[Manga] Chapter 456 Discussion

[JackRydden224]

Originally Posted by SeanQ

You guys do know you're trying to reason with the sharingan right now right...and
sharingan = no logic...

More like trying to make sense of people's abilities in a shounen manga is just futile.

Originally Posted by Luce

Surprised Danzou's "fight" hasn't been talked about very much. I have to agree with him being pretty badass after his massacre of those 25 wood ninja. He was completely ruthless too, just like ninjas are suppose to be. Helpless ninja at his feet moaning, and he stabs the guy through the head with his own sword, then uses the dead body to defend against the other ninja's attacks, with the ninja's sword still sticking out of his head, pretty much awesome.

And it would seem that he is a wind element user, haven't seen many of them, if it is his affinity that is. Attacks like the one he pulled off make me wish Naruto would expand on his wind techniques, even though he really has no desire to kill anymore.

Probably because it isn't something that other people can't do; God Realm Pain, Sasuke and Itachi are probably capable of the same thing. I think the fight was to show that Danzou is a capable fighter, probably on the same level as the rest of the antagonist at this point and not some ojisan wrapped up in bandages.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

As you can see in chapter 390 pg. 4 the flames are traveling towards Saskue and as you can see in chapter 415 pg. 1 the flames are traveling to the opponent and we can even see the Eight-Tails looking at the flame as it travels to him.

To me it seems that Itachi is chasing Sasuke by burning down the forest behind him, the flames generate at the point Itachi is looking at. You see Itachi turning his head which means he is zooming with his MS in a circle, and the black flames originate at the points of that circle, closing on Sasuke and finally reaching him. Flames cannot travel at that speed if they are not fired as bullets or a stream, but we don't see any trail originating from Itachi. Half of the forest was burning in an instant, flames cannot travel so fast by themselves, nor did Itachi fire huge amounts of flame in all directions in an instant. On page 415/01 what you see is not amaterasu fire but Sasuke zooming in to the point where he will generate the fire. Sasuke could generate and extinguish the flame by zooming wit his eye on the desired place, and the effect originated on that place, that's how he could instantaneously put out the amaterasu fire that was on Karin's coat and was about to burn Karin.

When Sasuke fires an amaterasu on Madara we see that Madara has been hit, it's unlikely that the godlike Madara can't avoid being hit by something that needs time to travel to his body, so he was hit because the flames originated on his body, he could not avoid the flames. That's why Madara was happy that Itachi didn't know about his secret, otherwise amaterasu would have killed Madara.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Yes, that one was Madara back then. Still, concerning her age, she might have taken the competition... She's about Zabusa's age and surviving / winning the blood mist contest means quite something. Don't you think this is as badass?

If she could survive being in academy with a group full of munchikins like Zabuza and kill them all she gets serious rep in my book I mean an academy student taking out their whole class is a great feat.

Also has anyone realized how it is also the 4th Kage that makes one of the greatest impact:

4th Hokage was a genius that sealed the Kyuubi one of the biggest disasters to hit Konoha inside his son and was well renowned in war with a flee on sight warning and he could take out squadrons in a matter of seconds.

4th Kazekage sealed the Ichibi in his son to create a weapon and tried to assassinate him afterwards due to unstability and his identity was used to start the war in Konoha.

4th Mizukage created bloodmist a group of the most blood thirsty ninjas in the whole of the ninja world, the seven swordsmen of bloodmist and was a tyrannical dictator

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by james0246

Technically, both the 4th and the 5th Tailed Jinchuuriki came from Iwagakure, with the 4th Tail being the only one we know that wasn't fully part of the village. And, the 3rd Tail and 6th Tail Jinchuuriki herald from Kirigakure (although the 3rd Tail was released at some point previous to the begining of the current story arcs). So, both villages have already conceivably been attacked by Akatsuki.

Unless it turns out that the Jinchuuriki from these villages were missing-nin, they should already have sufficient reason for wanting to attack Akatsuki.

Yeah, but remember that Deidara mentioned that some of the jinchuuriki were outcasts and that the villages they encountered up until the Suna were actually relieved to see the hosts captured (of course, that may have been just the way Deidara saw things). And since only the 5 and 7- tails had been sealed at that point, we can assume that the Rock and Waterfall villages were among the villages Deidara was referring to. The Mist is kind of a gray area, we don't know how they reacted to the capture of 6-tails and 3-tails had already been separated from its host

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Also has anyone realized how it is also the 4th Kage that makes one of the greatest impact:

Well that's probably because most of the villages were in their fourth generation of Kage when story started and therefore influenced the most recent events. Their newly elected Godaime Kages haven't had the time to make much impact or leave a legacy.

but I'd say the 1st Hokage has made arguably as much or more impact as the 4th. 3rd kazekage was also mentioned to be the most powerful of all the Kazekages

[Kakashi]

Originally Posted by ShadowAssasin

Heres hoping a major Samurai character will be involved in the plot somehow. "Land of Iron"; sounds like they'll have some interesting abilities.

It would be a nice twist, but they'll probably play the faceless, nameless guardians or gatekeepers.

Originally Posted by Rurik

And Please, or either lets stop the "Itachi vs Pain", Or "Pain is my god", or "Itachi is my god", or. "Sharigan is not Th3 best... it is the Byakugan" etc... this act looks amusing, but this is not the place to be talking about that..

Besides, Itachi doesn't engage in fights he can't win. Unless he's being all martyr Itachi.

[Hiking_Bear]

Here are my thoughts on Danzo-Obito-Tobi-Madara. (hypothesis only)

I think that when Madara was defeated by Hashirama, he was left for dead at the VOE. But, a young, ambitious Danzo went to the VOE seeking to gain Madara's power. Danzo stole the right eye from Madara's corpse and implanted it. The remains of Madara's body were recovered/devoured by Zetsu (the left Sharingan was saved). The effect of EMS was that as long as his eye survived in a living host, Madara was never truly destroyed (somewhat analogous to Sauron's Ring from LOTR). Thus Danzo was unknowingly responsible for Madara's survival. However, Madara was unable to resurface for quite a while, since he was without a body.

Many years later, Zetsu discovered an Uchiha body, the body of Uchiha Obito. In order for Madara to be reborn, it was necessary that the host body be an Uchiha body. Zetsu was somehow able to communicate with Madara's consciousness. And under Madara's instruction, Zetsu proceeded to implant Madara's left eye into Obito's dead body. This was the creation of Tobi.

Immediately following his resurrection, Madara thought only on revenge. In the period of one year, he found the 9-tailed demon fox and used his left eye to order it to attack Konoha. The attack was thwarted by Namikaze Minato, the fourth hokage, who sealed the Kyuubi's chakra with Shiki Fuujin. Minato also used the Shiki Fuujin to seal a portion of himself within Naruto. Minato would later remark to Naruto (during his fight with Pain) that the masked ninja who summoned the Kyuubi (i.e. Tobi) was able to see through all of his techniques. The reason Madara was able to see through Minato's techniques was precisely due to the fact that Madara's host body was Obito, one of Minato's students. Hence all of Obito's knowledge about the fourth hokage's techs was also known to Madara.

Now fast forward to Madara's story about the background of Uchiha Itachi. Madara spoke of specific conversations that were supposedly known only to the three elders, the third hokage, and Itachi. He also told Sasuke that Itachi died unaware that Madara also knew all of the backstory. How did Madara know? Madara's right and left EMS eyes are connected. The right half of Danzo's body is slowly being transformed by the implanted EMS, and this allows Madara to know about Danzo's dealings and vice versa. This also explains Madara's vulnerability. As Madara himself admitted, if he didn't keep some secrets from Itachi, he'd be dead. Had Itachi known that Madara's right eye was possessed by Danzo, Itachi could have killed Madara by going after Danzo, destroying the right eye, and consequently destroying Madara's EMS immortality.

In recent chapters, Madara has spoken about implementing his Moon's Eye plan. The Moon God was born from the right eye of Izanagi and so Madara plans to recover his right eye from Danzo. His current right eye is Obito's Sharingan. Obito's MS has the ability of Kamui, which can create time-space warp holes. Kakashi's use of this MS is limited, however when Madara uses it from within the body of a true Uchiha, he can teleport himself, or parts of himself, instantaneously over long distances.

[james0246]

^Sounds like fun fanfiction. Please go write the story, and then we can criteque it.

[Hiking_Bear]

Why would I write a story? It's not a story, but a theory that tries to tie together what we know into something cohesive. If I were trying to write a story, I wouldn't begin it with "I think that".

[lonewolf777]

On an altogether unrelated note, I wonder what Mizukage's past with guys is.... seems pretty obvious that she has some kind of problem with men and engagements... she was probably jilted or something...

[james0246]

I just realized, with Naruto actually attending the Kage Summit, it might be possible that my original desire for Danzou to reveal Naruto's heritage to the Tsuchikage could very well become a reality. I can definetly envision a scenario in whcih Naruto shows up at the event only for Danzou to theaten to tell Iwa about Naruto's heritage, only for Naruto to then turn the situation around and announce his heritage to all the Kage.

Whatever the case, I really want to see Iwa's reaction to Naruto's heritage...

[Sazelyt]

Now the samurais. What a twist! In a comical fashion.

But, Danzou's Sharingan (I think this tops any ridiciluous thing we had seen so far, the only thing that may top this is Madara having Rinnegan), his deeper connections to Orochimaru. Interesting. Knowing this I can understand why he was eager to get rid of the Uchihas. But, unless he and Madara work together, it will be nice to see his reaction to Madara's existence.

Anyways, since I haven't posted for some time, I need to give my impression on Naruto's explanation of what Yondaime told to him, a bit late. Of course that also includes Kakashi's mention of what a father son meet can bring. I was disappointed.

[DarkHollowIchigo]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Here are my thoughts on Danzo-Obito-Tobi-Madara. (hypothesis only)

I think that when Madara was defeated by Hashirama, he was left for dead at the VOE. But, a young, ambitious Danzo went to the VOE seeking to gain Madara's power. Danzo stole the right eye from Madara's corpse and implanted it. The remains of Madara's body were recovered/devoured by Zetsu (the left Sharingan was saved). The effect of EMS was that as long as his eye survived in a living host, Madara was never truly destroyed (somewhat analogous to Sauron's Ring from LOTR). Thus Danzo was unknowingly responsible for Madara's survival. However, Madara was unable to resurface for quite a while, since he was without a body.

Many years later, Zetsu discovered an Uchiha body, the body of Uchiha Obito. In order for Madara to be reborn, it was necessary that the host body be an Uchiha body. Zetsu was somehow able to communicate with Madara's consciousness. And under Madara's instruction, Zetsu proceeded to implant Madara's left eye into Obito's dead body. This was the creation of Tobi.

Immediately following his resurrection, Madara thought only on revenge. In the period of one year, he found the 9-tailed demon fox and used his left eye to order it to attack Konoha. The attack was thwarted by Namikaze Minato, the fourth hokage, who sealed the Kyuubi's chakra with Shiki Fuujin. Minato also used the Shiki Fuujin to seal a portion of himself within Naruto. Minato would later remark to Naruto (during his fight with Pain) that the masked ninja who summoned the Kyuubi (i.e. Tobi) was able to see through all of his techniques. The reason Madara was able to see through Minato's techniques was precisely due to the fact that Madara's host body was Obito, one of Minato's students. Hence all of Obito's knowledge about the fourth hokage's techs was also known to Madara.

Now fast forward to Madara's story about the background of Uchiha Itachi. Madara spoke of specific conversations that were supposedly known only to the three elders, the third hokage, and Itachi. He also told Sasuke that Itachi died unaware that Madara also knew all of the backstory. How did Madara know? Madara's right and left EMS eyes are connected. The right half of Danzo's body is slowly being transformed by the implanted EMS, and this allows Madara to know about Danzo's dealings and vice versa. This also explains Madara's vulnerability. As Madara himself admitted, if he didn't keep some secrets from Itachi, he'd be dead. Had Itachi known that Madara's right eye was possessed by Danzo, Itachi could have killed Madara by going after Danzo, destroying the right eye, and consequently destroying Madara's EMS immortality.

In recent chapters, Madara has spoken about implementing his Moon's Eye plan. The Moon God was born from the right eye of Izanagi and so Madara plans to recover his right eye from Danzo. His current right eye is Obito's Sharingan. Obito's MS has the ability of Kamui, which can create time-space warp holes. Kakashi's use of this MS is limited, however when Madara uses it from within the body of a true Uchiha, he can teleport himself, or parts of himself, instantaneously over long distances.

Very impressive.

[irrational]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Here are my thoughts on Danzo-Obito-Tobi-Madara. (hypothesis only)

I think that when Madara was defeated by Hashirama, he was left for dead at the VOE. But, a young, ambitious Danzo went to the VOE seeking to gain Madara's power. Danzo stole the right eye from Madara's corpse and implanted it. The remains of Madara's body were recovered/devoured by Zetsu (the left Sharingan was saved). The effect of EMS was that as long as his eye survived in a living host, Madara was never truly destroyed (somewhat analogous to Sauron's Ring from LOTR). Thus Danzo was unknowingly responsible for Madara's survival. However, Madara was unable to resurface for quite a while, since he was without a body.

Many years later, Zetsu discovered an Uchiha body, the body of Uchiha Obito. In order for Madara to be reborn, it was necessary that the host body be an Uchiha body. Zetsu was somehow able to communicate with Madara's consciousness. And under Madara's instruction, Zetsu proceeded to implant Madara's left eye into Obito's dead body. This was the creation of Tobi.

Immediately following his resurrection, Madara thought only on revenge. In the period of one year, he found the 9-tailed demon fox and used his left eye to order it to attack Konoha. The attack was thwarted by Namikaze Minato, the fourth hokage, who sealed the Kyuubi's chakra with Shiki Fuujin. Minato also used the Shiki Fuujin to seal a portion of himself within Naruto. Minato would later remark to Naruto (during his fight with Pain) that the masked ninja who summoned the Kyuubi (i.e. Tobi) was able to see through all of his techniques. The reason Madara was able to see through Minato's techniques was precisely due to the fact that Madara's host body was Obito, one of Minato's students. Hence all of Obito's knowledge about the fourth hokage's techs was also known to Madara.

Now fast forward to Madara's story about the background of Uchiha Itachi. Madara spoke of specific conversations that were supposedly known only to the three elders, the third hokage, and Itachi. He also told Sasuke that Itachi died unaware that Madara also knew all of the backstory. How did Madara know? Madara's right and left EMS eyes are connected. The right half of Danzo's body is slowly being transformed by the implanted EMS, and this allows Madara to know about Danzo's dealings and vice versa. This also explains Madara's vulnerability. As Madara himself admitted, if he didn't keep some secrets from Itachi, he'd be dead. Had Itachi known that Madara's right eye was possessed by Danzo , Itachi could have killed Madara by going after Danzo, destroying the right eye, and consequently destroying Madara's EMS immortality.

In recent chapters, Madara has spoken about implementing his Moon's Eye plan. The Moon God was born from the right eye of Izanagi and so Madara plans to recover his right eye from Danzo. His current right eye is Obito's Sharingan. Obito's MS has the ability of Kamui, which can create time-space warp holes. Kakashi's use of this MS is limited, however when Madara uses it from within the body of a true Uchiha, he can teleport himself, or parts of himself, instantaneously over long distances.

Not bad....in fact i agree it's a well rounded theory. However my only criticism would be that if Danzou has Madara's right eye that would mean that Madara should still have his left eye (which would make no sense because his left eye is covered up), and also kakashi has the only eye that obito had that wasn't destroyed making it impossible (although nothing's impossible in naruto) for Madara to obtain obito's other eye.

Overall though i think your theory is good in general.

[SMASHERJACKSON]

Originally Posted by Hiking_Bear

Here are my thoughts on Danzo-Obito-Tobi-Madara. (hypothesis only)

I think that when Madara was defeated by Hashirama, he was left for dead at the VOE. But, a young, ambitious Danzo went to the VOE seeking to gain Madara's power. Danzo stole the right eye from Madara's corpse and implanted it. The remains of Madara's body were recovered/devoured by Zetsu (the left Sharingan was saved). The effect of EMS was that as long as his eye survived in a living host, Madara was never truly destroyed (somewhat analogous to Sauron's Ring from LOTR). Thus Danzo was unknowingly responsible for Madara's survival. However, Madara was unable to resurface for quite a while, since he was without a body.

Many years later, Zetsu discovered an Uchiha body, the body of Uchiha Obito. In order for Madara to be reborn, it was necessary that the host body be an Uchiha body. Zetsu was somehow able to communicate with Madara's consciousness. And under Madara's instruction, Zetsu proceeded to implant Madara's left eye into Obito's dead body. This was the creation of Tobi.

Immediately following his resurrection, Madara thought only on revenge. In the period of one year, he found the 9-tailed demon fox and used his left eye to order it to attack Konoha. The attack was thwarted by Namikaze Minato, the fourth hokage, who sealed the Kyuubi's chakra with Shiki Fuujin. Minato also used the Shiki Fuujin to seal a portion of himself within Naruto. Minato would later remark to Naruto (during his fight with Pain) that the masked ninja who summoned the Kyuubi (i.e. Tobi) was able to see through all of his techniques. The reason Madara was able to see through Minato's techniques was precisely due to the fact that Madara's host body was Obito, one of Minato's students. Hence all of Obito's knowledge about the fourth hokage's techs was also known to Madara.

Now fast forward to Madara's story about the background of Uchiha Itachi. Madara spoke of specific conversations that were supposedly known only to the three elders, the third hokage, and Itachi. He also told Sasuke that Itachi died unaware that Madara also knew all of the backstory. How did Madara know? Madara's right and left EMS eyes are connected. The right half of Danzo's body is slowly being transformed by the implanted EMS, and this allows Madara to know about Danzo's dealings and vice versa. This also explains Madara's vulnerability. As Madara himself admitted, if he didn't keep some secrets from Itachi, he'd be dead. Had Itachi known that Madara's right eye was possessed by Danzo, Itachi could have killed Madara by going after Danzo, destroying the right eye, and consequently destroying Madara's EMS immortality.

In recent chapters, Madara has spoken about implementing his Moon's Eye plan. The Moon God was born from the right eye of Izanagi and so Madara plans to recover his right eye from Danzo. His current right eye is Obito's Sharingan. Obito's MS has the ability of Kamui, which can create time-space warp holes. Kakashi's use of this MS is limited, however when Madara uses it from within the body of a true Uchiha, he can teleport himself, or parts of himself, instantaneously over long distances.

nice idea, u could be right

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by james0246

I just realized, with Naruto actually attending the Kage Summit, it might be possible that my original desire for Danzou to reveal Naruto's heritage to the Tsuchikage could very well become a reality. I can definetly envision a scenario in whcih Naruto shows up at the event only for Danzou to theaten to tell Iwa about Naruto's heritage, only for Naruto to then turn the situation around and announce his heritage to all the Kage.

Whatever the case, I really want to see Iwa's reaction to Naruto's heritage...

Hearing how the Tsuchikage is known to be a warmonger and the village shown to be a very war hungry village and considering his age it is plausible to assume he is older than Danzou who was Sarutobi's age meaning he was there during the Third Great Shinobi War meaning he probably holds great resentment towards Minato and his kin for what they did to Iwagakure during the war so I think Kakashi who was also responsible for quite a lot and son of the White Fang might be in for a whole world of rage as well as Naruto.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Hearing how the Tsuchikage is known to be a warmonger and the village shown to be a very war hungry village and considering his age it is plausible to assume he is older than Danzou who was Sarutobi's age meaning he was there during the Third Great Shinobi War meaning he probably holds great resentment towards Minato and his kin for what they did to Iwagakure during the war so I think Kakashi who was also responsible for quite a lot and son of the White Fang might be in for a whole world of rage as well as Naruto.

Well I don't know about Tsuchikage and Iwa showing much resentment for Minato. He was infamous in Iwa during the war, yes, because he was extremely strong. But the Rock and the Leaf were officially at war. Killing each other was their business. If Minato had simply murdered unsuspecting Rock-nin in cold-blood, it would be different. But Minato was a soldier doing his duty and that can even gain the respect of enemies. Hell, we saw Hanzou even commended the Sannin and spare their lives because they had done so well slaughtering his own men.

If the Tsuchikage understands war, he's probably not that resentful of Minato or Konoha. Especially considering the Naruto ninja world, where your most hated enemy can be your ally the very next day. The only reason I would see for resentment is if the Tsuchikage had a close relative (like a son or brother) that was personally killed by Minato. This was the reason Chiyo held a grudge against White Fang.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

If the Tsuchikage understands war, he's probably not that resentful of Minato or Konoha. Especially considering the Naruto ninja world, where your most hated enemy can be your ally the very next day. The only reason I would see for resentment is if the Tsuchikage had a close relative (like a son or brother) that was personally killed by Minato. This was the reason Chiyo held a grudge against White Fang.

Except, as Mianto specifically said, Naruto's heritage was hidden due to Minato's enemies. The only real enemy that we know Mianto had was Iwa. Consequently, it stands to reason that if any group would be interested in Naruto's heritage, it would be the Iwa delegation.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by james0246

Except, as Mianto specifically said, Naruto's heritage was hidden due to Minato's enemies. The only real enemy that we know Mianto had was Iwa. Consequently, it stands to reason that if any group would be interested in Naruto's heritage, it would be the Iwa delegation.

What Yondaime said is vague. Iwakagure is just the only enemy we've ever seen him face besides the Kyuubi but that doesn't mean that they're the enemies Minato specifically had mind, he could've very well been talking about Madara or maybe even Danzou. But he could've just been talking in general. Being a ninja means you'll have enemies. And the stronger/more dangerous you are, the more enemies you're likely to gain. But mostly, I think the point was just an explanation of why Naruto was never informed about Minato being his father. So far, the portrayal of the Tsuchikage hasn't been antagonistic and I don't think his blood would boil at finding out Minato had a son. At most, I think if the point comes up he'd maybe mention how Yellow Flash caused a lot of trouble for him during the war, but other than that I don't see it being a major source of tension.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

What Yondaime said is vague. Iwakagure is just the only enemy we've ever seen him face besides the Kyuubi but that doesn't mean that they're the enemies Minato specifically had mind, he could've very well been talking about Madara or maybe even Danzou.

I never discounted that Minato's enemies could be larger or smaller than we know. Rather, I mentioned the one enemy that placed a flee on sight order on Minato, and was defeated seemingly singlehandedly by Minato's abilities (it's one thing to lose in a one-on-one fight, there is no shame in that, but for an entire army to lose to one man?).

It seems a bit presumptious to assume that simply because the Tsuchikage seems like a nice old man that he is really a nice old man. For all we know, he could be enjoying life simply because Minato's dead, and now that Minato's legacy has surfaced, he will lose all of his cheerfulness, and attempt something drastic. Obviously this is a bit far-fetched, but, to emphasize a point, Minato revealing that enemies would want to kill Naruto, and Iwa's introduction occured, right after each other, to the point where it is hard to ignore the possibility that there might be a connection.

[-Sho-]

Ahah with this chapter its kinda feel like Danzo is the true enemy
Well , he's strong as you can see . So with his full power it'll be a badass .
Iron village huh in the ice mountain . Sasuke is already here . Naruto is coming .
It'll be a carnage


( A little note for the other characters like Neji , Rock etc ... , i don't like how Kishi make them less strong than before , now they are shit compared to others ... yet they were badass in Season 1 )