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Old 2017-07-16, 00:24   Link #681
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And it is not for the rest of us to tell them how they should lose their healthcare.
Then stop. You keep preaching to "Americans", but guess what? The Americans on this forum (ie: the ones who can actually see your message) already get what you're saying. You're not actually creating discussion, you're just ranting at an invisible group of people who aren't here.
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Old 2017-07-16, 01:07   Link #682
shadow1296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Then stop. You keep preaching to "Americans", but guess what? The Americans on this forum (ie: the ones who can actually see your message) already get what you're saying. You're not actually creating discussion, you're just ranting at an invisible group of people who aren't here.
he is not going to stop as long as there is a thread like this one, if this thread only kept to making fun of his tweets then great he posts stupid tweets but it hasn't it's become a place for people like valiant to rant and rave, and you know what i really don't even care
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Old 2017-07-16, 06:07   Link #683
The Green One
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You know last time I checked it was ok to have a different opinion about something.
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Old 2017-07-16, 09:57   Link #684
shadow1296
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
You know last time I checked it was ok to have a different opinion about something.
I am not saying, that it isn't okay to have a different opinions, I was saying that this thread has morphed from what is was supposed to be, a thread created to make fun of trump tweets has become a place where anything and I mean anything he does in office someone comes in and rants about him, and all they do mostly is repeat what they said from day one, if anything we should change the title of this thread to Trump rants at this point.
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Old 2017-07-16, 10:18   Link #685
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
I am not saying, that it isn't okay to have a different opinions, I was saying that this thread has morphed from what is was supposed to be, a thread created to make fun of trump tweets has become a place where anything and I mean anything he does in office someone comes in and rants about him, and all they do mostly is repeat what they said from day one, if anything we should change the title of this thread to Trump rants at this point.
then why you don't post some "good posts" about what he did "good" for peoples to talk too???, because so far the problem is that which taking one thing which he deed good, he basically did bad things and most of his twitters are his rant/insult peoples that is the big problem when you have someone doing so hard in being "so bad" make hard to bring good things specially on his twitter, where 80 or 90% of then are just him act like a spoiler kid, even his "republicians fellowships are start to complain over his crap twitters too, to show how he is doing really bad.

he managed to break his party almost in half making hard for he do anything because even the senators which where supposed to be on his side, are turning they backs to him.

some more news:
looks like even fox news channel is having problem with they workers because of trump
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...ews-trump-lies

and, now he want to boss around UK in order to pay a visit
http://news.sky.com/story/president-...r-him-10950212

that is why is so common have that posts because this is what happening most of the times with trump, basically a guy which have a lot of issues.
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Last edited by Blueknight78; 2017-07-16 at 10:32.
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Old 2017-07-16, 10:42   Link #686
shadow1296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
then why you don't post some "good posts" about what he did "good" for peoples to talk too???, because so far the problem is that which taking one thing which he deed good, he basically did bad things and most of his twitters are his rant/insult peoples that is the big problem when you have someone doing so hard in being "so bad" make hard to bring good things specially on his twitter, where 80 or 90% of then are just him act like a spoiler kid, even his "republicians fellowships are start to complain over his crap twitters too, to show how he is doing really bad.

he managed to break his party almost in half making hard for he do anything because even the senators which where supposed to be on his side, are turning they backs to him.
Even if I did would you even believe it, no honestly would you? For example several several Americans believed Obamacare was a mistake, not because it gave free healthcare but because the amount of money it was going to cost was going to cause more problems in America then the benefits it was going to give, so a lot of Americans believe it was a good idea to repeal it, but try to bring that up here and 90% of the people in the thread will call Americans are stupid for allowing trump to get rid of it and won't even listen to the other side of it, I am not a trump supporter by any means but even I can see this thread isn't the place where can be
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Old 2017-07-16, 10:58   Link #687
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
Even if I did would you even believe it, no honestly would you? For example several several Americans believed Obamacare was a mistake, not because it gave free healthcare but because the amount of money it was going to cost was going to cause more problems in America then the benefits it was going to give, so a lot of Americans believe it was a good idea to repeal it, but try to bring that up here and 90% of the people in the thread will call Americans are stupid for allowing trump to get rid of it and won't even listen to the other side of it, I am not a trump supporter by any means but even I can see this thread isn't the place where can be
why not??? if it's true then we have a reason to believe, i'm not a die hard hater of trump, or i believe which many of peoples posting here also are, when he do something right peoples not gonna bang and act like him don't did it, because if was true then the peoples doing it where not different from peoples supporting trump, because a truth is a truth and a lie is a lie no matter how "hardcore he", one big truth is his rule in USA is being a very bad one where all his crap actions and decisions are put in check american's believe on his leadership, which honestly is falling apart, currently trump approval is around 36%, with 58% of disapproval, peoples totally anger over trump goes to 48% and others crap numbers, neither obama or bill cliton or even bush did that bad and while "as you told" few peoples believed which obama was bad as trump the opposite is what happening now with a large ammount of peoples believing which trump is really a bad news, because honestly speaking he is currently being a bad news because he don't even try to hide his bad side, while i give kudos to trump in being "honest" like this in not trying to fake be a "nice guy" at same time for a country ruler this put him in almost the same places as guys like the north korean dictator where you have a crazy dudy rulling a country.
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Old 2017-07-16, 13:16   Link #688
Eisdrache
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I'm not going to read this paragraph that apparently is just one very long sentence.

Anyway, the only person here who truly wants to get rid of Obamacare is frivolity. Last time we discussed the matter he had an excuse for literally everything. That aside I don't think anyone else disagrees that while Obamacare is a step into the right direction it has problems and is far from perfect. It's not that we are annoyed that Trump wants to repeal it, but that he wants to repeal with the sorry excuse that is the ACA republican health care plan. Most of us are able to discuss topics in a perfectly civil manner.

edit: confused the names

Last edited by Eisdrache; 2017-07-16 at 15:00.
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Old 2017-07-16, 13:24   Link #689
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
For example several several Americans believed Obamacare was a mistake, not because it gave free healthcare but because the amount of money it was going to cost was going to cause more problems in America then the benefits it was going to give, so a lot of Americans believe it was a good idea to repeal it
First, in states that accepted Medicaid as part of the ACA, Obamacare is doing fairly well. In Kentucky, where the ACA was implemented, the proportion of uninsureds is five percent; in next-door Tennessee, which refused to join the program it's eleven percent. There are problems with the exchanges mostly having to do with younger people opting to pay the penalty than buy insurance. That's because the penalty is much too low. There were also structures included in the ACA to ease the transition by insurers; the Republicans sabotaged this program last year.

Second, I don't see the disastrous economic consequences that were foretold by Republican skeptics. The ACA has not thrown the economy into recession, nor is there much evidence that the economy would be growing faster without the ACA. What we do know for certain is that many millions of Americans now have health insurance who did not have it before. In addition, though many Americans believe the myth that they are over-taxed, in fact taxation as a percentage of GDP in the US falls near the bottom of the OECD's league tables. The average OECD country collects about 34 percent of GDP in taxes; in the US, the figure is about 25 percent. America is an enormously wealthy country that could afford to pay for health insurance for everyone like our advanced industrial peers, especially if we stopped over-spending on our military.

Next, neither of the Republican proposals is a health-care plan. Both are designed to give an enormous tax cut to the wealthy. To finance this, the Republicans choose to cut Medicaid, a program they have long wanted to demolish. The Medicaid funding changes in the Senate bill go far beyond simply reducing the size of the Medicaid funds for the ACA. It would cut all Medicaid funds, cap them, and send the money to the states in block grants to let them spend at their discretion with little Federal regulation. Medicaid covers many Americans who aren't poor or on the ACA exchanges. Many elderly in nursing homes and disabled Americans depend on Medicaid. It is now the single largest health insurer in the US covering 81 million people, nearly half of whom are children.

The few health-care provisions in the bill are laughable, particularly the "health savings accounts." These would let people set aside savings in tax-free instruments to cover unexpected medical costs. That sounds well and good until you realize that nearly six out of every ten American adults could not lay their hands on an extra $500 in an emergency. Where are they going to get the money to put into health savings accounts?

Abolishing the individual mandate or allowing junk insurance plans as Cruz proposed demonstrates a total lack of understanding about how insurance and risk pools work. Look at Republican complaints about the mandated coverages in Obamacare plans that Cruz would like to abolish. Many men said they shouldn't have to pay to cover maternity benefits. Frankly, I'm happy that women paid into my insurance plan to cover my prostate cancer, and I'm happy to help pay for childbirths. That's how insurance works, and one reason why single-payer models make the most sense.

By the way, the ACA did not create "free healthcare." People who sign up on the exchanges pay premiums depending on the type of plan chosen. Their costs are subsidized on a sliding-scale based on income. Many Obamacare recipients pay monthly premiums for their insurance just like those on private plans do.

And, finally, a majority of Americans now tell pollsters that they support the ACA, despite intense Republican propaganda claiming the plan is a failure. In contrast only 17 percent of Americans supported the House Republican "reforms" in March. The Senate plan has fared little better.
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Old 2017-07-16, 13:59   Link #690
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
Even if I did would you even believe it, no honestly would you? For example several several Americans believed Obamacare was a mistake, not because it gave free healthcare but because the amount of money it was going to cost was going to cause more problems in America then the benefits it was going to give, so a lot of Americans believe it was a good idea to repeal it, but try to bring that up here and 90% of the people in the thread will call Americans are stupid for allowing trump to get rid of it and won't even listen to the other side of it, I am not a trump supporter by any means but even I can see this thread isn't the place where can be
People here are open to rational, civil discussion. You brought up repeal of ACA. There's no credible person out there that does not acknowledge that ACA has problems, but don't bullshit us with the idea that Trump is trying to "fix" it. Trump made sweeping claims about providing more, better coverage at affordable prices while pledging not to cut Medicaid and protecting people with preexisting conditions. If you can explain how the current health care bill achieves that, I'm all ears.

What Republicans cannot seem to admit for the most part aside from die hard conservatives is that they don't feel the other 80% of the health care market should share the cost burden for those less fortunate in the 20%. Some will use the excuse of not wanting to pay for people's bad lifestyle decisions, but if we're going to establish a basic moral principle in society that we want everybody to get care you need to work with solutions based in reality.

The sad thing is that ACA was the market based solution to health care and Republicans have been trying to tear it down by any means necessary whether it be by blocking medicaid expansions in states, blocking introducing a medicare buy in for older people, or getting rid of the insurance risk corridors. There are ways to fix the problems with ACA and real ideas to reduce cost in the insurance market but nothing they're doing right now achieves that.
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Old 2017-07-16, 17:39   Link #691
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Then stop. You keep preaching to "Americans", but guess what? The Americans on this forum (ie: the ones who can actually see your message) already get what you're saying. You're not actually creating discussion, you're just ranting at an invisible group of people who aren't here.
As is already demonstrated, over and over, Trump supporters are definitely here. And so are people who refuse to vote at all. So You are 100% wrong that the people I am speaking to are either invisible or absent.
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Old 2017-07-16, 17:55   Link #692
Sheba
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They comes here much less than they used to. That person who was asked to name more than 3 things Trump did right just did not show up anymore. The others figured out that its pointless arguing here, or just prefer their spaces on twitter or /pol/.
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Old 2017-07-16, 18:56   Link #693
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
They comes here much less than they used to. That person who was asked to name more than 3 things Trump did right just did not show up anymore. The others figured out that its pointless arguing here, or just prefer their spaces on twitter or /pol/.
We still have Americans here who refuse to vote, who have more effect on the outcome of elections than actual voters due to the sheer number of them.
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Old 2017-07-16, 22:12   Link #694
The Green One
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That and the Russians. They sure had an effect on the election.
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Old 2017-07-17, 02:10   Link #695
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
We still have Americans here who refuse to vote, who have more effect on the outcome of elections than actual voters due to the sheer number of them.
That is, if their potential vote would differ with those than did vote. There's the possibility than they would be much different than the rest of the population and then not change much of the result save for the total number of vote.

Those than probably could hade make more of a difference would had been those than been prevented to vote by the vote suppression tactic present in many red state.
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Old 2017-07-17, 05:45   Link #696
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
As is already demonstrated, over and over, Trump supporters are definitely here. And so are people who refuse to vote at all. So You are 100% wrong that the people I am speaking to are either invisible or absent.
The majority of Trump supporters here aren't even Americans. Most are from Europe, from what I've seen. But that isn't a hard majority to grasp when there was only like... 5 of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
We still have Americans here who refuse to vote, who have more effect on the outcome of elections than actual voters due to the sheer number of them.
What Americans here didn't vote and were of legal capacity to do so?
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Old 2017-07-17, 19:39   Link #697
Akuma Kousaka
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Quote:
Senate keeps Obamacare protections for themselves and nobody else

—The senators exempt themselves from the loss of consumer protections. A convoluted provision in the amended measure exempts Congress and its staff members from the loss of guarantees for those with preexisting conditions and other consumer protections.

You won’t find the words “Congress” and “exemption” next to each other anywhere in the bill. You have to know that “1312(d)(3)(D)” is the provision of the Affordable Care Act requiring members of Congress and their staffs to obtain coverage through the Obamacare exchanges, and then notice, on Page 167 of the Senate bill, that the elimination of consumer protections is “non-applicable” to that section.
It is continually fascinating how the GOP railed against the Affordable Care Act only to find a way to keep it for themselves. Aside from violating equal treatment under the law, it's easy to wonder if they realize the futility of fighting the tides of history to socialize healthcare
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Old 2017-07-17, 19:47   Link #698
The Green One
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[sarcasm]Wow, hypocrisy in politics, what a new and unexpected concept.[/sarcasm]
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Old 2017-07-17, 20:18   Link #699
Akuma Kousaka
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http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...connell-240646

That was fast
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Old 2017-07-17, 23:21   Link #700
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka View Post
It is continually fascinating how the GOP railed against the Affordable Care Act only to find a way to keep it for themselves. Aside from violating equal treatment under the law, it's easy to wonder if they realize the futility of fighting the tides of history to socialize healthcare
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka View Post
well looks like overall really don't matter the place but politicians are almost aways a cance and a trouble and only care for themselfs and get rich and health at the cost of the peoples.

and looks like trump is really having a big acomplishment, since looks like the republicians don't want to drop anymore obamacare since they are incapable to pull something "better" or less worst without damage themself for the next elections:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...o-nixon-215384
looks like he will be able to be even worst than nixon was in the past.


it's really fun how much trump age is damaging like that the republician party and the democrats are laughting at all the mess being done by the poor republician choice as president to support.
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