(L) Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou [WN]

[dragon1412]

i'm more on the side of how far they could go, talking about the abyss, Kouki and co. could probably make it to the rabbit floor and clear it. The problem is : how long would it take for them to reach there ? even if we treat Hajime stats grow with each level + weapon and Yue support equal to Kouki's group fighting strength, the parasite floor can easily wipe Kouki since it play straight into his personality, and judging their group, it isn't strange at all if Kouki accidentaly set off the bomb floor, leave tactics aside, the problem lies in their personalities and approach. And all of this is not counting the Hydra, If you are talking about clearance then Kouki's group will probably be able to clear it, the question is how long and how many casualities they have to make to clear it.

[Kleeyook]

^^ In Tar Level, Hajime used his mineral appraisal skill to examine the tar and discovered what would happen if he accidentally set off electric spark or fire. ^^

Kouki's group definitely doesn't have a synergis to analyze mineral, although they have some tools the knights accompanying them always bring with to analyze mineral. It doesn't mean that they'll know about the tar's capability.

Orcus Dungeon is just made for someone like Hajime, considering the creator is a synergist too.

[BW95]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Hajime has infinite elixir that can instantly heal him from all kind of bad status effect and heal his hp from the very beginning, while Kaori still need to chant for less effect and she also need to heal a whole group of people and limited by her mana pool. Hajime also has ton of skill that's very crucial for his survival (perception, resist status effect, night vision, analyze substance) and his use of those skills will make Mad-eye Moody proud (CONSTANT VIGILANCE!). He also has Donner, with that he can safely engaged the enemy from afar and spam powerful attack quickly. And last is from my own personal experience as gamer, no matter how tough I think my party is after beating the final boss and how skilled I am for finishing the game, the extra dungeon almost never failed to wipe out my delusion by either wiping out my whole party in short order, or at least make the whole party's hp in red zone after the battle.

Are we sure he had an infinite supply of elixir? I thought it was limited when he refused to waste it on Shimizu.

[Awrya]

I think the stone started to exhaust its stored magic after Hajime left the dungeon, but I'm not 100% certain.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by BW95

Are we sure he had an infinite supply of elixir? I thought it was limited when he refused to waste it on Shimizu.

Spoiler for ...:

Calling it infinite would be a stretch, but the God Crystal produced Elixir/Holy Water constantly while it was saturated with magic. It ran out around the time they killed the Hydra, but they were able to save about a dozen vials of it. The crystal couldn't be refilled artificially, and to do it naturally would supposedly take hundreds of years, so Hajime processed the crystal into his new eye and some accessories for Yue out of attachment to it.

The vials are what he has to ration.

[blade82]

Originally Posted by bludvein

Spoiler for ...:

Calling it infinite would be a stretch, but the God Crystal produced Elixir/Holy Water constantly while it was saturated with magic. It ran out around the time they killed the Hydra, but they were able to save about a dozen vials of it. The crystal couldn't be refilled artificially, and to do it naturally would supposedly take hundreds of years, so Hajime processed the crystal into his new eye and some accessories for Yue out of attachment to it.

The vials are what he has to ration.

cant he reproduce some with his synergy's skill?

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by blade82

cant he reproduce some with his synergy's skill?

He can't make more of the crystal if that's what your getting at. He could possibly search for another natural one, but the chances of finding one are astronomically small even with the search skills he obtained. Plus he would have to be lucky enough for it to be saturated too.

It was sheer luck he even found the first one. Or should I call it plot-shield? The crystal/elixir were together practically mythical substances.

[Richocet]

I think I read that Hajime also has Limit Break like Kouki?!?! Is that true

[BW95]

Originally Posted by Richocet

I think I read that Hajime also has Limit Break like Kouki?!?! Is that true

Yeah. It was mentioned a while back when we were comparing stats.

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Hajime is an exception from the norm. He is a case of one in a million or a billion. Just because a one-armed kid with useless class and worthless equipment manage to clear the extra level of one of the most dangerous place in the world, doesn't mean that place suddenly become possible to be cleared by another people. Yes Kouki's group is a group of experienced soldiers, experienced martial artists, Healing masters, Barrier masters, Buffing Masters, Debuff Masters, and Fighters, many able to use powerful attacks, each with instant skills that enhance one or another of speed, strength, defense, magic and resistance and can level up skills and magic ridiculously fast through fights and have been bloodied after fighting through 60 levels of various monsters. But so what. For hundreds of years thousands group of people that's far far stronger than Hajime has challenge the upper level of Orcus dungeon, but even the strongest and most experienced of them can only reach 65th floor. In the end, skill and power can only take you so far. Hajime can survive is because of tons of luck (this is especially important) and also inhuman guts and determination, something that Kouki and his group is quite lacking as they are now.

I think you're confused on what I was explaining. I was never looking down on Hajime or doubting his ability. I was pointing out that Hajime's beginnings in the dungeon and Kouki's gang's current situation are vastly different and there is no reason for them to HAVE to be like him to be able to clear the dungeon.

Hajime HAD to use his sharp intuition and quick wits and lots of luck to survive because he started out INJURED, all ALONE and with only A SINGLE talent and NO battle skills. And he was AWESOME. AFTER he gained numerous skills, magic and powerful weapons he just literally blew away the majority of his opposition and used his potion to recover when necessary. He had to get inventive sometimes early on and help from Yue when fighting some boss monsters, but his main method was to use as much fire as possible and it the in a weak spot.

Kouki's gang will already start off with experienced guides who have plenty of experience with traps and magical monster combat. They also start off with the ability to do massive damage, massive curing, massive debuffing and massive buffing and massive defense. And their abilities will only get stronger as they continue to fight to the floor Hajime fell to.

I know there are numerous outcomes of what might actually happen, including them all dying, all depending on the will of the author. But since the author has shown them as being quite capable in their last fight and after reaching to an impressive level through many taps with no casualties, I fail to see why there is so much negativity for the thought that they are least capable of clearing the dungeon. Kaori was catching people and healing them before their buts even touched the ground after falling over, and had fearless friends who could instantly erect barriers to protect her. I found them quite cool and I am sad to see such negativity against them

[Libros]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I found them quite cool and I am sad to see such negativity against them

Daisuke and Kouki are part of that group and I hate those two bastards. Also most of the class used to bully or look down at Hajime, I don't like that either. I know some of them were decent people(Read: Kaori and Shizuki) but still. I want to see 'em get trashed by the same things Hajime managed to overcome before I can start liking them. Hajime had to work like a dog, lose limbs and ended up traumatized(most likely) before he got his power, and that's understating it. They just got to luck into theirs.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Libros

Daisuke and Kouki are part of that group and I hate those two bastards. Also most of the class used to bully or look down at Hajime, I don't like that either. I know some of them were decent people(Read: Kaori and Shizuki) but still. I want to see 'em get trashed by the same things Hajime managed to overcome before I can start liking them. Hajime had to work like a dog, lose limbs and be traumatized(most likely) before he got his power, and that's understating it. They just got to luck into.

Kouki's not bad, but he's just too dumb to live.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I think you're confused on what I was explaining. I was never looking down on Hajime or doubting his ability. I was pointing out that Hajime's beginnings in the dungeon and Kouki's gang's current situation are vastly different and there is no reason for them to HAVE to be like him to be able to clear the dungeon.

Hajime HAD to use his sharp intuition and quick wits and lots of luck to survive because he started out INJURED, all ALONE and with only A SINGLE talent and NO battle skills. And he was AWESOME. AFTER he gained numerous skills, magic and powerful weapons he just literally blew away the majority of his opposition and used his potion to recover when necessary. He had to get inventive sometimes early on and help from Yue when fighting some boss monsters, but his main method was to use as much fire as possible and it the in a weak spot.

Kouki's gang will already start off with experienced guides who have plenty of experience with traps and magical monster combat. They also start off with the ability to do massive damage, massive curing, massive debuffing and massive buffing and massive defense. And their abilities will only get stronger as they continue to fight to the floor Hajime fell to.

I know there are numerous outcomes of what might actually happen, including them all dying, all depending on the will of the author. But since the author has shown them as being quite capable in their last fight and after reaching to an impressive level through many taps with no casualties, I fail to see why there is so much negativity for the thought that they are least capable of clearing the dungeon. Kaori was catching people and healing them before their buts even touched the ground after falling over, and had fearless friends who could instantly erect barriers to protect her. I found them quite cool and I am sad to see such negativity against them

The class is pretty strong by most standards, but for hundreds of years nobody cleared the abyss even with comparable skills. Hell, nobody had even reached it. If they get that far, they might eventually adapt and learn tactics, but so far their strategies have been pretty simplistic. They haven't had to develop anything better, because the monsters on the upper levels are dumb and tend to just roar and charge.

I'll concede that they probably have the stats and skills to take care of some of the lower levels(although probably not without casualties), but are their "real" skills up to the task when a monster could pop out of the ground at any second to take their heads off? I think they would fold, because they are weak mentally(fearless? yea right), with few exceptions(namely Shizuku and maybe Kaori). They don't even have a real reason to be down there, considering everyone but Kaori has wrote Hajime off as dead.

They also haven't had to clear any levels where they didn't have prior intel on its inhabitants and features. They had directions and knew what to expect beforehand.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by bludvein

The class is pretty strong by most standards, but for hundreds of years nobody cleared the abyss even with comparable skills. Hell, nobody had even reached it. If they get that far, they might eventually adapt and learn tactics, but so far their strategies have been pretty simplistic. They haven't had to develop anything better, because the monsters on the upper levels are dumb and tend to just roar and charge.

I'll concede that they probably have the stats and skills to take care of some of the lower levels(although probably not without casualties), but are their "real" skills up to the task when a monster could pop out of the ground at any second to take their heads off? I think they would fold, because they are weak mentally(fearless? yea right), with few exceptions(namely Shizuku and maybe Kaori). They don't even have a real reason to be down there, considering everyone but Kaori has wrote Hajime off as dead.

They also haven't had to clear any levels where they didn't have prior intel on its inhabitants and features. They had directions and knew what to expect beforehand.

This is especially the case if the instructors and the knights are taken out first.Even the experienced can die, especially if they were overwhelmed by surprise attacks.

[bakapervert]

Originally Posted by Guest2

I think you're confused on what I was explaining. I was never looking down on Hajime or doubting his ability. I was pointing out that Hajime's beginnings in the dungeon and Kouki's gang's current situation are vastly different and there is no reason for them to HAVE to be like him to be able to clear the dungeon.

Hajime HAD to use his sharp intuition and quick wits and lots of luck to survive because he started out INJURED, all ALONE and with only A SINGLE talent and NO battle skills. And he was AWESOME. AFTER he gained numerous skills, magic and powerful weapons he just literally blew away the majority of his opposition and used his potion to recover when necessary. He had to get inventive sometimes early on and help from Yue when fighting some boss monsters, but his main method was to use as much fire as possible and it the in a weak spot.

Kouki's gang will already start off with experienced guides who have plenty of experience with traps and magical monster combat. They also start off with the ability to do massive damage, massive curing, massive debuffing and massive buffing and massive defense. And their abilities will only get stronger as they continue to fight to the floor Hajime fell to.

I know there are numerous outcomes of what might actually happen, including them all dying, all depending on the will of the author. But since the author has shown them as being quite capable in their last fight and after reaching to an impressive level through many taps with no casualties, I fail to see why there is so much negativity for the thought that they are least capable of clearing the dungeon. Kaori was catching people and healing them before their buts even touched the ground after falling over, and had fearless friends who could instantly erect barriers to protect her. I found them quite cool and I am sad to see such negativity against them

The reason why I doubt Kouki's group can survive in the abyss is not that I looking down on them, or underestimating their ability. Its just compared to the upper level of Orcus dungeon, the abyss Hajime at seems to be far more dangerous and deathly.

So far in the upper level Kouki and co is training, the traps seems pretty classic. A trap that you can still survive even if you trigger them, monster that you can find in any rpg game. But the place Hajime at seems to be more subtle and deathly, like something you can find written in manga or novel. A bear that its attack is augmented by invinsible wind blade that can instantly kill you, not reducing your hp bar, many kind of trap that if triggered will wipe out your party or at least creating casualty.

And its true that Kouki and co. manage to reach till level 65 with no casualty, but those floor has already well documented and they know quite well what to expect.

As they are now, they will be wiped out in just a few floor. As I say in my post before, the abyss is not like a normal dungeon that you can find in the storyline part of rpg, its more like an extra dungeon that appear after you beat the final boss that has insane difficulty and you can only beat after maxing your level and collecting all the ultimate equipment for your party.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Kouki's not bad, but he's just too dumb to live.

Doesn't stop me from hating him. If anything it only exacerbates my disgust for him.

[Kleeyook]

Originally Posted by Libros

Doesn't stop me from hating him. If anything it only exacerbates my disgust for him.

Well, in reality you'll like someone like Kouki (or Hayama) than Hajime or Hachiman anyway. You'll completely ignore his flaw because the dude is way more pleasant, better at socializing, your own need to get along with others using someone like Kouki etc.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Kleeyook

Well, in reality you'll like someone like Kouki (or Hayama) than Hajime or Hachiman anyway. You'll completely ignore his flaw because the dude is way more pleasant, better at socializing, your own need to get along with others using someone like Kouki etc.

actually, that's depend on how perceptive or how long you know that person, Kouki is the type that the more you know him, the more abnormal you feel, but then again, he is the type that attract people at a glance with a very goo 1st impression so most people will like him.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Kouki's not bad, but he's just too dumb to live.

I'm hoping that he lives but run into an event that will force him to reconsider his stance.

Even better if it's Urobuchi-style event.

[whitecloud]

Basically change from shirou to archer event?