One Piece - Chapter 846 [manga]

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by noktown

I'm getting annoyed at this point, are we getting another "I'll protect everyone" time skip after this arc or what ? Cuz Luffy just got rekt real hard and couldn't protect shit. The gap can't be this big between Luffy and Mom's crew, not even the Emperor herself just her crew...

Luffy was totally outnumbered and outpowered.. If we can see Doflamingo's crew, they have high-ranked officer such as Sugar, Gladius, Machvise, Lao G even Dellinger aside of their executives.

He doesn't have allies nearby at this point and we don't know how many are the High-ranked officer are sent only to defeat Luffy and Nami.

[Azurial]

Originally Posted by noktown

I'm getting annoyed at this point, are we getting another "I'll protect everyone" time skip after this arc or what ? Cuz Luffy just got rekt real hard and couldn't protect shit. The gap can't be this big between Luffy and Mom's crew, not even the Emperor herself just her crew...

Well you can't just go around and have Luffy beat everyone he sees as an enemy ofc he need to be beaten down too. if Luffy one shot all of Big Mom commander that would be too easy and if its like that I think something must've gone wrong with Oda :P Big Mom is one of the Yonko of course her crew would be strong and tough to beat. Even two years time skip Luffy just barely defeated Doflamingo. Also Luffy is outnumbered if it was 1on1 ofc he have high chance to win but no.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Not to mention that Luffy just finished fighting Cracker for 11 hours so it's not like he's at 100%. Things are only going to get tougher from here on out. Luffy is playing with the big leagues now so it's expected he's going to get his ass handed to him every now and then.

[Gilly]

Man, even with Jimbe, Pekoms and Caesar's help I just can't see Luffy being the victor in this arc. He should've attacked Germa 66 instead of Big Mom's forces. Destroy Germa's technology and defeat the Vinsmokes (who I bet would be much easier targets than the Yonko crew), and the marriage loses its purpose, leading to Sanji's freedom.

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by noktown

I'm getting annoyed at this point, are we getting another "I'll protect everyone" time skip after this arc or what ? Cuz Luffy just got rekt real hard and couldn't protect shit. The gap can't be this big between Luffy and Mom's crew, not even the Emperor herself just her crew...

Why wouldn't the gap be this big? He is literally up against one of the strongest crews in the world, and he's only been on the grandline for close to three years.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

People criticise Sanji for how he tried to get his crew off the island, but how would you have done it? Luffy would not have taken "please leave me here" for an answer, plus he needed to convince the Vinsmokes that he was done resisting for Zeff's sake. Yeah, he should have known better than to think his strategy would work, but maybe he did. It was his best shot.

First of all, Sanji left on different pretenses than Robin did. He didn't say "we'll never see each other again." He said "I'll brb, gotta see this chick real quick." On that note, he did not expect them to come after him in the first place. But now that they're here and now that Luffy's already worn out anyway, in the middle of enemy territory, he needed to make them leave before it was too late, and that was the best possible solution he was able to think of. Plus, one of the reasons he wants them to leave is for Zeff's sake. If Sanji can't convince Big Mom and Judge that he's on their "site" now, his old man is in trouble. And he can't do that with the strawhats around. If Zeff wasn't a factor, he'd come with them.

It wasn't his best shot, not at all. Sanji should know how stubborn Luffy is and how he would not except "no" for an answer. Trying to push him away is only gonna make him fight harder. It was pretty damn predictable how it would turn out. Hell Sanji basically tried to pull the same stunt that Robin pulled... he himself refused to believe what robin said and did to them and wouldn't leave Robin and he expects the crew not to do the same for him? He should've known that would not work and would only make things worst

They ONLY thing that MIGHT get Luffy to leave is to convince him that he would be fine on his own and he would return. Only if Sanji could promise he would come back would Luffy actually consider backing down for his own safety, while trusting sanji to do handle it. During his fight with Luffy he probably could have whispered something to him

Alternatively, as i said before, he could have taken the path of least resistance and accepted their help. If he really can't escape by himself then allow his friends to help him. If they are gonna stay regardless of what he says or does then he might aswell let them do something useful... heck they're gonna try to save him anyway, he might aswell make it easy for them by cooperating

I am enjoying this arc overall, but this does feel like a big misstep

[ZGoten]

Sanji needs to play his family and Big Mom, he can't tell Luffy and Nami that it'll be fine and he'll join them later. And what would he have whispered to them anyway? Tell them to beat up a Yonko's army and the Vinsmokes with half their crew and get back to the Baratie as well to make sure they don't retaliate? It just wouldn't work. The immediate danger everyone is in right now far exceeds the situation on Water 7 and Enies Lobby. As far as Sanji is concerned, there's no way the Strawhats can help him. And I tend to agree, honestly. I think what he did was his best option, when it comes to making Luffy leave, even if there was only a slim chance it'd work.

[Rainbowman]

Originally Posted by Gilly

Man, even with Jimbe, Pekoms and Caesar's help I just can't see Luffy being the victor in this arc. He should've attacked Germa 66 instead of Big Mom's forces. Destroy Germa's technology and defeat the Vinsmokes (who I bet would be much easier targets than the Yonko crew), and the marriage loses its purpose, leading to Sanji's freedom.

The Vinsmoke family would be an easy target if only Sanji could tell the truth about his past.

[marvelB]

While I do understand the concerns surrounding Sanji's behavior, I think it's necessary to really think deeply about the kind of situation he's in: Simply put, this conflict is too deeply personal for him. I mean, not only did his birth family who abused him (both physically AND emotionally) pop up back into his life out of the blue, but they, together with the assistance of one of the most powerful pirates in the world, threatened not only his crew (who are essentially his family), but even the man he looked up to as a father figure. And if that weren't enough, they even threatened to jeopardize his one calling in life - to be a fine cook - by forcing him to obey their commands, lest his hands get blown up by those cuff bombs. So considering the insane amount of pressure he has to endure right now, I think it's fair to say that our dear friend Sanji is not in his most rational state of mind right now. So even if he is confident that the crew can take care of themselves (which I'm sure he does), the added threats towards Zeff and his own profession are still weighing heavily against him. And simply put, a careless action from him or any of his friends could cost him dearly. So that being said, as frustrating as it may be, I think the circumstances make it clear why Sanji may very well at his weakest right now.... it's either subservience or risk having everything he loves getting destroyed. And it's pretty difficult to keep a cool, collected head when one must burden such massive pressure....


And to be a bit more fair.... I think he has good reason to worry for his crew. I mean, Luffy and Nami DID just get gangbanged by a literal army of Big Mom's more powerful forces (and this was not long after Luffy just finished fighting a dude who had the power to create his own army of cookie men, lol ). I still think they would eventually go down even if they had Zoro, Franky, or Law there to help....

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by Rainbowman

The Vinsmoke family would be an easy target if only Sanji could tell the truth about his past.

But you can't fight the Vinsmokes as isolated targets. If you fight the Vinsmokes, you fight Big Mom's crew as well. Unless the dynamic changes. But for now, that's the case.

[Orochiro]

Damn that part with Amande was pretty brutal... Same with the smoothie squeezing part.
I guess Shirauo is an Oo-Wazamono tier sword, though it could be Saijo Oo-Wazamono too.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

Sanji needs to play his family and Big Mom, he can't tell Luffy and Nami that it'll be fine and he'll join them later. And what would he have whispered to them anyway? Tell them to beat up a Yonko's army and the Vinsmokes with half their crew and get back to the Baratie as well to make sure they don't retaliate? It just wouldn't work. The immediate danger everyone is in right now far exceeds the situation on Water 7 and Enies Lobby. As far as Sanji is concerned, there's no way the Strawhats can help him. And I tend to agree, honestly. I think what he did was his best option, when it comes to making Luffy leave, even if there was only a slim chance it'd work.

There was absolute zero chance that luffy would believe him and give up on him. Trying to do what Robin did to try and push Luffy away was absolutely guaranteed to end with Luffy doing something reckless and stupid. A plan that is guaranteed to fail can never be described as the "best option".

Hell if he was gonna lie, a much better lie would have been whispering to them that he's already got an escape plan and they just need to trust him. Atleast that would have a chance of getting Luffy to back off and wait instead of doing something reckless


As for how they could potentially help, He could have simply whispered that he's got bombs strapped to his wrists and they are threatening to kill his old man. After that he just lets his crew figure out for themselves what they can do... and by "crew" i mean "Nami" cause she's the brains of this operation. Simply by knowing the situation they would actually have a possibility of making a working decision on what to do instead of doing something stupid... like sitting there and doing nothing while an army attacks them

Knowing what's wrong with Sanji they could have backed down, ran/hid from Big Mom's forces and figured out what they could do for Sanji... At that point Luffy and Nami would have 3 options. Figure out a way to rescue to Sanji, Give up Sanji because they can't come up with anything, or do something reckless and stupid. That's two options better than What Sanji went with. Like I said, If Luffy is gonna do something reckless and stupid anyway, you might aswell make sure he's actually informed so that their might be a method behind his stupidity


Who knows what they could come up with. Maybe they would find a way to turn Mama against the vinsmokes so she'll have no interest in the marriage. Without the marriage she won't threaten Zeff. Nami could steal the keys to free sanji so he is no longer be threatened with the bracelets... and then they go beat up Sanji's family (frankly, i am expecting this arc to end not with a showdown with mama, but with the strawhats taking on the vinsmokes)

[imza]

Or Sanji could not have gone at all to see his family. Like I said, I’m enjoying this arc but Sanji’s character to me has been hurt. It doesn’t fit in with his and the crews development.

My only hope after this point is that Luffy doesn’t have to do any further convincing to Sanji and that Sanji gets himself out of it. That at least would somewhat justify his decision of trying to address this whole issue by himself.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by imza

Or Sanji could not have gone at all to see his family.

Problem with that is ignoring his family's summons is tantamount to a death sentence for Zeff. Like I said in my previous post, the Vinsmokes/Big Mom have a very tight emotional hold on Sanji, and that kind of thing IS going to have a negative effect on a person's judgment, like it or not. Personally, I'm not happy with the guy's behavior either, but I can definitely understand why he's acting the way he is. Of course, I'm also confident that Luffy and co. will find a solution for his problems, but right now, at this moment...... he's a desperate man who's at risk of losing everything he's cared for. And I think it's safe to say that a desperate situation is going to call for desperate actions......

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Who knows what they could come up with. Maybe they would find a way to turn Mama against the vinsmokes so she'll have no interest in the marriage. Without the marriage she won't threaten Zeff. Nami could steal the keys to free sanji so he is no longer be threatened with the bracelets... and then they go beat up Sanji's family (frankly, i am expecting this arc to end not with a showdown with mama, but with the strawhats taking on the vinsmokes)

They even doesn't have full power for this battle anyway while the main objective is to rescue, not engaging Yonko. They are not familiar yet with the opponents at the New World that was above standard marine levels. The marines here are also not sniffing their actions so they won't face Big Mom possibly until the appearance of the third admiral itself.

By the way i'm still curious.. Did Rumbar Pirates makes Binks Sake song? I think Big Mom pirates could be flattered if they heard Binks Sake and the only remaining Rumbar Pirates are still alive. Lola totally love that song and i bet not just Lola but Big Mom's crew also love it much.

[ZGoten]

He could not have whispered at all. People are watching. They're not stupid.

[imza]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Problem with that is ignoring his family's summons is tantamount to a death sentence for Zeff. Like I said in my previous post, the Vinsmokes/Big Mom have a very tight emotional hold on Sanji, and that kind of thing IS going to have a negative effect on a person's judgment, like it or not. Personally, I'm not happy with the guy's behavior either, but I can definitely understand why he's acting the way he is. Of course, I'm also confident that Luffy and co. will find a solution for his problems, but right now, at this moment...... he's a desperate man who's at risk of losing everything he's cared for. And I think it's safe to say that a desperate situation is going to call for desperate actions......

I would buy that if Sanji was told about Zeff from the beginning. He wasn’t though, he went willingly.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

He could not have whispered at all. People are watching. They're not stupid.

Just because they're watching doesn't mean they can hear everything. Kick luffy about 100 yards away. No one would hear him whisper anything if he's that far away.

Originally Posted by imza

I would buy that if Sanji was told about Zeff from the beginning. He wasn’t though, he went willingly.

He was warned. Capone's minion, Vito, told him what would happen if he refused Mama's Tea party invite. We the audience didn't get to hear it, but Sanji did. Pekoms even told the strawhats later that refusing mama's invite always results in her going after a loved one

[imza]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Just because they're watching doesn't mean they can hear everything. Kick luffy about 100 yards away. No one would hear him whisper anything if he's that far away.



He was warned. Capone's minion, Vito, told him what would happen if he refused Mama's Tea party invite. We the audience didn't get to hear it, but Sanji did. Pekoms even told the strawhats later that refusing mama's invite always results in her going after a loved one

I’ll have to re-read but I thought it was implied they would go after the straw hats, which is why he did not bring the crew with him. He also seemed surprised when Zeff was mentioned, as if he had not even considered the possibility.

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Just because they're watching doesn't mean they can hear everything. Kick luffy about 100 yards away. No one would hear him whisper anything if he's that far away.

There are homies everywhere around Sanji. Even if none of them heard anything (which I find highly unlikely), just the sight of Sanji whispering something in secret could potentially doom him. You are being way too optimistic about this whole situation.

@imza

We found out a couple of chapters ago that Vito was talking about Zeff. They showed the same scene again, as a flashback, and revealed that.