in this case.

Then stop acting like you know that the studio do not do that much effort by selling them short. The fact being, the adaptation so far is good and we have the studio and the entire team of people who worked on this anime to thank for until more details are revelead.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Anime are usually created with the creative input of many individuals who may or may not be connected to the studio.

The team who worked on this anime was working under the big umbrella of DEEN and the publisher at the time. So there's nothing wrong about people taking the most practical route to mention the studio's name as a way to appreciate the entire team who worked on it. I mean, let's be serious here, nobody would just casually mention each and every important members of the anime-team just to thank and appreciate their works unless they're writing a review on it or something. For example, I'd rather say "Studio Ghibli did a tremendous job with Mononoke Hime" instead of "Hayao Miyazaki, Isao Takahata, Joe Hisaishi, Atsushi Oku, Takeshi Seyama, Toshio Suzuki, etc did a tremendous job with Mononoke Hime" in a comment unless I'm writing a serious review .

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

(And there's also my personal pet peeve, completely ignoring the source material if it's not well-known enough, which is why I mentioned Sakamichi no Apollon. Everyone kept saying how great Watanabe was for telling such a great story and what a great sense of music he had and everything, even though the anime was almost a panel-by-panel, line-by-line adaptation of the manga... well, streamlined to fit the episode number.)

I rarely see anybody underestimating the source in this thread. So this shouldn't be a problem here, at least. The lack of mention of the source can just mean that many are just not familiar with it, which is not inherently bad.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by revive4563

But I heard from fujoshi friend (online) today that this manga is from real BL magazine. And she said this is a typical Boys Love triangle includes one girl.

Your friend is wrong, the manga is published in Itan which is very much not a BL mag. (It originated from the editorial dept. of Be Love which, despite the initials, is also very much not a BL mag. In fact Kodansha lists Itan in their shoujo-josei magazine group.) Also, your friend should probably branch out a little in terms of BL.

That said, Kumota is in fact a BL mangaka, so there's that. It's bromance if you want it to be, but I'd bet actual money that the interpretation without the "b" is closer to what the mangaka had in mind. And anyway, BL mangaka or not, it's not like a manga has to be BL to have a m/m romance of any kind.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Nah, I’m an Egyptian God-card like my name suggested .

If we go by handles I must be very sweet...

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Anyway, when I said credit, I mostly said it in relation to the visuals and animation and the characters being properly presented, which is not only above average but genuinely good (or even great), and you should thank DEEN for that cause in other studios hands, the result might've been not as good.

But you say this because this is the only version that we know. Obviously KyoAni or PAW would've done this show differently because they have their own signature style that they enforce, which is why they would've never handled this anime, not that they would've wanted to. But it's not like it had to be DEEN otherwise it would've sucked. And the characters being properly presented, if you don't mean it in an on/off model sense then it's again not a studio issue but a writing one.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Then stop acting like you know that the studio do not do that much effort by selling them short. The fact being, the adaptation so far is good and we have the studio and the entire team of people who worked on this anime to thank for until more details are revelead.

But you don't know more either... The adaptation is in fact good, but it's selling the entire creative team short (including the producers, for that matter) by making it sound like it's all thanks to DEEN as if the people working on this show all belonged to the studio.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The team who worked on this anime was working under the big umbrella of DEEN and the publisher at the time.

At what time? The director has also worked on a bunch of shows for other studios, the head writer, the episode directors, the animation directors as well... (I'm not sure how the publisher comes into the picture.) They're not DEEN exclusive staff.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I rarely see anybody underestimating the source in this thread. So this shouldn't be a problem here, at least. The lack of mention of the source can just mean that many are just not familiar with it, which is not inherently bad.

Maybe not here, but I keep hearing people talking like this is an anime original story, which is pretty annoying. (As in, praising the director/studio for the great characters, etc. The manga tends to come up when people argue about whether it's BL or not. )

Anyway, we're probably not going to agree so let's just leave it at that.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

What I'm trying to say is that anime fans have this habit of attributing everything about an anime to a) the studio, regardless of the extent of their influence in creative matters; or b) the director alone. (Writers, storyboarders, etc. tend to be acknowledged only when they somehow become famous and/or infamous, like Okada Mari.) Even though an anime is rarely a one-man show for the director, or, with some obvious exceptions, a single-company effort of the studio. Anime are usually created with the creative input of many individuals who may or may not be connected to the studio.

Are you sure you want fans taking much notice of screenwriters? One of the writers I like only seems to get noticed when fans are looking for someone to hate on. (I also feel said writer often gets blamed for creative decisions that weren't necessarily his, because a lot of anime fans don't have a very good idea of how anime writing works. Oftentimes anime writers are working to realize the creative vision of someone else like the director. And that's not even getting into how their scripts can be altered at later stages of the production process.)

I also feel the studio and director deserve some credit on this one. It may be an adaptation but making material like this work well in this format takes some skill.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But you say this because this is the only version that we know.

Yes, and this animated version is great to me, so I don't see any problems. I mean, I'm already satisfied by it (so far) like Ufotables' adaptation of KnK or WIT's Shingeki no Kyojin.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

And the characters being properly presented, if you don't mean it in an on/off model sense then it's again not a studio issue but a writing one.

I do mean it in a visual way.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

At what time?

When they are working on the anime. Didn't they do it in the studio?

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

(I'm not sure how the publisher comes into the picture.)

You said it yourself: "usually the publisher that pays most of the costs and calls most of the shots"

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

The director has also worked on a bunch of shows for other studios, the head writer, the episode directors, the animation directors as well... They're not DEEN exclusive staff.

They were working with DEEN, and some people like to simplify that by mentioning just DEEN as an "umbrella" to cover the entire team in casual comments without any intention of being disrespectful to anyone who has worked on it. Again, you can't expect commenters to list all the members' names of the team in casual short comments outside of a (mini) review or essay or something like that. Mentioning just the studio is their way (aka. shortcut) to thank all that's involved.

Of course, there are (many) ignorant people out there like you said, but not all of them who only mentioned the studio's name are ignorant.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But you don't know more either... The adaptation is in fact good, but it's selling the entire creative team short (including the producers, for that matter) by making it sound like it's all thanks to DEEN as if the people working on this show all belonged to the studio.

See my answers above.

[HandofFate]

watched 04.
man, the pressure and mood of him wanting to get better but being tied down with life obligations, and just watching his friend get better and better leaving him behind is portrayed so real.

the geisha woman is pretty alluring.

[Beobachter]

DEEN certainly deserves plenty of credit for the show. I see that it's getting a bit off model here and there, but it's personally something I don't really mind unless it get to the point that I can't recognize the character anymore Plenty of great visual details (check out the backstage scene in the latest episode where Kiku is literally obscured by Sukeroku's shadow) and sound work, especially during the rakugo performances.

But,

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

(And there's also my personal pet peeve, completely ignoring the source material if it's not well-known enough, which is why I mentioned Sakamichi no Apollon. Everyone kept saying how great Watanabe was for telling such a great story and what a great sense of music he had and everything, even though the anime was almost a panel-by-panel, line-by-line adaptation of the manga... well, streamlined to fit the episode number.)

I totally feel you there. Apollon's a great example, and I also feel the same way about Ping Pong (Masaaki Yuasa as director and Taiyou Matsumoto as the original writer). While it's rather understandable for anime-only viewers not wanting to care about the manga (especially as I understand manga readers can be very annoying and nitpicky about adaptation details), it still feels wrong to highlight only the big-name studio/staffers and fail to credit the mangaka (which is something you can always do even if you don't read the manga), especially when you're talking about the general strengths of writing/characters. That's common practice though, even for established reviewers *shrug*

Anyway, on topic: yet another superb rakugo performance, really enjoy Sukeroku's delivery of the story. Myokichi's entrance doesn't exactly enthrall me, but hopefully she gets more characterization soon beyond stereotypical thirsty vixen. I also hope there's enough time to get back to the present timeline and show Yotaro and Konatsu developing as performers as well.

[BPD Renegade]

No Kiku, no! There are bad vibes from that woman! Don't you sense those bad vibes? That aside, what a captivating episode. For some reason, the scenery stood out to me so much, especially in the early part of the episode as Kiku and Sugu are walking the streets. Thanks, zztop, for posting that pic. Man, between this show's Tokyo and Vanitas' Paris, I've been getting quite the scenery porn recently. The rakugo this time around was fun as well. It didn't draw me in until the murder plan came about, but once it did, it really was as if I was in the audience wanting to hear the rest. Good thing they gave it to us.

Side note: Kanon ended up being right. Looks like it's going to be a woman after all.

[DragoonKain3]

"You don't undress me like the other guys do." Well no shit, since Kiku is gay for Senroku. He only followed Miyo because Kiku tried to make Senroku jealous by telling him of her invation, but failed miserably.

[Benigmatica]

Episode 4:
While Kikuhiko looked great in his waiter uniform, Megumi Hayashibara's sexy voice captivated me on this episode!

Still, I feel that it's gonna turn for the worse when Sukeroku becomes the third wheel between Kikuhiko and Miyokichi's relationship.

[Bakaizer]

screw boku dake, this is AOTS

[Kanon]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-volume/.98363

Do we know how many episodes the anime will have? I'm hoping they've planned for the anime to adapt everything.

[kuromitsu]

Just as I expected...

I think this means that the anime will complete the story. Well, they'll have to cut a lot to squeeze 5 volumes into ~5-6 episodes...

ETA
Whoa, the volume cover is a total spoiler... guys, why you do this when the anime is still airing... (I mean I guess it's not very surprising but still.)

[Kismet-chan]

I think ANN changed the volume cover at the last moment, so it's all good now. It's showing the 1st volume.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Just as I expected...

I think this means that the anime will complete the story. Well, they'll have to cut a lot to squeeze 5 volumes into ~5-6 episodes...

ETA
Whoa, the volume cover is a total spoiler... guys, why you do this when the anime is still airing... (I mean I guess it's not very surprising but still.)

Darn, now I'm not sure if I want to check it or not.

[Stark700]

Episode 5:

Lol, Kiku dressed as a woman. Nice.



The comedy along with the rakugo performance is brilliant, so much better from the first episode when he made the stage. I think Miyokichi brings the best out of Kiku.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

I think ANN changed the volume cover at the last moment, so it's all good now. It's showing the 1st volume.

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

Darn, now I'm not sure if I want to check it or not.

Ah, the cover in the ANN article is fine, sorry I wasn't clear. It's the volume for volume 1. I just came across the cover for volume 10 on Twitter (thanks, Natalie), and I wonder why they didn't think of people who are just watching the anime. It's nothing surprising after you get to a certain part of the story (or, well, if you're genre savvy enough it's really easy to guess), but the anime is nowhere near that part yet...

In the meanwhile I continue to have an ambiguous relationship with the show, that's really not the anime's fault at all, it's just... I kind of hoped that the parts I didn't like about the manga would somehow come off better in the anime, but it doesn't seem to be the case. The things I enjoyed are still there, plus the great voice acting and other things the anime does really well, but I guess I'm too hung up on the parts that I didn't enjoy.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

I think ANN changed the volume cover at the last moment, so it's all good now. It's showing the 1st volume.

The spoilery cover showed up in my RSS feed. Not that it's something I wouldn't have guessed at anyway, though. I looked at it and thought, "Well yeah, that makes sense."