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Old 2021-08-04, 06:29   Link #3601
tsunade666
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I'm more interested on what's proxia or rather the emperor and reiss plan than other stuff. They knew too much.
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Old 2021-08-04, 08:17   Link #3602
Alisa~Chan~
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^@tsunade666Me too~ with how much influence Reiss have over a lot of people they can easily throw a wrench into Galark's side regarding Rio's situation of being royalty~ i can easily see him using his alias to create some chaos in their midst while also brewing some future trouble as he uses the Earth Hero to damage them~
Also~ I don't know if your talking about the same thing as everyone else~
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Old 2021-08-04, 10:54   Link #3603
jagt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbold View Post
On the Phillip part. While in a rational and legal system, that would be absolutely true. The issue is that we know none of them actually adhere to these laws. IIRC, Rio being tortured to confess because Arbor was afraid of the punishment his family would suffer if his family was blamed. And given what the Arbors did, is it really all that hard to believe that these nobles would just make up any excuse to get what they want? These nobles arbitrarily carry out the rules they want when they want. Also, Beltrum is an example of the very thing you mentioned "without a law or system that doesn't rewad or punish with proportionality no one will ever follow you, because they will just live wondering when they will be next if they get in your bad side for whatever reason".
This country is so rotten that it is a wonder it lasted this long. Christina cringed when Francois made a comment about incentives for loyalty by rewarding valor, because her country doesn't do that, they frame the competent for fear of losing status.

I mentioned way back that framing Rio as the king would have been useful if that wasn't the only realist political decision he made. Phillip clearly struggled to do anything substantive as king, as you mentioned about holding the Arbors back. He had stripped the Arbors of their power in Volume 1 and in a few years they were able to get it all back and then some. Even with Reiss, that shows an issue of capability in both his followers and his leadership. If Phillip's reign was highlighted by multiple morally repugnant but politically smart choices, then framing Rio would not be so jarring. But his ineptness elsewhere is what is off-putting.

On Rio's ancestry. I guess the gossip and its effect depend on how it spreads and from who. Revealed by Reiss in public is different than revealed by Gregory or Francois. But I agree that formal acknowledgement is not likely going to happen.

I agree on Hiroaki.

On Aki and Seirei no Tami. I guess this is the legalese in me, but would that hold even if it was unintentional? Plus, I also mentioned that the village could become inadvertently brought up by some other factor. I previously mentioned how Gouki's entourage made it with children in a relatively short time (relative being the operative word lol). That would bring to question either: the truth of being from Yagumo and not somewhere else; how far Yagumo really is; or is there some pathway that is faster/more secure?
Also, Reiss knows about Seirei no Tami too. So he could plant the seeds.
Anyway, back to topic on Aki: Could Aki acknowledge the village in any scenario with no intent to harm it and that leads to it being harm because the existence is revealed or confirmed? Or is it an absolute ban on revealing its existence, period?

While I don't think Aki is quite on the level of villain, she is desperate to be loved. Is it so hard to believe that Takatrash would snap again, but this time carry out a more deceptive way that fools even Aki? Granted, I don't think that is likely right now. But he is willing to sink to any level to get what he wants, I can see him killing Aki to get Miharu if necessary.
Please let's remember that what happened to Rio in volume 1 was an isolated ocurrence and not the rule, where the unreasnonableness was carried out not by Philip or the system but by Charles and his subordinates as individuals and that later what happened to Rio added to their punishment for Flora's incident. Note too that there's difference in blending the law against a commoner instead that against a fellow noble, the concerned parties can certainly make excuses and strugle as much as they want, but against an opponent with actual power and without the interests of the one in charge of making the final decision aligning with yours that has its limits. Rio's case proceeded so smoothly because he was someone without any power and the interests of the party in charge of making decisions were against him, against a noble opponent the necessary factors for things to go so smoothly don't occur. If they don't keep the things fair to an extent betweem people of the same status they will riot and the system collapse. China, Japan, Europe... there are enough examples of a feudal sysem being able to keep running for hundreds or thousands of years despite not treating equally the people of different status. Even now the justice still treats better people with money than people without it but the countries still stand strong regardless of it, Bertram lasting is nothing strange at all. Let's take into account too that the rottenness of anyone's heart is unrelated to their management abilities, by example, Rio recognizes Rodania as well ruled despite his image of Rodan and Hugenot.

Since you quoted François let's remember too that what François said comes from his selfinterest and not his selfrighteouness, words are carried away by the wind and in François' case his weren't his feelings, they were an excuse for making Rio accept his reward for making his tie to him stronger, not his way of being adamant about social justice, François wants to be on Rio's good side because he things it will be better for his kingdom to do so, François also said in volume 10 that the national interest takes priority, so to say, François will remain on Rio's side as long as his interests and the kingdom's align, not a second longer. Let's not forget either that François' way of treating Rio is facing strong opposition despite what he says in front of Rio, that he's barely managing because Liselotte's father is on his side and Rio's achievements being too big to ignore, without these three things François would be way more limited on his ways of dealing with Rio.

You also can't make critics about Philip's rule or decisions aside of Rio's framing because you don't know about them. There isn't a single word anywhere about what Philip did or did not between Arbor's destitution and Rio's framing and between Rio's framing and Arbor's treason. Arbor managed to recover his lost power during the five years between Flora's kidnapping and Rio's framing, this must be Philip's fault. There isn't any single hard fact that can back that opinion. How did Arbor recover this power? Was there anything Philip could have done for stopping it? If there was, what was that Philip didn't do for stopping it? Why didn't he do it? What did Philip strugle with and what did Philip not strugle with? What hard decisions did Philip have to make? What hard decisions did Philip not make despite having too? Criticising Philip without the answers to any of this is just trashtalk him without evidence and nobody knows the answers to any of this because they aren't writen anywhere in the books.

It is likely for Reis to not know about Rio's royal lineage or that he ever went to the Yagumo region and met his family, when he saw Gouki's group with Ouphia he was panicking because he had absolutely not idea where and why they were there or their possible relationship with Rio. Even if Reis had known he wouldn't tell anyone, he won't enlarge Rio's legend when he's an enemy, revealing that Rio has royal origins will just take away from his detractors the excuse of Rio being a commoner for being against him and has no possible negative effect on him. He can't also tell to anybody that the charges against Rio are false because he can't present any evidence of it without admitting that he himself and/or someone at his orders were present at the place during the incident, if Reis reveals Rio's identity to whoever and that whoever tries to use it against Rio it will just end with Christina and Flora cleaning Rio's name that very moment anyway.

About Aki, impossible is impossible, she can't reveal the village's existence in absolutely any direct or indirect way, they have already lived with Takatrash for months and nobody in Centostella is the wiser about their life before being reunited with Takatrash or the spirit arts, I think that is prove enough of the tightness of Aki's and Masato's mouths. Aki doesn't see anymore Takatrash as someone to rely on, she learned her lesson, she's perfectly aware that her current situation is for something she did with her own hands and it is what it despairs her the most, she won't fall for Takatrash's words a second time. By the way don't overstimate Takatrash, the kidnapping plan in the end was just him dancing on Liliana's palm after all, not his wits, he isn't that smart, if he's used in any way in Reis' plans ever at maximum it would something like Reis appearing suddenly, awakening him forcefully so the beast inside him goes berserk and Rio has to deal with it. Maybe Reis will try to use Aki and or Masato as hostages against Rio or something, but that's it

Reiss won't reveal the village's existance either, his biggest advantage is the quantity of ancient knowledge he posses compared to the rest, that advantage will disappear if he makes anyone invade the village and gain that same knowledge. Reis can't take the village down alone either, the village warriors would make quick work of his monsters just like Sara, Ouphia and Alma. Pseudo-magic sword users don't stand a chance from a numbers or strength point of view either, thanks to Rio's training the martial skills of the village's warriors also rose, so trying to hold on with technique will be impossible, the evil wyvern Reis controls could so damage but would eventually die, Reis can't afford either to lose that thing before defeating Rio.

About Gouki's group, nobody knows when he left the Yagumo region, so they don't know their travel time, they can't verify any possible lie he may tell about his travelling speed, Gouki has no obligation of letting himself be cronometered while he makes the trip, they don't have any obligation of giving any information about all of that in the first place, if someone suspects there is a faster way they can tell that person to feel free of going to look for it and that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denker View Post
As much as I follow the logic of Philip, and can understand most f his decisions, he simply lacked the foresight of having to deal with the Proxia Empire's meddling into his internal affairs.
It may sound unfair, but this is exactly why, in a bloody monarchy of all things, its important to "clean house" and properly remove opposition. Otherwise, if they aren't the ones to get in your way, it will be external forces supporting them.
This is a tale as old as monarchy itself.

Still, I want to shout out to the absolute madlad that is @jagt as he went straight to making Philip offer his daughters to Rio as amends.
The reason Christina was terrified is not because "Rio is the MC, so if you wrong him you die" or even because he is crazy strong. Its because they mistreated royalty of all things. Didn't Christina herself say that even if he wasn't in the succession line, this still could be a problem?
And since you confirmed the enemy Kingdom of Karasuki isn't allied with Galwark, then thats even better, since there is nothing to suspect him of being a sort of infiltrator about.

I am convinced this would absolutely destroy Restoration.
Say what you want about Huguenot, he is one of the most important pillars there. Even if him framing + sending assassins after unrecognized royalty won't be punishable with death, he would be put in the shitlist of everyone around him.
Some may lose interest in being associated to him out of fear of being on the princessses + Rio's bad side, unless they were already in deep relations with him.
Yes, he would most likely have to "retire" and give up his title to his successor, but would he let it end like that? Someone like him wouldn't let go of his power.
This is why I like my idea of Reiss trying ot manipulate him.

Regardless, I am totally on board with your ideea. "Oh, we mistreated, framed and sent to kill the strongest man on the continent who is also royalty? Ok, marry my 2 daughters! Make love, not war! Speaking of war, since you got 2 princesses, would you mind taking the Proxia Empire off our territory, son-in-law?"
Yes, removing the opposition is a basic thing. I never questioned that, what I mean to say is that we can't criticize Philip for not doing it without knowing what he tried or didn't try for doing it, the result of his possible attempts, the reason of a possible failure or imposibleness of getting rid of Helmut or if he ever had a real chance of doing it or not. We know nothing of what happened outside of Rio's point of view.

The matter of Christina and Flora, Rio told Chrisitna and Flora they don't need to mind his royal origins because he doesn't think of himself as royalty, Christina told Rio that regardless of his selfawareness if the country his mother comes from is related to the Bertram kingdom there would be a lot of international problems and that what was done to him is unforgivable even if he isn't of royal origin, that were their words.

Let me make clear that I'm a law respecting citizen with modern values that finds that kind of deals disgusting and unacceptable, but what matters here isn't my feelings or thoughts, it is what it is generally accepted in the world inside the books, this a talk about that, and in that kind of medieval society using your daughters in that kind of way is generally accepted and even considered common sense, something they praise each other for if they do it skillfully, if I went directly to Christina and Flora being offered to Rio it is because that is what I think the society inside the books would consider the natural way of settling things, you phrased it as a joke and it would jarr me as much as it would you, but if society at large considers Christina and Flora a fair prize for requesting Rio's help and/or for him to let go of the framing matter, then Rio would be seen as the bad guy if he doesn't.

About Hugenot, of course he won't go down silently. I said here several times already that I think what will make Christina and Flora to be with Rio is him having to save them somehow from a future treason by Hugenot, this coming from Hugenot thinking Christina and Flora will sell him out for Rio's sake. Or didn't I?
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Old 2021-08-04, 16:59   Link #3604
Denker
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@jagt my point with Philip is that he failed regardess, and will most likely go down the story as a failure... Unless he legit pulls off that deal and gets Rio to push back the Proxia Empire. Then he would be hereby named King Stonks: His Kingdom for his daughters marrying the guy they like!

And thats what I found funny about your idea. I am not mocking you nor putting your law-abiding morals into question. I find it funnny because this is the one deal with arrenged marriage these 2 would be happy about, since they already like him.
Honestly, there is far more of a chance that he would be feel pressured because, as you said, rejecting would paint him as the bad guy, and these 2's honor sullied or whatever, so these 2 would also feel awful for it.
I hope we don't get to this part until Rio has the harem-making mentality set and ready.

Thanks for clarifying the part about how much of an issue it his legitimacy would be though.

I didn't question what you said previously about Huguenot, but rather how Restoration would be the one to receive a heavy blow. It seemed like you were diminishing the possible damage the organization as a whole would receive... Which is perfectly possible as well.
The author could just decide this won't be a heavy blow, but rather a slight inconvenience as you say.
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Old 2021-08-04, 22:19   Link #3605
Alisa~Chan~
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About Aki and Masato~ didn't they have a magic contract or something similar that would prevent them from ever mentioning Seirei no Tami~? I forgot if they ever included about spirit arts in that contract~ but doesn't this prevent them from even casually mentioning it since they can't possibly do it in the first place~?

On the fun subject about the Beltram sisters being sent to marry Rio~ first of all this is just for fun and i don't think this will ever happen in the near future volumes but i love to think of stuff like this~
When thinking about the scene~ i can easily imagine where Christina getting embarrassed as hell when trying to bring up the subject before trying to act tough but her face is still red~ Similar to how she acted in Volume 15~ while Flora is just looking anywhere but Rio while blushing~

Also~ has anyone ever thought that who would confess first between the two sisters~? My bet is on Flora just because she tends to let out her feelings more~
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Old 2021-08-05, 00:34   Link #3606
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Alright, I think we are all on the same page with regards to Aki & Seirei no Tami; Hiroaki; Restoration and Huguenot.

Even on Phillip doing what was the least worst option politically.

I think the divergence in opinions here are about effectiveness of rule, aftermath and what Phillip would hypothetically do in the future. For that, it is either conjecture or opinion that we are just throwing about.

Thanks @jagt for clarifying on the Aki and the contract. I wasn't sure how set in stone that rule was.
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Old 2021-08-05, 05:07   Link #3607
Denker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa~Chan~ View Post
About Aki and Masato~ didn't they have a magic contract or something similar that would prevent them from ever mentioning Seirei no Tami~? I forgot if they ever included about spirit arts in that contract~ but doesn't this prevent them from even casually mentioning it since they can't possibly do it in the first place~?

On the fun subject about the Beltram sisters being sent to marry Rio~ first of all this is just for fun and i don't think this will ever happen in the near future volumes but i love to think of stuff like this~
When thinking about the scene~ i can easily imagine where Christina getting embarrassed as hell when trying to bring up the subject before trying to act tough but her face is still red~ Similar to how she acted in Volume 15~ while Flora is just looking anywhere but Rio while blushing~

Also~ has anyone ever thought that who would confess first between the two sisters~? My bet is on Flora just because she tends to let out her feelings more~
Before blushing, she would turn pale at the idea of "shamelessly" being sent to marry Rio, still feeling guilty and everything. Hell, she herself said she would try to stop her nobles from bothering Rio with these, so she being the one offered would just add salt to the injury.
Flora actually looked happy when Christina jokingly offered her, so maybe she would actually jump at the idea until her sister reminds her of what she promised Rio.
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Old 2021-08-05, 05:59   Link #3608
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Booba

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Old 2021-08-05, 06:26   Link #3609
Mirable
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First Miharu and Orphia and now Aishia. It’s really tempting to say lately Riv focus on girl’s bust.

Nice job Riv-sensei lol
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Old 2021-08-05, 06:29   Link #3610
jagt
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Chains or glasses getting broken are a typical escenification of a character breaking their shells or awakening to something. Is this supposed to be a hint about that?

By the way the illustration this time was accompanied by this words:獣は憤怒に突き動かされ、聖戦の刻は来たれり。The beast moves as its wrath wants it to, the moment of the holy war has come.
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Old 2021-08-05, 06:45   Link #3611
tsunade666
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Eh, isn't that aisha being captured or something? Is it Aisia turn to be rescued? Probably reiss doing. Separating those 2. Rio fought to rescue her. Reiss probably used erika's commotion to separate those two and capture her and in turn, Rio comes to rescue her.
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Old 2021-08-05, 07:22   Link #3612
Sekhmet
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Thank you for another great illustration Riv-sensei. Aishia looks really beautiful and her outfit is different from normal. I guess she regained her memories or awakened and it looks like Aishia and Rio will get a power up. I think Haruto's identity as Rio won't be revealed (or at least to public) because he is still using hair color changing artifact. I hope Aishia and Rio's relationship will start to improve after all of this trouble. I would like to see Aishia being selfish and maybe Rio showing affection to Aishia or something like that.
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Old 2021-08-05, 08:53   Link #3613
Alisa~Chan~
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VOLUME 20 HYPE~!!!!!!

Also~ i pointed this out a few pages ago but there has to be a reason why her dress changed~ Right now she looks exactly like a Spirit or a Goddess would~
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Old 2021-08-05, 09:03   Link #3614
Alisa~Chan~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagt View Post
Chains or glasses getting broken are a typical escenification of a character breaking their shells or awakening to something. Is this supposed to be a hint about that?

By the way the illustration this time was accompanied by this words:獣は憤怒に突き動かされ、聖戦の刻は来たれり。The beast moves as its wrath wants it to, the moment of the holy war has come.
I would guess so~? Well~ Celia's theme was like that in one of Volume 5's Colored Art right~? I can see what the others are saying about her somehow regaining her memories or her getting somehow captured by Reiss or something~ Actually~ i can see that both of those happening at the same time~

I am getting more and more excited by those words alone~! Oh man~ i am really looking forward to its release even though I can't read Japanese~
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Old 2021-08-05, 09:12   Link #3615
Kyureki
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Originally Posted by Alisa~Chan~ View Post
Also~ i pointed this out a few pages ago but there has to be a reason why her dress changed~ Right now she looks exactly like a Spirit or a Goddess would~
Aishia has mentioned some time ago (when Celia first experienced Rio's rock house immediately after the wedding crash thing) that she can freely change some of the details of her dress as her usual dress is actually just a part of her.
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Old 2021-08-05, 09:54   Link #3616
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Her clothes are woven from ode and mana using spirit arts. If they were actually a part of her wouldn't that mean that she's usually completely naked?
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Old 2021-08-05, 09:55   Link #3617
silenceblade
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Aishia look like Freya from Danmachi.
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Old 2021-08-05, 13:05   Link #3618
Kyureki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowarc View Post
Her clothes are woven from ode and mana using spirit arts. If they were actually a part of her wouldn't that mean that she's usually completely naked?
Woven from ode and mana yes, but it's the ode and mana that composes her own body. That's how she explained it to Celia.
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Old 2021-08-05, 13:28   Link #3619
nekodamashii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowarc View Post
Her clothes are woven from ode and mana using spirit arts. If they were actually a part of her wouldn't that mean that she's usually completely naked?
Her underwear is from the Rikka company mind you. Fu~h, we're barely safe.
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Old 2021-08-05, 18:05   Link #3620
Alisa~Chan~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyureki View Post
Aishia has mentioned some time ago (when Celia first experienced Rio's rock house immediately after the wedding crash thing) that she can freely change some of the details of her dress as her usual dress is actually just a part of her.
No no~! Sorry~ I didn't explain my thinking enough~ it's just I find it kinda suspicious how when she first materialized/awakened at Volume 4 didn't she materialize a dress more tame than that and we haven't seen her wear another design since~? And also~ with her current dress seen from above us would be the first time of her using that design ever since she awakened~! And I kinda spoiled myself when I accidentally did this but in the anime in the first few episode or something~ didn't she have that kind of design when talked to Rio and awakened his Spirit Arts~?

It's this reason why I find her change of design has to have a meaning or something~
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