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Old 2014-07-18, 22:02   Link #721
AnimeFan188
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Is This SA-11 'Buk" SAM Missing 2 Missiles The One That Shot Down MH17?:

"A video has surfaced that supposedly shows an SA-11 "Buk" SAM system being flat-bedded out of Eastern
Ukraine and into Russia. Regardless of its destination, what's interesting is that two of its missiles are
missing.

It is entirely common to fire two missiles in quick succession at a single target to improve the probability of
a kill, and we also know that an AN-26 was shot down earlier in the week above shoulder fired missile range.
Could this be the offending SA-11 that the US Government, and the world for that matter, is searching for?"

See:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/is-...hat-1607521886


================================================== ==========


Cover-up: Ukraine rebels destroying all links to MH17 air atrocity:

"Pro-Russia separatist groups in eastern Ukraine are hastily covering up all links to the Buk missile battery
suspected to have been used to shoot down the Malaysia Airlines passenger plane, according to western-
based defence and intelligence specialists."

See:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-mh17-removed


================================================== ==========


HIV’s Greatest Foe Went Down With MH17:

"Dr. Joep M. Lange, a Dutch researcher whose work toward finding prevention and treatment for the disease
is unmatched, and partner Jacqueline von Tongeren were killed in the crash."

See:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...flight-17.html


================================================== ==========


PENTAGON: Russia Likely Helped Whoever Shot Down The Plane:

"Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby said Friday that it "strainscredulity" to think pro-Russian
separatists in eastern Ukraine who are believed to have shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 didn't
have at least some help from Moscow."

See:

http://www.businessinsider.com/penta...issiles-2014-7


================================================== ==========


Russian Government Reportedly Edited Flight 17's Wikipedia Page To Blame Ukraine:

"A political battle has broken out on Wikipedia over an entry relating to the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight
MH17, with the Russian government reportedly removing sections which accuse it of providing "terrorists"
with missiles that were used to down the civilian airliner."

See:

http://www.businessinsider.com/russi...kipedia-2014-7

Last edited by AnimeFan188; 2014-07-18 at 22:36.
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Old 2014-07-19, 22:24   Link #722
GreyZone
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Is this Smolenks on a smaller scale all over again?
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Old 2014-07-20, 01:47   Link #723
AnimeFan188
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Looters Stole Cash, Credit Cards, And Jewelry From Flight MH17 Crash Victims:

"The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down Thursday afternoon after being shot with a
missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of
the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers
and crew.

After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence.
This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the
wreckage and pillaged."

See:

http://www.businessinsider.com/loote...victims-2014-7


================================================== =========


Dutch 'furious' at reports of mistreatment at crash site in Ukraine:

"Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said on Saturday the Netherlands was "angry, furious" by news
that bodies were being dragged around the site where a Malaysian airliner crashed in eastern Ukraine."

See:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FO0Q120140719
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Old 2014-07-20, 07:57   Link #724
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFan188 View Post
Looters Stole Cash, Credit Cards, And Jewelry From Flight MH17 Crash Victims:

"The crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which went down Thursday afternoon after being shot with a
missile, is now being looted. This is not only causing issues for the investigation, but also for the families of
the victims on board, who will now not be able to recover the lost property of the 298 dead passengers
and crew.

After the crash, investigators were unable to get to the site quickly and rope it off to preserve evidence.
This allowed armed separatists and locals to essentially raid the scene. Suitcases were removed from the
wreckage and pillaged."

See:

http://www.businessinsider.com/loote...victims-2014-7


================================================== =========


Dutch 'furious' at reports of mistreatment at crash site in Ukraine:

"Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans said on Saturday the Netherlands was "angry, furious" by news
that bodies were being dragged around the site where a Malaysian airliner crashed in eastern Ukraine."

See:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0FO0Q120140719
This, and reports that the Rebels have been somewhat impeding of the crash investigation, does not paint them in a very good light.
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Old 2014-07-20, 08:03   Link #725
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
This, and reports that the Rebels have been somewhat impeding of the crash investigation, does not paint them in a very good light.
If the SVR is involved in this, I think Putin would have the typical dumb villain of many Asian cinematography (Hollywood always have some sort of lame twist that makes the original villian seem smart and original).

Or Activision has got another plot for their next COD game.
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Old 2014-07-20, 09:54   Link #726
maplehurry
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I wonder what makes this plane "special" though, I mean it's certainly not the 1st commercial airline that flied over this airspace since the conflict started right? So why does this one got shot down ? Is it because it looks similar to Ukraine military plane ?
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Old 2014-07-20, 13:24   Link #727
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
I wonder what makes this plane "special" though, I mean it's certainly not the 1st commercial airline that flied over this airspace since the conflict started right? So why does this one got shot down ? Is it because it looks similar to Ukraine military plane ?
Who said anything about it being special? It's just a civilian plane, why does it need to be special?
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Old 2014-07-20, 13:28   Link #728
Ithekro
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I think the question was more along the lines of "why was this planes shot down? There are lots of planes that fly over, so why was this one targeted at all?"
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Old 2014-07-20, 13:50   Link #729
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I think the question was more along the lines of "why was this planes shot down? There are lots of planes that fly over, so why was this one targeted at all?"
That's silly. If I got into the middle of a city street and shot some stranger dead, that doesn't mean that victim was special. This isn't some movie where the world is divided between side characters and main characters. It's shot down because separatists were shooting down planes, that's all.
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Old 2014-07-20, 13:56   Link #730
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Who said anything about it being special? It's just a civilian plane, why does it need to be special?
Well, don't ask me. That's what I am asking, from the one who ordered it shot down. My speculation is just that the plane may have resembled some Ukraine military plane from the pov of the rebel/Russian commander in charge, likely not a bright fellow.

Quote:
If I got into the middle of a city street and shot some stranger dead, that doesn't mean that victim was special.
Specially unlucky.

So the other theory is that the rebel/Russian commander was suspicious of any planes that flied over, and happened to spot this particular MH17 (among other planes), and thus became the unlucky victim.

Quote:
It's shot down because separatists were shooting down planes, that's all.
Yea, and it's the first time a commercial jet's been shot down there. That's why the zone was considered "safe" before this incident. The pilots are naturally not suicidal... If it's so common sense, no commercial jets should fly over the zone, but MA's not alone in this.

Last edited by maplehurry; 2014-07-20 at 14:46.
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Old 2014-07-20, 14:47   Link #731
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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My point is that the plane wasn't special. And that neither side has anything to gain to shoot civilian planes, so there was no obvious risk to fly over the area. That particular plane wasn't special, there was other civ planes that took that flight path.

However some retard shot it down and now we realised that incompetence can be worse than malice.
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Old 2014-07-20, 15:06   Link #732
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
My point is that the plane wasn't special. And that neither side has anything to gain to shoot civilian planes, so there was no obvious risk to fly over the area. That particular plane wasn't special, there was other civ planes that took that flight path.
I did not elaborate on my initial post, but I was not really trying to speculate on how special the plane was in the objective sense, but instead on how special it was in the eyes of the one who ordered it shot down, in the subjective sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

However some retard shot it down and now we realised that incompetence can be worse than malice.
I heard a Russian intelligence officer's directly involved, so I was "hoping" it wasn't blatant incompetence. It's a bit hard for me to imagine an intelligence officer being that incompetent (such as not considering the possibility of the target being a commercial jet). But it really does seem to be the case... So I guess I can agree on that.

Last edited by maplehurry; 2014-07-20 at 15:25.
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Old 2014-07-20, 15:49   Link #733
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
Well, don't ask me. That's what I am asking, from the one who ordered it shot down. My speculation is just that the plane may have resembled some Ukraine military plane from the pov of the rebel/Russian commander in charge, likely not a bright fellow.



Specially unlucky.

So the other theory is that the rebel/Russian commander was suspicious of any planes that flied over, and happened to spot this particular MH17 (among other planes), and thus became the unlucky victim.



Yea, and it's the first time a commercial jet's been shot down there. That's why the zone was considered "safe" before this incident. The pilots are naturally not suicidal... If it's so common sense, no commercial jets should fly over the zone, but MA's not alone in this.
At the height the plane was flying at, they would not be able to actually see the plane; they would be targeting the plane based on radar. And this is also where the militants lack of proper equipment comes in. From what i recall reading, while the BUK anti-air missile system has a radar system of its own, its usually used in conjunction with a more sophisticated radar system. The radar picks out the target, then they send a message to the BUK operator in the field on which targets to shoot at. The reason why this is important is because the BUK missile system can NOT determine the difference between a commercial airliner and a military plane. Those militants knew something was flying overhead, and were able to shoot it, but they lacked the equipment that would have told them what they were shooting at.

While flights were still going over Ukraine, flights had been greatly reduced because of the conflict. Furtharmore, the weapons the militants were using have a limited range, and they most likely only have a few of them at most; which means its easy to believe that other planes might have gotten by without being spotted... Based on the leaked audio tapes, the militants were under the impression that there was no commercial air traffic over east Ukraine and thus did not think the plane could be anything other than a military plane.

In short, MH17 was just unlucky compared to the others and a victim of the militants' incompetence.
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Old 2014-07-20, 16:35   Link #734
aldw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
I did not elaborate on my initial post, but I was not really trying to speculate on how special the plane was in the objective sense, but instead on how special it was in the eyes of the one who ordered it shot down, in the subjective sense.



I heard a Russian intelligence officer's directly involved, so I was "hoping" it wasn't blatant incompetence. It's a bit hard for me to imagine an intelligence officer being that incompetent (such as not considering the possibility of the target being a commercial jet). But it really does seem to be the case... So I guess I can agree on that.
The longer you live, the more apparent how prevalent incompetence is among humans it becomes.
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Old 2014-07-20, 18:47   Link #735
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
The longer you live, the more apparent how prevalent incompetence is among humans it becomes.
I know it's prevalent, but I always thought those working in the intelligence department would be among one of the exceptions. I guess sometimes they focus so much on the "deep" stuff that they occasionally forget about the basics.
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Old 2014-07-21, 11:59   Link #736
NightbatŪ
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As you probably already learned from the supposed WMD's in Iraq

Army "intelligence" has a vivid imagination, but a shortage in educated personnel
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Old 2014-07-22, 06:27   Link #737
Newhope
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Seems like the video that the Ukraine released showing a Buk sam system "heading" back to Russia may have been staged or old footage of their own troops....

Some people have recognised the area in the video as Krasnoarmeisk which has been under Kiev forces control since May.
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Old 2014-07-22, 12:58   Link #738
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Seems like the video that the Ukraine released showing a Buk sam system "heading" back to Russia may have been staged or old footage of their own troops....

Some people have recognised the area in the video as Krasnoarmeisk which has been under Kiev forces control since May.
I tried to look for this, and found only mentioned in RT here:

Note, it is an official statement from Russian General Staff of the Armed Forces rather than an opinion pieces, so we probably can disregard sources. But there are a few other points too, including:
  1. Russian radar at that time detected three civilian aircraft including the MH17 AND a fighter plane flying very close to the MH17. Which contradicted Ukraine's claim earlier on how they did not operate any plane in the region. The MH17 also apparently was strayed off course just moment before being shot down, sparked the question whether it was navigation error or it was instructed to
  2. There is also satellite photo of Ukraine government's BUK system being deployed into the region before the incident, and moving out after it. Along with Ukraine increase the intensity of its BUK radar before the incident and reduce after it. The Russia then questioned why the first deployment happened in the first place considering the rebel don't have air power
  3. And of course the video of the BUK system with missing warhead was filmed outside of the rebellion controlled region

Will be interesting to see how the Ukraine government answer that.
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Old 2014-07-22, 13:31   Link #739
risingstar3110
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Btw, if you think I was a bit of a nut suspecting a mass terrorists actions could take place. Then I present you Yoichi Shimatsu


This dude, claimed to be reporters and have visited a few related site and got a few interviews with experts before putting up his claim. Was stating that the plane, along with the civilians, were carrying a horde of dead bodies in its cargo, being drained of blood and infested with deadly virus. The cargo also carried a bomb and once arrived to Malaysia airport, will explode, spreading its virus to the highly dense population in Malaysia, allowing the disease to spread like wild fire across Asia from there. The plane actually was shot down by an Ukraine airplane to prevent it from reaching its destination...

His proof includes interviewing with local of crashing sites stating some dead bodies were not fresh and have been dried of blood. Or based on pictures of crash site, the plane appeared to explode mid air from inward and so on
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Old 2014-07-22, 19:04   Link #740
Allmarduk
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The spark that ignited armed Ukranian conflict

Remember, earlier this year, the then-Ukranian president was forced out of office and to flee to Russia after several months of popular protests. His name was Viktor Yanukovych.
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