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Old 2018-02-28, 14:38   Link #21
Xellos-_^
Not Enough Sleep
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
That didn't really ruin Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro (Toriko mangaka), even his offense is much worse in comparison (child prostitution).
just because japan is soft on pedophile doesn't mean the rest of the should be. In 2002 in the US that would be 10 yrs in prison and life time registration in Sexual predator list. The publishing industry in the west would have dump him like radioactive waste.
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Old 2018-02-28, 19:03   Link #22
Marcus H.
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Not my point. There's more to this than a lenient way to deal with sexual predators. It's most likely a cultural deal, in that the legal system in Japan was made to be considerable harsher for drug possession than pedophilia and child prostitution.
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Old 2018-03-02, 13:32   Link #23
BetoJR
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Well, it excludes him (and his products) from my future purchases' list, that's for damn sure.
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Old 2018-03-02, 16:36   Link #24
Mad Pierrot
Corrupted fool
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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A shame about this guy. I respected him a lot not because of the series but because of how communicative he was to the readers, often expressing his stress at work, the secret behind characters' creation, how he let his assistants work on the series (Eichiro Oda was one of them!), etc.
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Old 2018-03-24, 21:42   Link #25
GDiddy
Sisterhood of the Desu
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: in a van by the river
RK is forever ruined for me now.
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Old 2018-03-25, 20:52   Link #26
Shinji103
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Okay, Watsuki may be on the level of a pedophile, but I see all these people saying “RK is ruined for me” and I think, “Seriously?” RK has no hint or suggestion of underage sexualism unless you try to count Yahiko’s crush. It is completely possible to read RK or any of Watsuki’s works and not think of child pornography. It’s the same thing as separating reality from fiction, just reversed.
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Old 2018-03-26, 00:55   Link #27
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Okay, Watsuki may be on the level of a pedophile, but I see all these people saying “RK is ruined for me” and I think, “Seriously?” RK has no hint or suggestion of underage sexualism unless you try to count Yahiko’s crush. It is completely possible to read RK or any of Watsuki’s works and not think of child pornography. It’s the same thing as separating reality from fiction, just reversed.
But is it possible to buy a volume and not think "this money is going to feed someone's pedophile habits"?
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Old 2018-03-27, 03:28   Link #28
Shinji103
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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It’s possible. You don’t think he can get money for that from somewhere else?

Besides, I’m sure there are plenty of RK and Busou Renkin fans thinking the same as me, so money will come from there. And if his RK continuation picks back up, like that other mangaka who wrote a great-selling manga after getting nabbed for something similar, he’ll get the money from there too.

So why make ourselves suffer needlessly? Especially if it’s just to enjoy manga we’ve already bought before this ever happened? I’m not going to let this incident ruin the enjoyment of the childhood favorite manga already sitting on my bookshelf. And obviously there are plenty of other RK fans who’ve already bought the whole original manga.
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Old 2018-03-27, 07:52   Link #29
Oberstein
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Join Date: May 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Okay, Watsuki may be on the level of a pedophile, but I see all these people saying “RK is ruined for me” and I think, “Seriously?” RK has no hint or suggestion of underage sexualism unless you try to count Yahiko’s crush. It is completely possible to read RK or any of Watsuki’s works and not think of child pornography. It’s the same thing as separating reality from fiction, just reversed.
You know. It's funny how there are people black listed him for pedophile matter while they are surfing in industry that encourage people for being pedophile iself.
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Old 2018-03-27, 19:26   Link #30
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
It’s possible. You don’t think he can get money for that from somewhere else?

Besides, I’m sure there are plenty of RK and Busou Renkin fans thinking the same as me, so money will come from there. And if his RK continuation picks back up, like that other mangaka who wrote a great-selling manga after getting nabbed for something similar, he’ll get the money from there too.

So why make ourselves suffer needlessly? Especially if it’s just to enjoy manga we’ve already bought before this ever happened? I’m not going to let this incident ruin the enjoyment of the childhood favorite manga already sitting on my bookshelf. And obviously there are plenty of other RK fans who’ve already bought the whole original manga.
Yea. I mean I'm sure something in my room was made by a scumbag. This would never end.
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Old 2018-03-27, 20:39   Link #31
Eisdrache
Part-time misanthrope
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
The issue is known as separation between art and artist. There is probably no answer that is completely right or wrong. You can argue that art is detached from the person, something beyond reason so to say. On the other hand there is the argument that art is part of what makes the person/artist. It's impossible for us to enjoy art as a blank slate without the background into context, we simply don't work that way.

You have to find the answer that suits you best. Personally if I had RK volumes I wouldn't throw them away. But I'd also stop buying them, not because RK suddenly became a bad story but because the money I spend will in some shape or form land in the pockets of these people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxis View Post
You know. It's funny how there are people black listed him for pedophile matter while they are surfing in industry that encourage people for being pedophile iself.
And what would that industry be?
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Old 2018-03-28, 00:42   Link #32
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
It’s possible. You don’t think he can get money for that from somewhere else?
But he won't be getting it from me. It's the difference between "something wrong is happening" (which it is, all the time) and "I'm knowingly doing something wrong".

Quote:
Besides, I’m sure there are plenty of RK and Busou Renkin fans thinking the same as me, so money will come from there. And if his RK continuation picks back up, like that other mangaka who wrote a great-selling manga after getting nabbed for something similar, he’ll get the money from there too.

So why make ourselves suffer needlessly? Especially if it’s just to enjoy manga we’ve already bought before this ever happened? I’m not going to let this incident ruin the enjoyment of the childhood favorite manga already sitting on my bookshelf. And obviously there are plenty of other RK fans who’ve already bought the whole original manga.
I'll turn the question around. Why help pay someone to molest children when there are so many other mangaka?

The past can't be helped. But that's no excuse to close our eyes now. You can if you want to, of course. But don't pretend you're not responsible for your choices just because hypothetical other people make similar ones.
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Old 2018-03-28, 04:28   Link #33
Sheba
Part-Time TTK & Master
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Yea. I mean I'm sure something in my room was made by a scumbag. This would never end.
If I followed that line of thought, I'd have burned everything I bought and was made by H.P Lovecraft, Wagner, Roman Polanski and Bertrant Cantat by now.
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Old 2018-03-28, 05:00   Link #34
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Only if you completely misunderstand the line of thought in question.
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Old 2018-03-28, 06:36   Link #35
Shinji103
Crazy Devout Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
But he won't be getting it from me. It's the difference between "something wrong is happening" (which it is, all the time) and "I'm knowingly doing something wrong".
You make it sound like we're the ones directly paying for child pornography ourselves. There's a difference to be made here.

Quote:
I'll turn the question around. Why help pay someone to molest children when there are so many other mangaka?

The past can't be helped. But that's no excuse to close our eyes now. You can if you want to, of course. But don't pretend you're not responsible for your choices just because hypothetical other people make similar ones.
Again, you make it sound as if we're directly funding the act.
Of course, buying books is moot if you've already bought his books long before this incident ever became known, like me. Which was my original point; not buying the books, but enjoying the stories. (which many people most likely own since RK is 20+ years old already) Therefor, I nor anyone else is supporting any degenerative behavior by reading and enjoying books we bought long before we ever knew about this.

And now you're flat-out accusing me of closing my eyes and making a not-so-veiled accusation that I actually am aiding child pornography. Suffice it to say, I won't be further engaging in this conversation that's now circling the drain. I have better uses for my time.
Though we all know people who continue to read RK despite this incident aren't "hypothetical." Simple common sense says there are plenty of people who think the same, whether you accept that or not.
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Old 2018-03-28, 13:19   Link #36
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
You make it sound like we're the ones directly paying for child pornography ourselves. There's a difference to be made here.
There is, but if you give someone money while strongly suspecting it'll be used for child molestation, the difference isn't that large.

Quote:
Again, you make it sound as if we're directly funding the act.
Of course, buying books is moot if you've already bought his books long before this incident ever became known, like me. Which was my original point; not buying the books, but enjoying the stories. (which many people most likely own since RK is 20+ years old already) Therefor, I nor anyone else is supporting any degenerative behavior by reading and enjoying books we bought long before we ever knew about this.
That may have been what your original point was, but it wasn't what my post - which you responded to - was about. A fact you well understood, as indicated by your use of the future tense. Your response was a claim you'll keep giving him money, knowing what you now do, followed by an appeal to popularity to justify your indifference.


Quote:
And now you're flat-out accusing me of closing my eyes and making a not-so-veiled accusation that I actually am aiding child pornography. Suffice it to say, I won't be further engaging in this conversation that's now circling the drain. I have better uses for my time.
Though we all know people who continue to read RK despite this incident aren't "hypothetical." Simple common sense says there are plenty of people who think the same, whether you accept that or not.
And here's another appeal to popularity.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2018-03-28 at 16:38.
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Old 2018-03-28, 14:05   Link #37
Xellos-_^
Not Enough Sleep
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
You make it sound like we're the ones directly paying for child pornography ourselves. There's a difference to be made here.
directly no but indirectly you are.

- Buy Manga
- Publisher Pays pedo
- Pedo buys child porn
- Child Porn Producer Victimize Child.

what is so difficult to understand that new purchase of this guys work will go toward victimizing more children?
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Last edited by Xellos-_^; 2018-03-28 at 16:01.
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Old 2018-03-28, 15:34   Link #38
Key Board
Carbon
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Some crimes are just harder to overlook than others.
Actual child porn, which has actual victims, is crossing the line for a lot of people.
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Old 2018-03-29, 01:49   Link #39
Marcus H.
Toji Affairs Secretary
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
This attempt to connect the craft, the craftsman and the craftsman's wrongdoings kinda makes me wonder if Mikhail Kalashnikov considers himself a murderer and associate in terrorist activity for designing the AK47. Or whether those who manufacture firearms find themselves thinking about their gun being used to kill others.

But then again, J. Robert Oppenheimer did say that "I am become death, destroyer of worlds" as the one who designed the weapon that would claim so many lives in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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Spring 2018: Amanchu! Advance (9/12) and Wotaku ni Koi wa Muzukashii.
Carryover from Winter 2018: Cardcaptor Sakura Clear Card Arc (16/22) and Toji no Miko.
See the Toji no Miko Wiki Project in action!
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Old 2018-03-29, 02:00   Link #40
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
They're pretty different situations. Practically opposite, in fact. In one case, craft and crime are unrelated, but the craftsman is a criminal. In the other, craft is a tool to commit crimes, and the criminals are on the consumer side.
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