2011-07-04, 01:59 | Link #7441 | |||
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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Also where is it that she was captured again? She went to the order of her own will to run it. She then left when she learned of Marianne's death. There is then a gap in what we know of her and where she went, though we know she was with Lelouch and Nunnally for SOME period of time before the war. I can't remember if it was said where/when she was captured, so I'm just going to assume she was captured in Tokyo... probably not too long before she forms the contract with Lelouch. Who was also in Tokyo. During the year gap between R1 (if you want to call it that) and R2 she isn't captured, she is just in hiding with some of the other Black Knights who weren't captured like Kallen. At the end of R2 she probably goes back into hiding, maybe somewhere in China? Even in this day and age there are still places where they use cart and horse and would maybe dress like that. It's said that in Code Geass China has a lot of poverty and stuff too, so it isn't that unlikely that there could be places like that where cart and horse were the main transportation. Plus obviously she got caught when she went to a more modern city and stuff... so why not do the opposite? Quote:
Now whether he would have broken it on his own if C.C. wasn't there I don't know. But he also had reason to break it, just like Nunnally did, but when he broke it Charles was still alive. If it was because of (or helped by) contact with C.C. then contact with a Code holder obviously effects Geass in some way. Quote:
She had the FLEIJA Launcher given to her because she requested it. She wanted to basically do the same thing that Lelouch was doing with Zero Requiem. Make a symbol of hatred so that there could be peace. I don't know if she planned on killing herself, destroying Damacles (sp?) or what, but that was basically why Lelouch used his Geass on her. He was all like "no, I can't, I wont!" until she said she wanted to make a symbol of hatred so that there could be peace... Next thing you know he has the launcher. What my theory is/implies is that she had that time to recover her eyesight already. Any nerve damage or something from the lack of sight for the last 8 years is repaired. However, because she had been blind for so long and didn't know she wasn't, she basically stayed blind. When she opened her eyes it probably wasn't clear sight until the time passed to when Lelouch came up though. If she did just suddenly break the Geass and it hadn't possibly worn off, then it should have been like if you just took off a blindfold after wearing it for 8 years. There is like no way she should be able to see. If they had just drawn her with her eyes open but said she was blind then there wouldn't be any problem. The Geass just blocked a pathway and then it's gone and no damage. But her eyes being closed throughout everything changes the dynamics. There just needs to be some time for any damage to be sort of repaired, and if she suddenly breaks it I just don't see that time.
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2011-07-04, 02:15 | Link #7442 |
Comfortably Noxious
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Between the Forest and Shadow Temples
Age: 28
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He's level headed.
How and where he is the most level headed:
Spoiler for Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2, Lelouch confronts Charles Zi Britannia in C's World:
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2011-07-04, 08:38 | Link #7444 | ||
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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That was Lelouch character-base. A lie.
Even Suzaku and Kallen clearly said that everything he said is just a lie if there's no action. By sacrificing himself ( to atone his sins ) he force a lie called "Peace" to the world. How a lie save a world and those precious for you. Quote:
Re's episode preview is showing Lelouch flashback. And C.C. clothes during that scene ( seeing Suzaku and Lelouch as child ) is a clothes that only shown as the series progress, especially in World of C event. As a side note, C.C. won't get those clothes without getting captured, as shown by Kallen as she's being captured after China Arc. It's possibly a reference that C.C. is remembering Lelouch after R2 Turn 25, as C.C. never seen their childhood until she makes a pact with Lelouch. Or possibly a reference that C.C. saw them before/after getting captured by Brittania as a test subject. Quote:
Nunnally clearly lose the FLEIJA Launcher when the Damocles is trembling. She's trying as hard as she can to find the Launcher. Why she's shocked as her head is moving to where the Launcher is located ? Why she's holding the Launcher when she met Lelouch. Draw your own conclusion |
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2011-07-04, 11:05 | Link #7445 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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He didn't even have to sacrifice himself to atone or bring peace. Infact, he caused even more destruction with what he did. He could have just been a good leader to bring about peace, and more of a sure thing at that, and to atone as well.
"Sacrificing himself" was just an excuse to commit suicide after everything he had lost, including Nunnally's apparent death at the time he began his plan. He took the coward's way out, even if he had a ton of crap dumped on him. |
2011-07-04, 11:46 | Link #7446 | |
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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There's Schniezel out there. Schniezel is able demonstrate how OoBK betray him by an excuse called Geass. If it's worked well to OoBK, UFN is an easy task for him. If he kill Schniezel, it'll justify that Schniezel is true. If he geassing Schniezel, it won't make any differences but time that judged everything again. If Lelouch is managed to live and being a good leader. Will he be able to live without accusations ? OoBK clearly judge him as the one who guilt. It's not an easy life. Proving you're a good guy everyday, is that called life ? If Brittania is still exist by his lead. Will the world really change just by abolishing Numbers ? Will the war really ended ? That's why the words is "Break the chain of hatred" Making sure the new world have no accusations toward each other. Lelouch said this in Ragnarok Connection, "The world that Nunnally wants is a world without accusations toward each other." He reached this by Zero Requiem. As well as fulfilling Suzaku and Kallen wish as his main goal. It's the Guidebook that the one said "the main goal is an atonement." Lelouch who wants to live, atone his sins through death. Suzaku who wants to die, atone his sins through live. Until the very end, Suzaku still insists, "Are you really want to do this ?" It's not about running away anymore. At first, it maybe a coward's way. But it comes into a good resolution, even after he knew Nunnally is still alive. But still, the ends justify everything. No one complaining about what happens to Mt. Fuji in CG realm. It's Lelouch the Demon Emperor who destroy it. He's a demon. That's all. If there's any excuse, everything will be wrote in a History book and explained through a History subject at school. We-- the watchers are the one complaining because we knew that Sakuradite is supplying 70% worlds energy and luckily, we're not watching it in the battlefield itself |
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2011-07-04, 16:47 | Link #7447 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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If you read Mutuality, you'll see that he was despondent over Nunnally's apparent demise. Also, and this is important, when Suzaku asks him whether there are other methods for taking care of Schneizel and achieving peace, he confirms that there are. The atonement through death simply doesn't make sense because of everything he's doing to get there, from brainwashing mooks, putting masks on them and treating them as cannon fodder. He also assassinated many rebelling families, who C. C. noted had a right to object to him taking their status away. All of this was far worse than what Lelouch was supposedly atoning for. Not to mention, of course, that unsatisfyingly, people responsible for either the betrayal or the strife that he was trying to STOP, such as Ohgi, Villetta and Cornelia, walked away with reasonably happy endings. Last edited by azul120; 2011-07-04 at 22:09. |
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2011-07-05, 02:18 | Link #7448 | |||||
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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Right, but Lelouch was talking about how his past was shaping his descision and actions. That really has nothing to do with anything I believe.
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In the World of C event she is wearing the darker black/purple color version of the clothes she is captured in. As you can see that isn't what she is wearing in the first episode. She is wearing (close to ) the same color, but you can plainly see one of those waist sash belt things (don't know the name) and a sunflower on the side. Nowhere else (that I remember) is she wearing that. In in the World of C event she also is wearing a sort of black knight unifrom, which again is nowhere near what she is wearing in ep 1. Spoiler for Large Image:
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His only option would be to use Geass on Xing-Ke and Kaguya and other UFN members to win them over to his cause and declare the OotBK rebels. But then who will able to bring them to "justice"? Don't forget that to join the UFN countries had to disband their armies. Kaguya may have trusted him some, but she was still being cautious as she didn't know what was going and what to expect. She also did buy into the Geass thing as evidenced by the fact that she took precautions so that no one could be Geassed by him. As for the BK not being saints... while that is true, where is the betrayal you're talking about? Do you mean joining forces with Schneizel? How does that betray the UFN? They were still a "private company" and if they wanted to go try to kill Lelouch it's not like that was going against something the UFN said. Nor were they keen on attacking Lelouch's flagship because there were representatives from the UFN on it.. Schneizel was the one pushing for that, and he made them obey his commands to prevent him from doing that. Or do you mean them turning on Lelouch was the betrayal? 99.9% of the members of it didn't know Lelouch was Zero and thought Zero died in battle. They were just dutiful soldiers following orders. Ohgi and the higher ups were the ones who "betrayed" him, but they had a valid reason to as he was being secretive and they didn't know if their actions were their own or not. Granted if they were Geassed they shouldn't have been able to think about betraying him, so that is proof they weren't... if they were thinking. But for the bulk of the order they knew nothing. Quote:
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There were other methods, but maybe they weren't as effective or took longer. Or maybe he chose the death one because of what he thought about Nunnally being dead and stuff. By the time he learned she was alive he was already committed so had to complete it. He couldn't change things, he was already walking down the path of blood and he couldn't suddenly go "oh, I'm actually a nice guy" and try to start a new path. I bet a lot of the other paths may have involved staying Zero and turning the OotBK into villains are you were saying above. But he went and (publically on world wide tv) admitted to killing his father and then proceded to Geass a ton of people... those who knew about the possibility of Geass (Kaguya, Xing-Ke, etc) now had proof it was true. What else could explain the sudden change. No, he HAD to stay on the path. He couldn't change now.
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2011-07-05, 04:28 | Link #7449 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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The quote Schneizel used was a recording of the words "I gave the order", which, as Tamaki noted, could have been anyone. Beyond that, said recording was a selective Quote Mining of the conversation, and regarding those words, Suzaku notes that Lelouch was lying about giving Euphie the geass command. Either way, Lelouch could have requested, as Emperor, a private meeting with the UFN and the Black Knights in order to demonstrate the limits of his Geass and clarify his usage of it. If they were to refuse him, they would be considered at fault. Quote:
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There are a couple of decent For Want of a Nail fanfics in the works by a writer called karndragon: Changing Course and Lelouch vi Britannia the 99th Emperor. The former is a what if scenario of Lelouch being saved from the betrayal by an OC instead of Rolo, and manages to secure Nunnally with his help, keeping him from the path of the Zero Requiem. The latter fic picks up from the latter part of Turn 21, only with Lelouch deciding to be a good emperor in memory of the ones he lost (or thought he did, in Nunnally's case). |
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2011-07-05, 06:57 | Link #7450 | |||||
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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In terms of lying, while it is true he was lying about it, he was only lying about the reason he did. I think that is the lie that Suzaku picked up on, as by then he knew all about Geass and there is no other way Euphy could have a change of heart. Quote:
Also why would he want them to know how his main weapon worked? He had a GREAT chance to tell Kallen about his Geass and how it worked in the second episode of R2, and he says jack to her about it. Look at how loyal she was already, if he had just spilled the beans about how he Geassed her at school to find out if she was at the ghetto and learned that you could only use it once... Well truth be told she'd probably be dead as I doubt she'd have even asked Lelouch about that thing when he got called to the hanger. And Lelouch only said what he said then because he thought he was going to die and didn't want her to die too. Quote:
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Sorry to say, but I just don't see how Lelouch could talk his way out of that. He could maybe Geass his way out, but if he's explaining his Geass already as part of being nice and all that... Geass makes people do anything. What other reason could there be for the sudden change of heart. Then you also have the fact that with how smart Zero was (granted no one knew his true identity then) and what he did it would be near impossible for someone to impersonate him and cause that incident. Especially with the radical change in Euphy which can really only be explained by Geass. Quote:
Yes, small actions can make a big change in events. But that doesn't mean that the events, and mindset behind the events that did actually happen, can be dismissed. Especially with someone as smart as Lelouch. Look at Mao and what kind of insight he can give on Lelouch's brain... 14 (or something) possibilities on who he was in a split second given VERY little information. Thinking about a ton of things at once to try to confuse him. Not to mention how many times did Lelouch say something about there being multiple courses of action in a lot of different things. You have to imagine he thought out what would happen if he did various things.
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2011-07-05, 09:51 | Link #7452 | ||
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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I see. I thought it was the same clothes before ^^;
But it doesn't proved enough that she's ( C.C. ) really watching them before. They could've meet somewhere-- because Lelouch spent his time hiding in Kururugi Shrine. I remembered there's a lot of things changed from the main story. Like Suzaku's connection with Geass, Kallen's plot, even how the 25th episode of S1 should ended. Maybe it was a part of it. Let's see how Shikkoku no Renya handle those things Quote:
If not, she won't ask about, "Did you use your Geass to bind my will?" That's enough clue-- especially by the fact that she spent most of her time to learn about Lelouch from C.C. It's not because she's loyal. At first, she needed him as Zero who guided them ( R2 Turn 7 ) Later, it turned to be something beyond devotion as she stated on her poem. Quote:
I also hated about Lelouch idea for there's no other way. But the Complete Guide noted this on Suzaku's page : "For the fact that he can atone for his sins through Zero's mask. As the results of fulfilling his own wish." Kallen's page : "Kallen realizes his thoughts for her- The little wish known as ‘I’d like you to fulfill your own dreams’.” After reading those line, for me, the reason why he chose Zero Requiem over Nunnally become reasonable. He'd rather choose to fulfill all of his pillars wishes rather than living with just to lose all of his pillars after losing all of his important people. The ZR also playing this in the following order, Spent the last romance moment with Kallen ( Turn 22 ) Spent the last friendship moment with Suzaku ( Turn 25 ) Spent the last brother moment with Nunnally ( Turn 25 ) It's impossible to evade Ougi, Viletta, and Cornelia huh ? I don't mind with Cornelia. Her foolishness is limited by the similar mindframe called Euphimia, just like Suzaku. The differences is, Suzaku learned and accept the truth, and Cornelia is learned but denying the truth. Ougi and Viletta ? I don't mind with their relationship during S1. Because it's natural. But well--- R2 really make me angst by the fact : - Accepting Schniezel to invade OoBK mindframe ( He's your enemy-- why he manufacturing the FLEIJA if it's not to eliminating all of you ) - Playing "I'm a victim, so i have enough reason to betray him" ( It's Lelouch who gave you that uniform and pride ) - Sent Kallen as a bait and almost kill her in process ( She's Naoto sister, your friends little sister-- Even you forgot about her during the time when she's captured just by Viletta cases ) - Trade Lelouch for Japan ( It's the same thing with trading UFN with Japan, are you an idiot ? I'm understand if it's Kaguya, but Todo to share this mindframe, WTF ) - There's a flying fortress as a nuclear station. And you're allowing this even for just a one battle ? Especially knowing there's enough time to learn that Pendragon is already dissapeared from the map ?! Or also to learn that Lelouch army is a lot weaker compared to yours ? Too bad Mt. Fuji eruption failed to kill him. But at least, he's located at the smallest and the furthest picture from the center on Kallen's board, not even his wedding picture located there. I'm satisfied enough with the fact that even one of the main characters who knew him didn't really appreciate his happiness Last edited by Tactics; 2011-07-05 at 11:16. |
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2011-07-05, 16:30 | Link #7453 | ||||||||||||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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If they were to not accept this, then that would demonstrate how callow they would be, given how they cooperated with Schneizel. Quote:
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Then you also have the fact that with how smart Zero was (granted no one knew his true identity then) and what he did it would be near impossible for someone to impersonate him and cause that incident. Especially with the radical change in Euphy which can really only be explained by Geass.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about the public, who he wouldn't be explaining Geass to. As far as everyone knew, Euphy reappeared completely contrary to her normal self. Quote:
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As for Villetta, well, she mostly sought nobility, to which effect she did the following: she used Shirley, who was heavily traumatized, in order to capture Zero, she was part of the spy detail watching over Lelouch in R2 for her knowledge of Geass and identity as Zero, and even following her exposure to Lelouch in later episodes (including him telling her he didn't want Shirley involved anymore), she has the nerve to testify against Lelouch on Ohgi's supposed behalf even though she should supposedly know Geass isn't as dangerous as was being insinuated. And naturally of course, she's taken in by the Black Knights with Ohgi's assistance, basically coasting, while doing nothing. And she was part of the Purist Faction to boot. That the both of them get the happiest ending in spite of all of this makes them almost as infuriating as Jay Leno. Quote:
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Kaguya herself was too smart too fall for that kind of a ruse, which was evidently why she was kept out of the discussion. Ditto Xing-ke. Quote:
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It disturbs me that he and Villetta get to start a family, while Lelouch, who had to carry a whole lot of the weight, dies a virgin. In my fanfic idea, Ohgi and Villetta are both taken into custody and eternal servitude by Zerozaku, their child is adopted by Kallen, who has assumed the surname Lamperouge, and renamed Shirley. And the rewritten birth story? She's the child of Kallen and Lelouch "Lamperouge", conceived not long before the death of the latter, who perished in the Mt. Fuji explosion. Poetic, no? Last edited by azul120; 2011-07-05 at 20:37. |
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2011-07-06, 00:01 | Link #7454 | |||
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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Where does he leave the other member nations out to dry also? They have no military power there (or anywhere) as to join the UFN they had to give it up. It's not like he pulled the BK back and let the Chinese Fed. army keep fighting... I can maybe buy/understand the thought that in other areas they may be left hanging except for two things: 1. Given how the Britannia Army operates it was probably only over Area 11 that there was a ceasefire. So if the BK had any units elsewhere they would still defend the areas they were stationed in. 2. If indeed all the BK strength was in Area 11 then they had already "betrayed" the UFN by not leaving a token defense force or something behind. But you have to figure the UFN had already known that and was ok with it. I understand that you want to paint Lelouch in a good light and most others are evil I can even sympathize with that as I don't think anyone would argue that Lelouch didn't get the short end of the stick and the betrayal of the BK was in bad tastes. That they didn't even give Lelouch a chance to argue his case was bad, especially given all he had done for them. That doesn't make them out to be the "super evil omg they all need to go die in fire" people that (the way I read it) you're making them out to be though. I'm not trying to say they were saints, again they definitely weren't. But if you take a step back from "omg villain, don't care about them" attitude you can see why they did what they did. You can also see that some things you're trying to lay the blame on them for (like betraying the UFN) may be more a product of hatred for them. Lelouch kept secrets and did things that people questioned. Even though he didn't think that they would get out, they did. Todo found out about the slaughter at the Order thing, and without context (and since no one knew about Geass...) that looks very VERY bad. He was keeping Corneillia locked up in secret on board the flagship too. Then what Villetta knew about him and told Ohgi... I bet she told him all about how he Geassed her, blackmailed her into helping him on school, etc. Again, those things look very bad. Then find out that he (and whether he meant to or not he did) ordered the death of lots of Japanese people to try to rally people to cause... He was supposed to be freeing them, not murdering them.
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2011-07-06, 02:54 | Link #7455 | ||
Haven't You Heard?
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South-east Asia
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Lelouch didn't have any problems showing his Geass to her. She didn't accused Lelouch for showing his Geass too. She knew that Lelouch is a liar who uses OoBK for his own advantages, she also understand his mindset clearly enough to find him in Shinjuku. If she didn't understand the limitation, how she can keep herself calm until Lelouch tease her ? ( I really like when Lelouch start to share a fun moment with her ) Quote:
I never really want to paint Lelouch in a good light. Look at how he value others after what had he done to Shirley in S1, he clearly told C.C. and Kallen that he won't give up taking the path of carnage even after he learns about the consequences (at least, he's trying to spare Kallen from that fate--despite being his trump card, which make him more "human"). I can't really say Lelouch is a good guy after all. The same rules applied to Suzaku also. I can't say that Lelouch kept secret from everyone is wrong. Look at Lelouch itself, what'll happens if everyone know that he's an exiled Brittania Prince, especially when he leads an anti-Brittania resistance, including the fact that his only goal is to form a gentle world for his sister--a very selfish and childish thought. The trade-off is Zero identity with their victory. If there's something wrong. What exactly wrong is what happens to OoBK itself. After they learn about his identity, his Geass, and even his background, they never really tried to talk to him first. They acted like they're already a winner after learns about their leaders secret and mistake. Without even realizing how far they've got through if it's not because of him. They didn't even think the consequences of throwing OoBK into a vacuum of power. Look at Kallen, she asked first before trying to kill him in Babel Tower. She's understand enough, if it's not because of him, they would'nt go that far. And, it's granted. He answered her question because she convinced him enough to make sure he's able to take the responsibility for the better future. Compare it to what happened during Turn 19 of R2. Preparing spotlight, a camera to make sure everyone learns his death, a lot of machine guns, ignoring fact that Kallen is still there--used as a bait because they know he's concerned enough about her, and also the fact that they've traded him for Japan when his existence is needed by UFN, the largest scale of world's peace. Seems like they've no responsibilities about what'll happened later. That's irrational, especially when you realized the one who motivated Ougi to take the coup d' etat is Viletta. It's not "I should accuse him from blackmailing my girlfriend." anymore, it's turned into "My girlfriend is a victim, everything he had done is must be wrong." Viletta playing a "I'm a victim" card, when Lelouch is actually the one who granted her wish to met Ougi and even save his life before getting executed by Guilford. This is getting crazier during the final battle. Ougi : "Look Zero, if we take this together, we can defeat you." Seems like he only pleased by the fact that he's able to defeat Zero. Todo : "The moment you accept the lead, that's the moment you accept the ideals" If you're this smart, doesn't this mean the moment you accept Schniezel, is also the moment you legalize FLEIJA. WTH ! Xing-ke, he started with a praise "Just like Lelouch and Suzaku in one person." But during the final battle, he's turned into a mindless lolicon who doesn't seem to care about FLEIJA being spammed through the entire battle. When it clearly showed that even Kallen is confused about that FLEIJA is being spammed. He's also ignoring the fact that his side had a Damocles, Shen-hu, Mordred, Tristan Divider, Zangetsu, and even Guren SEITEN when Lelouch main power is just Shinkirou, Lancelot Albion, Lancelot Frontier, and Siegfried. He doesn't even think what is the circumstances that can really lead Lelouch, brave enough to launch his attacks frontally despite knowing how weak his firepower really is. It's so broken. I can't stand the ending because of those fact is still exists. Especially with the fact that was Lelouch, Suzaku, and Kallen is actually those who really worked as their hardest to make sure the future is reachable. But, they received their good ending in the most cruel forms they could take. Last edited by Tactics; 2011-07-06 at 03:15. |
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2011-07-06, 03:20 | Link #7456 | |||||||
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Besides, the Black Knights were way too passive aggressive about how they confronted Lelouch. Kallen gave him a chance, while the others went Kangaroo Court on him. Quote:
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2011-07-06, 06:04 | Link #7457 | ||||
SS Bombardment Mage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Midchilda
Age: 38
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When talking about the OotBK and the whole organization being insubordinate to the UFN, that doesn't hold true either. Ultimately their "lawful order" was take back Japan. Does the UFN care about the methods or the results though? One would think they care about the results. What does it matter (to the UFN) HOW they take it back so long as it is intact and not turned to dust. A TEMPORARY ceasefire (especially after what happened) doesn't automatically mean that they are giving up and can't take back Japan. Also, how does a local ceasefire equate to laying down arms all over the globe? If it WAS all over the globe (which since Schneizel isn't in command of all Britannia's forces iirc it COULDN'T be) then it still wouldn't change the fact that the BK aren't tied to a nation. They have a contract to defend yes, and I bet if Britannia were to attack they would defend. A ceasefire doesn't mean you pull up shop and go home, you still have patrols and the like... you just don't shoot someone if you see him. Plus if Britannia were to attack and break it wouldn't that paint them as villains? Don't you think that would be a GOOD for the UFN? How many countries who maybe were on the fence would come to the UFN then? The civil unrest would be pushed even higher as citizens wonder if their Government can be trusted. Quote:
If you think on it, the way it actually worked out they have a better chance to be left in peace. By giving Japan back Britannia opens the door for peace. Keep in mind they only really declared war because Japan was part of the UFN and it's homeland was "occupied" by Britannia. Once that was taken care of... well who knows for sure, but if there weren't other member states who were "occupied" then by them giving it back maybe the UFN and Britannia may not be able to live in peace as 2 super powers in the world? Well for a time at least... Quote:
How much do you want to bet that if he had just informed a few of the higher ups in the BK (like Todo and Ohgi) of Geass (and maybe his identity) that things would have turned out much differently. With Kallen backing him that their wills were their own, how much would have changed? Ohgi probably would have come clean about Villetta, then that whole mess could have been avoided somehow. Todo would have known about the reasons to attack the order, and there wouldn't have been that worm of doubt about "we can't trust Zero". When Schneizel lands and plays that recording they woulda been all "yea? So what? We knew all about that already... now get outa here." (Note they couldn't have taken him hostage because of Anya with the F.L.E.I.J.A. warhead). I really think the biggest reason for the betrayal wasn't the Massacre Princess thing, but rather the fear and shock of learning about Geass. I mean someone (I think Todo) was saying that if it was true (Zero having Geass) it would be a great and powerful weapon. THEN Schneizel goes all "if he only used it on enemies..." and THAT is when things get ugly. If they had known already and had already passed that hurdle of fear... if they hadn't right then thought about the worry that they weren't acting of their own free will and he was playing them all along... again, I bet things would have turned out much differently. A small part may also have been that Lelouch still lead them into battle when he had been informed about F.L.E.I.J.A. being equipped on the Lancelot, but who would believe that until it was also fired. Even Suzaku was all like "you want to do WHAT now?" Once he fired it obviously people knew it was real, but that was the same time that he went bonkers from "losing" Nunnally. If everyone already knew of he went into that, then the seeds of doubt (besides having not been planted in the first place) wouldn't have sprouted like they did.
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2011-07-06, 18:00 | Link #7458 | ||||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2011-07-06, 19:27 | Link #7459 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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One other thing: Ohgi only thought of the trade Zero for Japan thing only to absolve himself of any guilt over betraying their leader. And that quite possibly makes it even worse. Quote:
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It's easy to say that Lelouch could have been more honest, but harder in reality. Remember how Kirihara insisted that his identity, for instance, be kept secret? Or how Tohdoh believes a leader in battle needs to keep certain things classified? While there are certain things Lelouch SHOULD have been more open about, he would have been hard pressed to explain Geass without everyone thinking he was crazy, or to begin freaking out when he began demonstrating it. The always trusting Euphie herself told him he was being silly. Now think how they might react to their leader talking about the supernatural. Also, the problem with the information about FLEIJA was that Lelouch himself couldn't believe Suzaku after the perceived betrayal. It was the perfect setup by Schneizel and Kanon. (That, and hiding Nunnally from Lelouch so Lelouch would be that screwed up until the end, and later, that Nunnally would be used against him.) Again, the Black Knights were too passive aggressive in their issues with their leader's secrecy. Last edited by azul120; 2011-07-06 at 20:26. |
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2011-07-07, 16:03 | Link #7460 |
Haruhiist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: S.O.S.団 Club Room
Age: 29
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There were many points in the show that I loved, and loathed Lelouch as a person, but I allways admired what he did, especially his ability to make the best out of a bad situation,
Spoiler for Episode 22 R1:
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