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Old 2014-08-11, 12:13   Link #21
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subpyro View Post
It's actually really tedious to post anything useful if you are restricted from naming the sites you specifically know the hip & happening about. In the end, it is what kills the potential highly informative posts on the thread. Rather ridiculous if you would ask me. Since that is the case, does this thread actually hold any more discussion value? The OP states it all, everything else can only be baseless speculations without taking any examples, which is basically running around in blind circles.
What's the point of discussing specific sites here? The press release lists the targeted sites by name, and patrons of those sites will know if they are affected.
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Old 2014-08-11, 12:31   Link #22
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
What's the point of discussing specific sites here? The press release lists the targeted sites by name, and patrons of those sites will know if they are affected.
Where they listing the sites.
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Old 2014-08-11, 12:34   Link #23
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It's in the press release, in the slides linked.
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Old 2014-08-11, 12:35   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Where they listing the sites.
It's in my Op!
Quote:
The press release includes a PowerPoint that contains an actual list of websites they are targeting.
The link will take you to a PDF file. Scroll down the pages. And you'll find the names of all sites listed. The names of the sites are in English.
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Old 2014-08-11, 12:43   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
What's the point of discussing specific sites here? The press release lists the targeted sites by name, and patrons of those sites will know if they are affected.
Not listing, but simply mentioning and examining their situation in detail. I know the process some specific sites are currently in, and the users who frequent them might just find such a post useful. Still, I am not allowed to share it. Therefore, if this thread holds any discussion value at all, it is relatively extremely low. That is if we take the ability of sharing and connecting to specific websites as the reference point. Do know that not all the websites listed are under the same effect. The targeting styles and coverage varies from one to another, and if one were to specifically examine the situation for the site(s) he/she knows, it could bring much more information than the current.
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Old 2014-08-11, 13:02   Link #26
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Originally Posted by Subpyro View Post
Not listing, but simply mentioning and examining their situation in detail. I know the process some specific sites are currently in, and the users who frequent them might just find such a post useful. Still, I am not allowed to share it. Therefore, if this thread holds any discussion value at all, it is relatively extremely low. That is if we take the ability of sharing and connecting to specific websites as the reference point. Do know that not all the websites listed are under the same effect. The targeting styles and coverage varies from one to another, and if one were to specifically examine the situation for the site(s) he/she knows, it could bring much more information than the current.
What detail could there be? The targeted sites will get cease and desist letters, and if they don't comply they'll face legal action. Those sites will either fight it, close permanently (at least the sharing portion of the site), or reopen under a new face.

It's nothing new.
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Old 2014-08-11, 13:27   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
It's in my Op!


The link will take you to a PDF file. Scroll down the pages. And you'll find the names of all sites listed. The names of the sites are in English.
Sorry for asking you to post again.

Images
Have a loli.
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Would be interesting if they published that entire thing in English. 141 pages of Japanese is tiring to translate, though it would be amusing if the world gives them the middle finger for publishing it in Japanese instead of the lingua franca.
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Last edited by Flower; 2014-08-11 at 13:48.
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Old 2014-08-11, 13:41   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
What detail could there be? The targeted sites will get cease and desist letters, and if they don't comply they'll face legal action. Those sites will either fight it, close permanently (at least the sharing portion of the site), or reopen under a new face.

It's nothing new.
Incorrect. There were specific requests made in the warning letters to the respective owners and maintainers and from there, we can examine in just how much danger one specific site is. Not all listed are threatened with a forced shut down. Some are quite strictly limited to what is expected and what will the consequences be if they do not follow, with both of them varying between the websites. And what's more, some even received warnings and requests even though they are keeping it clean. I've pointed out the latter in my previous post, but that part got removed due to it being against the rules.

Next to that, let's take a look from your point of view. Let's say you are correct and that there is nothing interesting to say about the sites in specific. If we assume that, then it is clearly visible that the OP in this thread already points everything out, leaving this thread with no discussion value. The majority of the responses are pretty much a discussion on what should be discussed here in the first place. All in all, this thread could hold excellent discussion if it were to be open for examples and allow posting statistics as well as hip & happening for specific sites around. Without that, yet again, it holds no to very minor discussion value.
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Old 2014-08-11, 13:53   Link #29
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I wish them good luck trying to sue sites whose servers lie in Belize or Tonga.
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:22   Link #30
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I wish them good luck trying to sue sites whose servers lie in Belize or Tonga.
They are a actually going after Youtube! Like that's going to work!
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:24   Link #31
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Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
They are a actually going after Youtube! Like that's going to work!
You may be laughting right now, but did you ever hear of GEMA in Germany? It may end up exactly like that... anything that seems anime related will be instantly taken down. Well I hope it does not happen, but it would not surprise me.
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:33   Link #32
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Originally Posted by milan kyuubi View Post
They are a actually going after Youtube! Like that's going to work!
I don't understand. YouTube should be one of the easiest to put under control, especially if Google were to cooperate. And no, they wouldn't be targeting YouTube, but rather YouTube channels that would brake their policies. Google is already sweeping those per request, but I guess they want to emphasize the frequency of the clearing.
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:37   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subpyro View Post
Incorrect. There were specific requests made in the warning letters to the respective owners and maintainers and from there, we can examine in just how much danger one specific site is. Not all listed are threatened with a forced shut down. Some are quite strictly limited to what is expected and what will the consequences be if they do not follow, with both of them varying between the websites. And what's more, some even received warnings and requests even though they are keeping it clean. I've pointed out the latter in my previous post, but that part got removed due to it being against the rules.
Yes, that's what cease and desist letters do. They're not always blanket requests, nor are they always from the same people. Usually, but not always, the letter states the consequences for ignoring the request, with threats of legal action.

But the point I'm making is that discussing how much in danger any of these sites are is pointless. If they're gone, they're gone. The only thing it changes from the users side is where to get their content. When MangaHelpers was caught sharing raws, they made the decision to stop sharing or to find ways around the requests. They decided to stop sharing. In fact they even tried to go legal, iirc, but the effort didn't go anywhere at the time. From the users perspective though, it simply meant getting raws from somewhere else.

The reason we're restricting that kind of discussion is because we don't want to encourage discussion about what sites are closing, and where people should migrate to next. There's search engines, use them. We're no longer involved in those things.

Quote:
Next to that, let's take a look from your point of view. Let's say you are correct and that there is nothing interesting to say about the sites in specific. If we assume that, then it is clearly visible that the OP in this thread already points everything out, leaving this thread with no discussion value. The majority of the responses are pretty much a discussion on what should be discussed here in the first place. All in all, this thread could hold excellent discussion if it were to be open for examples and allow posting statistics as well as hip & happening for specific sites around. Without that, yet again, it holds no to very minor discussion value.
People can discuss the law and how it affects the industries and communities that encompass it. They can also discuss broader topics like copyright law, legal jurisdiction, political and economic consequences, and whatever other related topic springs to mind.

The thread has plenty of discussion value. Just not the kind you want.
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:40   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
People can discuss the law and how it affects the industries and communities that encompass it. They can also discuss broader topics like copyright law, legal jurisdiction, political and economic consequences, and whatever other related topic springs to mind.

The thread has plenty of discussion value. Just not the kind you want.
So whose law are we following now? Are extradition treaties involved?

And will there be extraordinary rendition? [/sarcasm]
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Old 2014-08-11, 14:45   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The thread has plenty of discussion value. Just not the kind you want.
I feel sort of offended by that statement. How can you possibly know what kind of discussion I want or don't want? As long as there is any sort of discussion possible, I will gladly participate. Anyhow, this argument truly seems fruitless, so to save both of our time and effort I'll drop it.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and if any new point(s) will peak my interest, I'll make sure to contribute as well. My point of view on the matter on short: they have dedicated themselves quite a huge goal. In my opinion, the majority of the plan will most likely end in a failure. If there is one thing that is unnecessary is for the community to be afraid of the movement hitting too hard. This is far from from being the first attempt, and it most likely won't be the last. For the better or worse, internet cannot and most likely will not be controlled completely for relatively a long period of time. (That reminds me, I'm writing a Sci-Fi novel where it actually is fully controlled by three major corporations )
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Old 2014-08-11, 15:08   Link #36
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So whose law are we following now? Are extradition treaties involved?

And will there be extraordinary rendition? [/sarcasm]
Japanese businessmen will bust down your door, take your animes, insult your waifu, and steal your lolis. When they're gone, you'll have shattered figmas on the floor and a faint smell of saki, cigarettes, and shame lingering in the air.
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Old 2014-08-11, 15:20   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subpyro View Post
I don't understand. YouTube should be one of the easiest to put under control, especially if Google were to cooperate. And no, they wouldn't be targeting YouTube, but rather YouTube channels that would brake their policies. Google is already sweeping those per request, but I guess they want to emphasize the frequency of the clearing.
Agreed.

YouTube is one of the most likely to roll over and play dead on anything related to registered trademarks or copyright infringement. YouTube has been badly nerfed over the last few years over this sort of thing. There was a time I could put up a Madoka Magica AMV on YouTube with ease and nary a thought. That's certainly not the case today.

YouTube still has some value though. You can find some anime OPs there, and full versions of anime OP songs. You can even find some anime OSTs there. It would be a shame if this value was to be lost as well.
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Old 2014-08-11, 15:42   Link #38
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There is also the "licensing" problem though. In Germany one would have to be stupid to make a crunchyroll subscription, because 95% of all shows are blocked because they were already licensed in Germany, though here they are far behind the simulcasts and censoring is the worst here.

To add to what I said about George Wada before: He also stated that he'd prefer even more if simulcasts were possible in all countries in their respective languages and at the same time. But of course as I mention that is not realistic at all.
This is my problem also. Crunchyroll is the right idea, I just can't see 90% of the content they offer so it's completely pointless for me to subscribe. It's a shame really because I would be very open to a netflix-style subscription that allowed me to watch the shows I want for a flat regular fee. I watch enough for it to be worth it.

But that discussion has it's own thread.

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We're not a target. Our database still has some old trackers listed but it's woefully out of date, and we don't allow any licensed links on the forums. If we ever did get a C&D letter, it wouldn't be difficult to comply. Most members wouldn't even notice the changes.

We're just not a big fish in terms of content sharing anymore, just in content discussion.

In a broader sense, these moves have been made before. I wouldn't sweat it too much. If you still don't want to pay for anime/manga, there will be places to get it. They just might not be so out in the open as they used to be, at least until things cool down for a bit.

Like Saintess points out, these moves are done because of a poor understanding of economics, including consumer trends. It's an attempt to try and control a change in market forces that they don't really understand. They simply see each download as a lost sale, and they don't care, or at least don't want to understand, why consumers are abandoning their controlled channels in droves.
Yeah, I wasn't really worried. Just pointing out that Animesuki was originally a tracker. But still, I'm pretty sure most folks today wouldn't even notice if the tracker were gone so a C&D would probably be rather simple to comply with.
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Old 2014-08-11, 15:53   Link #39
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YouTube still has some value though. You can find some anime OPs there, and full versions of anime OP songs. You can even find some anime OSTs there. It would be a shame if this value was to be lost as well.
Indeed. Although it might seem minor at first sight, there still would be a huge difference with or without such uploads for others to view and enjoy. While such smaller factors are accessible via YouTube as of current, it is quite possible that they will be forced underground as well. At that time, there will be no gray zone, only pure white or black. But then again, that is only if a relatively huge part of this movement were to actually be successfully executed.
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Old 2014-08-11, 15:57   Link #40
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Agreed.

YouTube is one of the most likely to roll over and play dead on anything related to registered trademarks or copyright infringement. YouTube has been badly nerfed over the last few years over this sort of thing. There was a time I could put up a Madoka Magica AMV on YouTube with ease and nary a thought. That's certainly not the case today.

YouTube still has some value though. You can find some anime OPs there, and full versions of anime OP songs. You can even find some anime OSTs there. It would be a shame if this value was to be lost as well.
The problem with Youtube is that so many videos go up that it's impossible to employ enough staff to filter through fair use and illegal use. So the automated Content ID system is set to indiscriminate nuking. This is more to cover Google's butt than anything, but it really harms legitimate users. This has been a huge problem even for legitimate companies. Nothing like getting your video pulled when you're the company that owns the IP.

Plus, it operates on a guilty until proven innocent system. So any jerk can make a claim, and you have to prove they are wrong. With the three strikes system, this can make fighting claims extremely painful, especially if you're a bigger user that uploads a lot of videos. It's a system ripe for trolling, sadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
This is my problem also. Crunchyroll is the right idea, I just can't see 90% of the content they offer so it's completely pointless for me to subscribe. It's a shame really because I would be very open to a netflix-style subscription that allowed me to watch the shows I want for a flat regular fee. I watch enough for it to be worth it.

But that discussion has it's own thread.
Licensing and region restrictions are a big factor in piracy.

Quote:
Yeah, I wasn't really worried. Just pointing out that Animesuki was originally a tracker. But still, I'm pretty sure most folks today wouldn't even notice if the tracker were gone so a C&D would probably be rather simple to comply with.
It was irritating back in the day. Media Factory and BayTSP were extremely annoying, and a big reason why the index would get gutted of entire sections of torrents from time to time. We've gotten many C&D's over the years, but those two were the most persistent.

And yeah, I don't think many people even realize we still have a main site.
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